Messed up Wheel Alignment

[Guest Quickblood]

Tried fixing chain slack which seems fine now but somehow messed up the wheel alignment?

 

While I was loosening the chain slack the plate on the right hand side seemed to come loose and get in the way plus everything was flopping about in there so I tightened everything up and have left it for the moment & obviously won't ride it.

 

 

 

I assume it's a simple fix but what did I do wrong? 

[Journeyman 6]

I'm new to this bike and when I had to adjust the chain after dealer first service had left it tight due to a few tight spots I had the same problem with the RS adjuster moving when tightening the axle nut.

 

I managed to avoid this by backing off the adjusters a little and then tighten the axle nut just enough to allow the adjusters to move the wheel back and then fully tighten the axle nut. I found the RS adjuster dosesn't move then when tigtening the axle nut. The RS adjuster will always move when turning the axle nut otherwise.

 

Anybody know a better way?

[Trev 18,613]

Looks correct in bottom pic, it's easy for the spindle to move when adjusting, I try to leave it very slightly tight so that the adjuster has to actually pull on it a little. I also find that the plate easily moves out of it's location so needs checking as you adjust each side and retighten the spindle. At least you'll get plenty of pratice with the NC chain!

 

edit: you beat me to it Mike ; )

Edited November 28, 2015 by Trev

[Guest robin]

What you have done is tighten the axle nut with the wheel pointing to one side, so it is not straight and not following the front wheel correctly.

If you have adjusted both sides of the axle the same then the wheel has moved sideways as you tightened it.

Slacken axle nut hit tyre with heal of your hand pushing the tyre forwards. This will tighten both slides. Tighten axle a little, check chain adjustment. If OK then tighten axle rest of way, whist making sure the wheel does not misalign again.

[embee 7,288]

The graduation marks on the part which slides inside the swingarm give a pretty good indication of alignment.

 

I'd suggest starting again, loosen off the axle bolt and undo the locknuts on the adjusters and back them off both sides so the wheel can move forwards. Look at the graduation marks, there are long and short to make it easier to count them..

 

As suggested by others, very lightly snug the axle bolt so it provides a little resistance to movement, then turn the adjuster nuts evenly on both sides so one of the marks lines up with the back edge of the slot, count the lines so it is the same both sides. Then continue to adjust evenly each side until there is the correct amount of slack in the chain, make sure not to overtighten it, you must have enough to allow for it to get tighter as the suspension compresses. The tightest is when the wheel is around 60mm up from fully extended. The required slack when on the stand is shown on a label or in the handbook. If in doubt, set it slightly towards being looser rather than tighter.

 

As a sanity check, look along the edge of the wheels and they should "look" straight (front wheel held straight obviously), bearing in mind the rear tyre is wider than the front, but it should be clear if it's far out.

 

When the chain is nearly right, nip the axle bolt a bit more and recheck, sometimes it will slightly alter the slack as you tighten the axle. Finally tighten fully and lock the locknuts on both sides.

[NCX-Tom 160]

Hallo,

old racer-trick. Put a peace of wood (a hammer in that case) between sprocket and chain. Turn the wheel forwards by hand and the chain gets tension. The wheel will move now forwards until it is stopped by the adjusters. Keep the wheel in position by hand and tighten the axle. Greetings Thomas.

[Guest Quickblood]

So the axle bolt was too loose?

 

Anyway thanks for the responses chaps. I think I've fixed it. The problem started because I overtightened the chain and had to loosen it a bit, when I attempted that the right rear aligner (is that the correct term?) became loose and instead of taking the tension out of the chain as it did on the left, it started moving and flopping about. Anyway I think I may have fixed it but tell me if I'm nuts, I went back and gently tapped it back into place which seems to have done the trick.

 

I then used my cheap caliper to measure the distance the bolts protruded on both sides and they're roughly equal, I'm not sure I should trust the marks on the adjusters now

 

 

It looks ok but now the chain is a bit loose again so 1 step forward 2 steps back.

