first service cost

[larryblag 14,236]

I believe that under (current)  European law, a company (Honda in this case) cannot refuse to honour a warranty unless it can prove that the fault has-been caused, or exacerbated by incorrect servicing and/or the use of non genuine parts. I could be wrong. I know the future value of my bike could be affected by not having a book of Honda stamps but by nowhere near as much as the cost saving by taking it to my trusted independent. 

[Guest sykospain]

Philip - I remember we've been through all this before on the forum and we established that you're quite right. So long as Honda parts are itemised on the invoice(s) and the book has a service-shop stamp on each Service Schedule interval page, the guarantee is entirely unaffected.

A future hard-Brexit may change that of course for people like me.  And much else also.....

[Rocker66 34,410]

On 21/01/2017 at 11:21, Mac750 said:

The reason I don't want to use my local dealership is that I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I don't like the attitude once the bike is sold but more importantly I would like to put my business with a small independent who is trying to offer a really good and caring service at a reasonable cost. He is someone I have used for many years on occasion and has a very good local reputation.

I also have a small independent business and would like to think I give my customers a much better service than the big boys.

 I care not one jot if a large dealership that offers an expensive or poor service goes belly up. If they cannot compete then they need to change the business model.

But at the moment we are held to ransome by the manufacturer and his dealer franchise. We now have the technology to order online through a broker or direct from the importer. ( I remember dealers refusing to service Grey imports from the EU.)

The only down side of buying direct is not being able to test ride, but I am sure that could be sorted if a broker or importer wants our custom. This would break the complacency and arrogance such as I experienced and we could then place our servicing to whomever we wished, customer loyalty has to be earned not expected because the franchise holds a product a prospective customer has a brand loyalty for. 

 

Now to praise a dealership, I have found a dealership 79 miles away who has been most helpful even though he didn't sell me my Honda . He is looking at my future custom with him. If I have to use main dealer services he will get my business until the manufacturer warranty has expired and then if I am in the market for a new bike I will give him a chance to offer me a good deal when the time comes. Car dealerships now have to work harder to satisfy customers both in sales and service as you can take your car to a service garage of your choice. I cannot see why we are beholden to a motorcycle maindealer because he holds a particular franchise.

I will search to see the past posts on here regarding this subject and I will contact Honda UK and enquire if ike a car you can take the serving of your machine elsewhere to a business you trust and what the warranty impact would be.

I will post on here what I find after contacting Honda UK.

So when all the official dealers have gone belly up where do you buy a new bike from and where do the independents get the spares from. If you don't trust you local dealer just use a different one. I live just round the corner from one dealer and about 5 min ride from another but I choose to ride 30 miles to one I trust. If I used the local ones I would have a much wider choice of makes but even this doesn't make me want to use them

Edited January 23, 2017 by Rocker66

[Guest Mac750]

1 hour ago, Rocker66 said:

So when all the official dealers have gone belly up where do you buy a new bike from and where do the independents get the spares from. If you don't trust you local dealer just use a different one. I live just round the corner from one dealer and about 5 min ride from another but I choose to ride 30 miles to one I trust. If I used the local ones I would have a much wider choice of makes but even this doesn't make me want to use them

Have done already voted with my feet and travel 79 more miles in future to GT in Plymouth. As for the future it's already started, Hyundai I understand are now selling cars on line, bypassing dealerships and your car is serviced wherever you wish with mobile assessors in the event of a warranty claim . Daewoo tried something with the Halfords branches some ten years ago , not enough large branches, not enough money back then, so Daewoo backed out but now, well let's wait and see. If some bike manufacturers Snell the coffee.

[Rocker66 34,410]

3 hours ago, Mac750 said:

Have done already voted with my feet and travel 79 more miles in future to GT in Plymouth. As for the future it's already started, Hyundai I understand are now selling cars on line, bypassing dealerships and your car is serviced wherever you wish with mobile assessors in the event of a warranty claim . Daewoo tried something with the Halfords branches some ten years ago , not enough large branches, not enough money back then, so Daewoo backed out but now, well let's wait and see. If some bike manufacturers Snell the coffee.

