New Integra 750- impressions & faults

[Guest theop]

Hi all,

I got delivery of a new Integra 750 3 weeks ago after 7 years and 40k commuting miles on a T max.

Good news first.

-I am 400 miles in and i really like the looks of it.

-Love the normal wheel size and the motercycle dynamics. Bike turns properly and is better than a T max (which is a compliment as the T max is a very nice scooter dynamically

-even the universal Honda candy red is actually better than the Pan european/vfr equivalent.

- economy is good although not as good as it says on the tin yet. Im getting 59mpg on the honda, vs 42-45 long term on the Tmax.

Not so good news

- my digital dashboard has overnight lost most of its characters ( when i find how to attach a pic I will). Thats pretty poor quality for a Honda, although likely a matter of bad luck. Warranty calling.

-chain drive. I d forgotten how much i havent missed it. My other bikes (most of them Bmws but i also had a vfr1200 for 3 years) have had axle issues over their lifetimes with me, but i d rather deal with those than oiling and hearing a chain.

- paint has rubbed off (in 3 weeks of use) around the points where my Tucano (must have) blanket rubs the bodywork. It looks worse in 3 weeks than in my T max after 6 years. Again.... Poor water based paint? That I probably won't be able to even claim on warranty... Never mind

-dct buttons: too small and inconvenient to use with winter gloves in manual mode which is the best option because:

-auto D function: changes up too soon, changes down to 1st too early. Crawling at 2-5mph in traffic is seriously worse than a Tmax. This is a serious drawback that alone would have likely changed my mind abt buying one if i d known.

-auto S function: even more annoying than D as it keeps the gear fractionally too long in low gears and changes down too early. I wish there was a gismo to connect it to the engine and customise it.

-refuelling: you have to come off the bike to do. Minorly irritating again.

- Engine performance is a 6/10 at best. Feels and sounds like a single 300. 6k limiter is a disgrace frankly. Tmax has a much better engine that feels and i m pretty sure is as fast for 15 years older tech and 250cc less.

-engine noise is a 3/10 at best. Beggars belief that this is coming from the same firm that make the VFRs. Or the screaming 4 cyl blades etc.

So all in all: A good looking bike that has better ride than a scooter, an unexciting average engine for a bit less money (and worse quality thus far) than a T max but hopefully less cost to run in the long term (the t max is more expensive to run than my BM touring bike per 10k miles).

3 weeks in and sadly if it gets stolen tonight it won't really matter too much apart from the kerchuffle of claiming etc.

Lets see.

Bad spelling due to ipad. Bad grammar due to being Eurotrash...

Edited November 13, 2015 by theop

[Rocker66 34,365]

Hi Theo welcome to the group. I'm sorry that you don't appear to be happy with your new bike. Have you reported the problems to the dealer? If so what was their response?

[Guest theop]

They are changing the dashboard as a warranty item alongside the first service in a couple of weeks. I m pretty sure the paint issue will be blamed on me and my illfitted blanket, which again i dont mind per se as i am not planning to cuddle this bike too much. It is bought as my commuting tool in London. It means 10k miles a year, parked always out, banged and squeezed around in street parking, will only ever be washed/oiled etc at service points and it neds to do that as cheaply as possible (ideally fuel only and tyres when they fail mot). In many ways the fact it leaves me unxcited is probably a good thing as I wont get too annoyed and sad the first time i see it on its side after some drunk London yob has played with it ( my T max was down on average 4 times a year - always by idiot vandalisers). London life.... Some bikes are born unlucky and unloved...

[wozza 967]

Welcome to the forum Leo.

One thing I will mention about the bike is that is was never designed as a performance machine and the redline is in keeping with what the bike is designed to do. Surely you knew before you purchased the bike it only had a 6k redline?

I certainly agree with you that that the bike is ridiculously quiet. It's a twin, at least make it souund like a twin and not a washing machine. The ixil hyperflow gives it that proper twin sound without being the slightest bit offensive.

Edited November 14, 2015 by wozza

[pjm 6,041]

Hi Leo,welcome. Perhaps you need to change your mindset rather than the bike. If you are going to commute in London and not get pinged by speed cameras etc I cannot see why you don't just leave it in either of the auto modes, chill out and let the bike take the strain. If you want a scooter to ride like a courier or like you stole it go back to a T Max. I find my Integra superb and the low speed handling outstanding. Again perhaps you just need to get used to it and employ the method of balancing the throttle and rear brake to good effect. As to wearing off the paint with the Thermoscud I would humbly suggest that may be an issue with the fitting of the skirt rather than the bike. The restrictions on solvents have led to the water based products and that is a not a Honda issue. Chain drive can be sorted with a variety of chain lube devices. Bottom line is that you seem to be expecting a bike to be perfect yet totally abused and unloved. Makes you sound a bit like Sid out of Toy Story. If you look after your bike it will last. If you expect to treat it like a hack I think it a bit rich to moan. Hopefully you will grow to love it.