[Rev Ken 6,331]

When tightening the rear axle make sure you position your torque wrench (I assume you use one!) Is positioned so that you are pulling the wheel forward, no backwards. This will stop the wheel moving back and loosening the adjuster.

When I am satisfied with the alignment using a plank of wood front to back and measuring the gap on both sides (or you can spend money on specialist alignment tools) I do future chain adjustments by counting the flats turned on the adjusters. I don't trust lines or adjuster lengths.

[embee 7,288]

Now I'm really confused.

 

 The abutment plate which fits on the end of the swingarm is completely different on the left and right according to the photos. The one shown on the brake side is what I understand to be an NC plate (except my Integra uses a cast alum version for some reason best known to Honda). What is that black one on the chain side?

 

Also the sprocket doesn't look anything like an NC sprocket to my eyes.

 

I wouldn't trust the length of the stud, there's no reason why that should be particularly consistent, it is not intended to be a reference length.

 

I carefully checked the markings on my Integra when I first got it, and was pleasantly surprised how accurate they were, so I've been happy to use them since. I always check against the taut string method (more accurate than a typical "straight edge", which usually isn't very). In view of the questions you're having I'd suggest using the markings, more likely to be nearer than the stud measurements.

 

If you have a centre stand it makes life much easier. I always test the alignment by spinning the rear wheel and see where the chain runs on the sprocket. If it tends to goto one side consistently it suggests it is out of line. The ideal is that it has no preference as to which side of the clearance it runs when pushed to one side or the other of the sprocket and the wheel spun a few turns.

[Guest Quickblood]

Sorry I should have mentioned that the picture I posted is not my bike just a screengrab from a video illustrating how I measured the bolt. I'll double check the markings again but I think they're ok too. Thanks.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Quickblood

[bazza 3,629]

what a performance!

its an ideal subject for a 2 minute video really

 

The problem is that chains all vary -tight spots- amount of lube, suspension take up also affects tension.

So Mr Honda - if poxy little mopeds can have a shaft- why can't our bikes?

[fred_jb 10,264]

Seems to me that the whole problem with the simple type of adjusters such as on the NC is that they only act from one direction, though from what I can gather some pull the wheel backwards and some push it backwards.  The problem is that the wheel can always move further in the direction the adjuster acts when the axle is being tightened.

 

Surely what is needed is a push pull type system which fixes the axle position from both directions?

 

Fred

[Englishman 165]

Like a rack and pinion type set up

[Guest chicken george]

 

I then used my cheap caliper to measure the distance the bolts protruded on both sides and they're roughly equal, I'm not sure I should trust the marks on the adjusters now

 

I tried this and it was way out...

 

Invest in a dot laser chain alignment tool. About £35 and will be the most accurate you'll get.

 

I always take my sprocket cover off and shine the laser right up to the front of the chain where it wraps around the front sprocket. I'll then tighten the axle in stages.

Edited November 29, 2015 by chicken george

[fred_jb 10,264]

I invested in one of the laser tools, having seen it mentioned on this forum.  Highly recommended.

 

What I do is put it on a flat part of the sprocket on the lower front quarter section, and then swivel it up and down while keeping it flat against the surface of the sprocket so that the beam sweeps up and down the length of the top surface of the lower run of the chain.   What I look for is the beam contacting the same part of the chain at both extremes.  On mine this is more or less along the top surface of the outer links.

 

Fred 

Edited November 29, 2015 by fred_jb

[kharli 100]

At least three reasons bazza , weight ,powerloss and expense ! But i admit my name is not mr honda.

[fat al 199]

hi quickblood, the solution is as rev ken says,after adjusting the chain  if you are behind the bike looking forward you need the handle of your torque wrench or spanner pointing upwards so you push forward on it so you keep tension on the tensioners, it looks like you had the wrench handle pointing down and pulled towards you, pulling the axle back towards you. at least thats what i did the first time.