Certainly wouldn't want to buy on line. I much prefer to be able to try a bike for size and be able to ask questions of the seller

[Guest Mac750]

Many years ago my uncle use to sell American cars to US airmen based in the UK . He travelled around in a commer minibus as a mobile office . The base crew ordered cars from manufacturers books ordered the spec they wanted and the cars shipped from the US and delivered to the air base which was classed as American soil . When the crew was sent home the cars got left in the UK and my uncle bought them for a song. That was in the 1950s / 60s . Nothing is new on the planet.

[Rocker66 34,410]

Well if you are happy to buy blind that is your choice. I still prefer the personal touch. For one thing if I had a problem with a new bike I would prefer to be able to go to the dealer get a loan bike whilst my problem is being sorted than have to exchange a number of emails with a faceless person .    Some years ago I left for work on my ZX9 which was a few months old when the oil light came on. I diverted to the dealer who when I told him the problem gave me the keys to a demo ZX6 and told me to ring the next day. It was actually the sensor that was at fault so all was well. I have told the tell of how a dealer in Carlisle took a lever off a showroom bike to put on my Crossrunner so I could continue my trip to Scotland. That is the sort of service you get from decent dealers. Can't get that sort of service from on line sellers                                                                                                             

[Tex 36,817]

I agree, Rocker. But we're 'old school'. Or maybe we're just 'dinosaurs'? I don't want to buy a bike 'online', a motorcycle isn't a toaster or an electric kettle. We had the best of it, matey. 

[Guest LaverdaSFC1000]

With the amount of dissatisfaction there seems to be from members, of this forum towards dealers, I would have thought the sooner they disappear the better.  

If dealers do not up their game there is only one way the industry will go.

In the nineties I had no problem buying two parallel imports, they were a lot cheaper, with the full knowledge that I was on my own when it came to any problems (there were none).   

I would, personally, like to see a large scale return to an alternative place to buy new bikes.  

[Rocker66 34,410]

And where are all the stack them high sell them cheap sellers such as Motorcycle City now. Good prices for new bikes crap after sales service. Are you honestly saying that bikes back then never had problems? That is certainly not how I remember it. There are certain members on here who claim all dealers are thieves whilst others like me accept that there are bad one out there but also very good ones. The problem is that if somebody has a bad experience they tend to go straight on the keyboard to have a moan but if they have the service they are happy with they are far less likely to post about it. It is the same as when somebody has an incident on their commute they are likely to post it but I have never seen anybody I had an average ride to/from work today. Anybody reading this forum would think that the NC has load of problems whilst we know that the vast majority of owners have no problems. All forums have more negative posts than positive as it would be boring if everybody posted had a trouble free ride today

[Guest LaverdaSFC1000]

I am only saying that it would be nice to have a choice.

I have never been back to a dealer to have any of my bikes serviced.

I can only speak for myself but I do feel that current bikes have more problems. 

Manufacturers seem to pile on lots of tech and some of that tech is not fit for purpose and some is not supported for the conditions that it has to operate in.

The NC750 has a lot going for it in that it is probably the easiest, current, motorcycle you can buy for home servicing.

On the other hand, in my opinion, it is overly complicated with lots of annoying, random, faults that should just not be there. 

Mine has now gone and has been replaced with a V-Strom 650. 

 

 

 

[Tex 36,817]

Nice bike, the V-Strom, I wish you well with it.

[Rocker66 34,410]

5 hours ago, LaverdaSFC1000 said:

I am only saying that it would be nice to have a choice.

I have never been back to a dealer to have any of my bikes serviced.

I can only speak for myself but I do feel that current bikes have more problems. 

Manufacturers seem to pile on lots of tech and some of that tech is not fit for purpose and some is not supported for the conditions that it has to operate in.

The NC750 has a lot going for it in that it is probably the easiest, current, motorcycle you can buy for home servicing.

On the other hand, in my opinion, it is overly complicated with lots of annoying, random, faults that should just not be there. 

Mine has now gone and has been replaced with a V-Strom 650. 