[Guest Hati]

Clearly the Integra is not for you. Perhaps you missed the NC (new concept) bit. It refers to high torque, low revving engine that is economical to run, especially if you ride it as it meant to be ridden, for lack of better comparison, like a diesel. The NC range simply does not need to be revved. It adds nothing to the riding experience except at the bowser the extra cost of fuel. Doing legal speeds in and out of town, I can get well under 4L/100 Km (70 mpg) two up, if I ride it like it meant to be, even in S mode.

 

Like others have mentioned, proper research before dropping the coin or at least an extended test ride prior to purchase would have shown some of the "issues" you seem to have.

 

This is definitely not the bike for everyone, but if you embrace the concept, it's nothing short of brilliant.

[Tex 36,816]

 

This is definitely not the bike for everyone, but if you embrace the concept, it's nothing short of brilliant.

 

Nicely put.

 

But I have a certainly sympathy with our new friend, Theo. I found the Integra a bike to 'grow into' rather than being a 'knock your socks off' model. And for the first few days (or even weeks, I can't really recall) found it very 'odd'.  

 

The Integra never scores well in road tests (a recent MCN one saw the NC750D put up against a T-Max and a Kymco 400 on a ride from Blighty to Spain and back - and the Integra scored last place, with the T-Max a clear winner). I always thought it was because journalists just don't 'get' the New Concept but, well, just maybe, it's that when viewed objectively against it's peers the Integra simply isn't as good?

 

I've come to really enjoy mine, but one day will change it for something with a civilised final drive. Sorry.

[bikerbampi 542]

Hi Theo and welcome.

[scoot_to_boot 154]

Integra:

• A few mph faster in top speed,
• half a second faster up to 60, and
• 10 more miles to the gallon 
• Stops from 60 in 2 yds less
• 600 quid less

... than a Tmax. 

 

What's not to like? Ok, it's not a scooter tranny, has no serious frunk, and the sound is a bit meh. Still, the better bike hands down. 

[pjm 6,041]

But of course it is not really a scooter. It's a low revving torquey motorcycle wearing lots of scooter style plastics. I was distinctly underwhelmed on my first ride, stepping off of the CBF1000. However it serves it's purpose of allowing me to ride with a dodgy hip and I have grown to love the effortless simplicity of it all. I tend to ride in S mode and just blip it down a couple of gears if I want to carry out an overtake. Give a fair crack of the ship and you to may grow to enjoy it.

[embee 7,288]

Always interesting to read other folk's opinions.

 

As said, the red line comes from the way it is designed, optimised for economy. It is what it is. Sure they could have designed it more like other bike engines, but that's not what it is. If you need more acceleration that the NC can offer (which is all higher engine speed and power means) then another bike is for you. To be honest I can't really imagine needing much more than the NC750 can muster if used in anger, but if you want more then you need a different bike. Yes I have had faster bikes, I know what a 1000cc sports bike is like (totally unusable on public roads).

 

In S it will adapt to your riding, if you get in the habit of using the +/- buttons in S it will gradually move towards what you are selecting. I convinced myself this works when riding in the Alps, using S but upshifting earlier than it was originally programmed. After a while it was doing it without me shifting it.

 

It sounds like unfortunately this isn't the bike for you. The Integra is a bit of an oddity, neither really one thing nor the other. The principal reason I bought mine rather than an X was the much better weather protection, though having done over 12k miles on it including several European tours, it has grown on me. I wish it had a "frunk", a false tank could offer huge storage, but there you are. Tastes and wishes are different, which is why there are a host of different bikes on sale. Hope you sort something out which suits you better.

 

Edited November 14, 2015 by embee

[Guest R120]

I had one of the new Tmax's for a day on test before i pulled the trigger on the Integra (a friend has one) - its a great scooter, but the only things i liked on it over the Integra where the keyless ignition and the better underseat storage. in real world terms the Integra is a lot faster, and will wipe the floor with a Tmax both off the lights, and even more when at speed when performing roll on acceleration - me and my mate had a couple of "races"  as he couldn't believe there was a faster scooter out there than the Tmax!

 

The Integra really is a different beast, yes it styled like a scooter, but apart from being great around town at filtering and nipping in and out, like any other scooter, and of course the increased weather protection, in every other way its a motorbike. The ride quality and handling from the increased wheel size alone put it on a different level to any other scooter.