 

al.

[michael 324]

I agree with the posters offering the opinion of ensuring the sprockets are aligned with a tool, rather than the markings on the swing arm.

even a straight edge works, it doesn't have to be high tech.

 

(I used up some of my tool budget on a Flaig tire pressure gauge and opted for the straight edge chain alignment tool as an alternative. One has to make allowances in some circumstances..)

Edited December 2, 2015 by michael

[Joeyjoejnr 96]

I had to adjust my chain after fitting a lowering kit a few weeks ago. I experienced the same issue.  When I tightened the axle nut the adjuster marking would be out of sync.  Ill take the advice given and try again tomorrow.  I have ordered a laser adjuster but it will be next week before it arrives.  One other thing is bugging me though..... Has fitting the lowering links changed what slack should be on the chain? or will I still go for what the manual says?

[embee 7,288]

Lowering the static setting for the suspension will change the chain slack.

 

As the wheel lifts the chain slack reduces to minimum at mid travel when the gearbox/swingarm/wheel spindle are aligned, then it increases again as it reaches full travel. The factory recommended slack when on the stand is to allow for this variation and ensure that the chain doesn't get tight at the mid-travel point..

 

Best thing to do in your situation is to establish the minimum slack condition. I did this when I first got the bike.

 

I assume you have a centre stand.

Rotate the wheel to see if the chain slack varies much, and set it at the minimum point (keep it there while you do the next steps).

Disconnect the suspension links to allow the swingarm to be raised/lowered.

Raise the wheel using blocks under the tyre until the chain has the minimum slack. On a std set up this is around 60mm of wheel lift from fully extended.

With the wheel chocked up at this height adjust the chain until it has just a little slack, maybe 10mm or so. Obviously make sure the alignment is correct.

Now lower it down and re-fit your links.

Now check the chain slack, this is your setting value for the new links. It's likely to be less than the factory value because it will be part way towards the minimum point when the pivots are all in line.

 

It's common for the alignment to move slightly when you tighten the wheel spindle. There is usually significant clearance between the wheel+spacers and the free swingarm (to allow easier assembly), but this spring effect of the swingarm legs as you tighten it means it tends to move a bit. I minimise this by slackening the spindle only just enough to allow it to move, and using the adjusters to draw the spindle rearwards against a little resistance. If in doubt move the wheel spindle forwards and then draw it back using the adjusters against the friction.

Edited January 28, 2016 by embee

[Mikdent 4,070]

Inexpensive chain alignment tool.

[CFB 4,601]

When tightening the rear axle make sure you position your torque wrench (I assume you use one!) Is positioned so that you are pulling the wheel forward, no backwards. This will stop the wheel moving back and loosening the adjuster.

When I am satisfied with the alignment using a plank of wood front to back and measuring the gap on both sides (or you can spend money on specialist alignment tools) I do future chain adjustments by counting the flats turned on the adjusters. I don't trust lines or adjuster lengths.

Spot on Ken.

The object of the exercise is to align the wheels, which will be much more accurate than doing it with the sprockets.

Anything wide, with a true straight edge, will do.

You could also do the same with the laser pen.

You only need to do it once, as Ken says. Future adjustments should be done by turning 2 flats on each adjuster at a time, check tension and repeat if necessary,because too much on one side will cock it all up.

[Joeyjoejnr 96]

Thanks embee, very informative.  I will wait until the laser tool arrives to adjust

[nabrU 2,294]

On slightly different subject but still within the chain area. Has anyone tried this:

 

http://www.tru-tension.co.uk/

 

[Joeyjoejnr 96]

Lads I spent 45 mins today before work trying to align the chain with the laser tool. I couldn't get it right. The laser would start on top of the outer link but the time the laser shown up to the front sprocket it would be in the middle off the roller. The lip on the rear sprocket doesn't help. I try again tomorrow. Ill remove the rear chain guard and try from the top