 

 

 

How would we have a choice if all the dealers disappeared as advocated by you? You do have a choice 1)service it yourself 2)Have an independent service it 3)Have a dealer service it. If you had your way this would be reduced to only two choices.

Do you really believe that modern bikes are more unreliable than in the past? If so may I respectfully suggest you take off your rose tinted glasses.

Finally when you get your wish and all the dealers have gone where do we buy new bikes?

[Guest LaverdaSFC1000]

I apologise for upsetting you regarding this.

I think it is best that we agree to disagree.

 

[Tex 36,817]

Of course, all the servicing and repairs that are currently done by dealers will still need doing. So who does the work? Why, it's the very same mechanics you didn't like when they worked for the dealerships - only now they've set up as 'independents'  .

 

 

[Rocker66 34,410]

4 minutes ago, Tex said:

Of course, all the servicing and repairs that are currently done by dealers will still need doing. So who does the work? Why, it's the very same mechanics you didn't like when they worked for the dealerships - only now they've set up as 'independents'  .

 

 

Also where do the independents get the training on new models. Nothing against independents. There is room for both independents and dealers

[Tex 36,817]

Oh! Yes! Absolutely nothing against independents either. But the fact remains that all the ones I know were trained at dealers. Those same dealers who paid for them to go on factory training courses.

[MikeBike 5,005]

3 hours ago, Tex said:

Oh! Yes! Absolutely nothing against independents either. But the fact remains that all the ones I know were trained at dealers. Those same dealers who paid for them to go on factory training courses.

+1 Same here.

 

Some of us are lucky to have good dealers who will look into problems as they arise, treat you as a valued customer, offer you a coffee while they look at the 'problem' your bike and not charge for every little check, screw etc. On the flip side I am then happy to give them my service business and any other purchase of stuff they stock (helmets, jackets etc) rather than saving a few quid and going to for example an independent who worked there, because I feel it's part of our relationship / 'quid pro quo' etc. and also know that I won't be fleeced and indeed they in general also reward the loyalty with a discount on accessories etc.

 

I know it doesn't apply to all and in a motorcyle press customer survey I saw (albeit a bit dated IIRC) 2 of the 10 motorcycle dealers in the UK were the local ones here in Conwy (Colwyn Bay MC and Woods Abergele)

 

I also know of others who tell other experiences of the same dealers but it's certainly not mine and I want to reward the good service and keep them in existence.

[Slowboy 20,406]

At the risk of throwing our friends another bone, what makes a vehicle special compared to other consumer items?, because that is all it is. Yes it's complex, yes it needs some (fairly basic) skills to keep it on the road and safe, but none of it is that difficult really. But really it is just like any other white goods. The emotional argument that it is anything other is the result of good marketing to which we are all susceptible.

There are some serious issues in the UK at the moment with dealers charging astronomical sums for servicing in terms of their £/hr rate.

I am lucky enough to be retired and to be capable of reading a workshop manual and understanding what it means and have the tools and facilities to service them. I used to have a good job that still did not pay me any where near £90 to £100/hr, so now I have the time I do my own maintenance.

the last quote I had from a local dealer who I had used regularly while at work was for £500 labour plus parts for the 32K service, an hourly rate of £90. Previously it had been half that and this dealership had been going for years. I find it hard to imagine that was all down to increased overheads as they had not moved or developed their premises in years.

either they are profiteering in my view or they get so little trade they have to squeeze their few punters to stay solvent.

My friends in France do not pay such high rates they tell me, even at main dealers.

So for now I will do my own servicing and use an independent specialist for tasks beyond my capabilities.

I just don't get it, and to me it seems there is something fundamentally flawed with dealers current business model. From the outside it looks like someone is trying to make a fortune rather than a living, I cannot see that as sustainable in the medium to long term.

End of rant, happy to consider alternative views.

[kayz1 2,928]

My reply is the same as Mikes a i use the same dealer.

Lyn.

[Rocker66 34,410]

1 hour ago, slowboy said:

At the risk of throwing our friends another bone, what makes a vehicle special compared to other consumer items?, because that is all it is. Yes it's complex, yes it needs some (fairly basic) skills to keep it on the road and safe, but none of it is that difficult really. But really it is just like any other white goods. The emotional argument that it is anything other is the result of good marketing to which we are all susceptible.