 

As for the noise, put a pipe on it!

 

I love the Tmax, and whilst the Integra and Tmax appear to be direct rivals, they are actually quite different.

Edited November 14, 2015 by R120

[wozza 967]

Hopefully we haven't put Theo off this forum as he's had a bit of an ear bending from us. I do feel a little bad.

I've just realised in my first post I called him Leo and not Theo -

[Guest theop]

Thanks everyone. Many good points and some facts previously unknown to me (thats what forums are for I suppose, venting aside) such as the S drive adapting to ones style. I will certainly persevere with it (the S drive) a bit more. The other keynote being the "horses for courses argument", which i certainly also agree with. I did not exactly intend to be unreasonably critical of the engine or Honda, but it seems this is what i did. Clearly the latter know how to design engines and therefore the Integra twin is made as is by design and not by accident. I just wish there was more "character". The bmw twins (the 800 not the boxers) are similar engines in construction but theirs have more "colour" how shall I put it... I am not missing the power either. But given its proper design dynamics and full wheels, why not give it all the torque it has plus an 8k rpm ceiling and 10-15bhp more. Like a bm 800 in other words. It would probably destroy their 75mpg claim i guess.

Anyway, i intend on getting used to it, i hope i will - i will give it a good country run on the first sunny weekend opportunity post service and see. I recall back in 2004, 150miles into my first run on my then brand new (just out as a model) GS1200, stopping for a refuel with a mate on his Fazer 1000 ( we had bought 2 Fazers together in 2001 and I had swapped mine for the new GS) and feeling gutted having spent so much money and missing my Fazer. At that moment if he d asked me to swap with him for free I would have done so. 6 years and 40k miles later i sold the GS. It was the best bike I ever had despite a gazillion quality (non existent in those early gs12) problems and reliability issues. It took me 3 months to enjoy it and a year to love.

Btw any clues as to how to upload pictures here? My Computer skills are limited...

Edited November 14, 2015 by theop

[wozza 967]

Theo, I've had 2 DCT machines, both X and S versions. Around town I found D mode a tad annoying as it changes down too late and didn't really offer any engine braking. I think (on a personal level) that S is good for around town and D mode when on the open road - but it's very much a personal thing. I even experimented with manual changing. You will pick a favourite mode in the end.

Edited November 14, 2015 by wozza

[Guest R120]

Theo

 

I would say one essential mod, in my opinion, is the foot peg kit you can get for the Intergra, well worth it.

 

http://www.nc700.co.uk/index.php?/topic/9343-iintegra-700-extra-foot-pegs-mod-what-to-buy/?hl=dzell#entry102842

 

Also the shad seat is a big improvement.

[Guest R120]

Also, just to add, its a common topic on the forum about the desire for Honda to release a more powerfull version of the NC series, with shaft drive - hopefully one day !

 

Will be interesting to hae a go on the 2016 Integra/NC Series which have a more advanced mode sytem with the DCT, i think 3 sport modes and D

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

>snip<

Btw any clues as to how to upload pictures here? My Computer skills are limited.

Theo,

          there's a thread all about that subject in the help forum.

It's better to upload the photos to a free picture sharing  site and then create a link to the relevant picture(s) in your post.

[Guest sykospain]

Glad you've taken a more relaxed stance regarding your new purchase, Theop.  You WILL get used to the different feel of the scooter version of the fantastic low-revving, high torque motor and the auto tranny WILL get used to your style of riding, as the very sophisticated ECU is purposefully designed to do.

 

Just persevere - take your time to blend in with the completely distinctive style of riding this bike benefits from.  Ridden as it's meant to be used, as an unchallenged easy-riding, miserly fuel-consumption, nimble vehicle, you'll come to appreciate its advantages as a general use and commuter bike, and appreciate the vast amount of thought and invention that's gone into its design and sensible price-point marketing.

 

As for 'lack of power' - pure nonsense old boy....I speak as a recent convert to the Honda chain-drive fold - owner of the full S-DCT 'proper' bike version - & as the previous owner of several different heavy, powerful Beemer twins.  It beats the pants off all of them except perhaps the R1200GS Adventure, the very finest all-round on- and off-road touring motorcycle on the market, despite being almost half-Chinese in component make-up, yet ridiculously overpriced.

 

See this video:-

 

 

Stay with your Honda - it costs less than HALF the price of that monster and it'll pay you back in shovelfuls of safe, relaxed, lively, durable transport.

[Rocker66 34,365]

Thanks everyone. Many good points and some facts previously unknown to me (thats what forums are for I suppose, venting aside) such as the S drive adapting to ones style. I will certainly persevere with it (the S drive) a bit more. The other keynote being the "horses for courses argument", which i certainly also agree with. I did not exactly intend to be unreasonably critical of the engine or Honda, but it seems this is what i did. Clearly the latter know how to design engines and therefore the Integra twin is made as is by design and not by accident. I just wish there was more "character". The bmw twins (the 800 not the boxers) are similar engines in construction but theirs have more "colour" how shall I put it... I am not missing the power either. But given its proper design dynamics and full wheels, why not give it all the torque it has plus an 8k rpm ceiling and 10-15bhp more. Like a bm 800 in other words. It would probably destroy their 75mpg claim i guess.

Anyway, i intend on getting used to it, i hope i will - i will give it a good country run on the first sunny weekend opportunity post service and see. I recall back in 2004, 150miles into my first run on my then brand new (just out as a model) GS1200, stopping for a refuel with a mate on his Fazer 1000 ( we had bought 2 Fazers together in 2001 and I had swapped mine for the new GS) and feeling gutted having spent so much money and missing my Fazer. At that moment if he d asked me to swap with him for free I would have done so. 6 years and 40k miles later i sold the GS. It was the best bike I ever had despite a gazillion quality (non existent in those early gs12) problems and reliability issues. It took me 3 months to enjoy it and a year to love.

Btw any clues as to how to upload pictures here? My Computer skills are limited...

Hi Theo I have sent you a PM as to how I post photos a method I find very simple. There are of course others

[Guest theop]

Hi Theo I have sent you a PM as to how I post photos a method I find very simple. There are of course others

Thank you.

[Huskyteer 1,091]

Welcome, Theo! You should find the Integra a totally solid commuter and tourer, and I hope you get to like it better as it racks up the miles. The DCT modes seem a very personal thing; I always have mine in S, but others swear by D! I found the gear changes took a little getting used to at first, coming from maxi-scooters with CVT, but I'm a total convert now. Remember you can have it in S or D mode and still override it with the buttons. Once you get used to how it behaves, you can also force a change with a little throttle or brake.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Huskyteer

[Guest theop]

Welcome, Theo! You should find the Integra a totally solid commuter and tourer, and I hope you get to like it better as it racks up the miles. The DCT modes seem a very personal thing......Once you get used to how it behaves, you can also force a change with a little throttle or brake.

So... A few weeks in and 1000 miles total incl a few Gatwick trips and a 120 miles runabout to some friends in Sussex two up, i am getting there. It always fascinates me how humans we are creatures of habit...

So Yes i am getting used to it, the driving modes become more familiar ( i have gravitated to D with a few manual (usually down) shifts. Maybe the system adapts as mentiond earlier on this post, or the human adapts. I still dislike the final downshift to 1st when coasting to a slow stop at around 5mph, i think its totally unneccessary as one will either stop completely (by which point then it should get into 1st) or roll on at which point the 1st jerks on and slips 1sec later into 2nd anyway, which could have pulled a slow roll on from 5mph anyway in the first place. Anyway, a nuisance is fast becoming a detail. Good.

Love the big wheels, the economy, the stability mid corner two up is beyond any other scooter repproach to be fair, and the reasonable comfort travelling at 80mph on motorway pace two up without too much fuss. You sense it is 90%there at 80mph, but that it could also domthat all day long, which is not something you can say for the Tmax tbh. I mean, i could not comprehend lending the Tmax to darling wife to follow me and friends to France for a week ( she won't have a proper bike), but she can easily have the Integra.

My clocks are fixed under warranty too, i plastic stickered the rubbing points of the blanket and ACF50d the whole machine to winterproof it given the fact it is unlikely to be washed again before its 8k service...

Its a good bike.

[Huskyteer 1,091]

I'm glad you're getting on better with it! And if the Integra isn't a proper bike, then I'm not planning to get a proper bike either

[Guest Hati]

Love the big wheels, the economy, the stability mid corner two up is beyond any other scooter repproach to be fair, and the reasonable comfort travelling at 80mph on motorway pace two up without too much fuss. You sense it is 90%there at 80mph, but that it could also domthat all day long, which is not something you can say for the Tmax tbh. I mean, i could not comprehend lending the Tmax to darling wife to follow me and friends to France for a week ( she won't have a proper bike), but she can easily have the Integra.

 

That is because it's not a scooter Everything but the swing arm is the same as the 750 X and S DCT. The front bodywork is the only thing that makes it look like a scooter, but it gives brilliant weather protection. Good to see it meets your approval now

Edited December 9, 2015 by Hati