There are some serious issues in the UK at the moment with dealers charging astronomical sums for servicing in terms of their £/hr rate.

I am lucky enough to be retired and to be capable of reading a workshop manual and understanding what it means and have the tools and facilities to service them. I used to have a good job that still did not pay me any where near £90 to £100/hr, so now I have the time I do my own maintenance.

the last quote I had from a local dealer who I had used regularly while at work was for £500 labour plus parts for the 32K service, an hourly rate of £90. Previously it had been half that and this dealership had been going for years. I find it hard to imagine that was all down to increased overheads as they had not moved or developed their premises in years.

either they are profiteering in my view or they get so little trade they have to squeeze their few punters to stay solvent.

My friends in France do not pay such high rates they tell me, even at main dealers.

So for now I will do my own servicing and use an independent specialist for tasks beyond my capabilities.

I just don't get it, and to me it seems there is something fundamentally flawed with dealers current business model. From the outside it looks like someone is trying to make a fortune rather than a living, I cannot see that as sustainable in the medium to long term.

End of rant, happy to consider alternative views.

Do you really consider your bike as just the same as your white goods? In my case I read magazines about bikes I join bike related forums I watch bike related DVDs and TV shows. I also go to meet up with people with whom my only connection is a mutual interest in bikes. I get a great deal of pleasure from using my bike. Certainly none of the above applies to my fridge washing machine or cooker

 

[Tex 36,817]

Brian, I love the thought of my Integra as 'white goods'  (because that is, at least partially, why I chose it. But it isn't really so, is it?

 

My fridge (a Beko, I think) hasn't been looked at, by anyone, since I first plugged it in about ten years ago. The washing machine (Zanussi, more confident on that one) has been serviced/repaired once in a similar time frame. Proper 'white goods' they are.

 

Not really 'seeing' the comparison, but, as always, enjoying your input.

[Slowboy 20,406]

I suppose the point I was trying to make is that they are consumer products, no more no less and in that regard they are no different to any other consumer durable we buy.

Yes I agree we have an emotional attachment to them, I am no different in that, but It would be interesting to study how much of that is inate and how much is driven through marketing, including peer pressure.

Back to the cost of ownership I cannot comprehend how the hourly rate for service relates to for instance the hourly rate of the technician who carries out the work. I understand profit, but I bet the technician gets less than £20 of that £90 to £100/hr. that's a lot of overhead riding on their backs.

I'd rather support my local independent guy.

I said it was a rant, so perhaps my coherency is not up to its usual standards. Anyone who knows the industry want to comment?

 

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by slowboy

[Rocker66 34,410]

Well my dealer is certainly not a big business and the boss is there most of the time as he actually lives over the shop. All the staff are bike enthusiast and very friendly and helpful. To judge the cost by what the technicians earn is not really valid as there are many other costs to enter in. Business rates electric and possibly Gas bills the cost of workshop equipment interest rates and so on. There is also the cost of buying and running the Van(s) Also don't forget a large portion of that hourly rate goes to the government in VAT .

[Steve Blackdog 687]

On 23/01/2017 at 22:01, Rocker66 said:

Well if you are happy to buy blind that is your choice. I still prefer the personal touch. For one thing if I had a problem with a new bike I would prefer to be able to go to the dealer get a loan bike whilst my problem is being sorted than have to exchange a number of emails with a faceless person .    Some years ago I left for work on my ZX9 which was a few months old when the oil light came on. I diverted to the dealer who when I told him the problem gave me the keys to a demo ZX6 and told me to ring the next day. It was actually the sensor that was at fault so all was well. I have told the tell of how a dealer in Carlisle took a lever off a showroom bike to put on my Crossrunner so I could continue my trip to Scotland. That is the sort of service you get from decent dealers. Can't get that sort of service from on line sellers                                                                                                             

Talking of dealers taking levers off, when my bike was in for repair I paid it a visit and it was missing it's left hand mirror. The dealer had taken it off to put on one of their demos. I got a new one so no loss to me!