Profi laser chain alignment tool

[Guest machinman]

Has anyone used the profi laser tool with success on the NC? I noticed the rear sprocket has a shoulder around the outer circumference and wasn't sure if it was possible to mount the tool correctly, flush with the sprocket.

Cheers.

[suffolk58 2,286]

I have one Stuart and must admit that it's not exactly easy to use on the NC, but you can get a good reading eventually!

I placed the tool on the chain links themselves (very greasy) and got a reading that way.

[MGR1 40]

Has anyone used the profi laser tool with success on the NC? I noticed the rear sprocket has a shoulder around the outer circumference and wasn't sure if it was possible to mount the tool correctly, flush with the sprocket.

Cheers.

 

I have one of those. I can lay it on the side of the sprocket of my 2015 Integra as intended, however the laser beam along the chain is not very useable for aligning the rear wheel precisely. The problem is not with the tool, but with the concept. The rear wheel may be misadjusted quite a lot to one of the sides, but this is barely noticeable by the laser beam along the chain. Possibly the chain flexes to the side of the sprocket, making it very difficult to see that the rear wheel adjustment is off.

 

Better buy one of their proper wheel alignment tools. They have one that fits the 17 inch wheels on the NC nicely.

 

http://www.profi-products.de/shop/de/Profi-Laser-Tools/Profi-BAT/SE-BAT.html

[Juggler 107]

Long long time ago I took simple chain alignment tool and added "laser" pointer to it. Cheap and works just fine.

[mcress 139]

I have a Profi that I use all the time on my 750X DCT - works great and does show just how much the adjustment marks can be out.

[embee 7,288]

Just be a little cautious when using any measuring tool, and it applies to anything. First the tool needs to be checked for calibration. Metrology labs always have strict calibration protocols.

 

With a lot of things it doesn't matter much, it's usually safe to rely on a ruler not to go out of calibration, but something which you assume to be straight or level may not be. Digital levels etc should always be calibrated each time, for example usually placing it on a flat surface and then turning it 180deg, true level is the average of the 2 readings and it can be calibrated to that average (cal function etc).

 

Don't just rely on a chain alignment tool being straight and true without checking it first, you can usually do it on a reasonably flat surface measuring the height of the laser beam etc to be parallel to the surface. Also satisfy yourself that the sprocket face is running true, a visual check by spinning the wheel is usually sufficient. If in doubt do the alignment and then recheck it with the wheel turned 180deg.

 

I found the swingarm/adjuster marks on the NC700 were remarkably good, and now I use these and just check the chain runs reasonably centrally on the sprocket by spinning the wheel. Push the chain to one side of the clearance on the sprocket, turn the wheel a few times and as long as it doesn't always stay to one side again, it has no preference, it's probably near right.

Edited August 19, 2016 by embee

[Guest machinman]

Just be a little cautious when using any measuring tool, and it applies to anything. First the tool needs to be checked for calibration. Metrology labs always have strict calibration protocols.

With a lot of things it doesn't matter much, it's usually safe to rely on a ruler not to go out of calibration, but something which you assume to be straight or level may not be. Digital levels etc should always be calibrated each time, for example usually placing it on a flat surface and then turning it 180deg, true level is the average of the 2 readings and it can be calibrated to that average (cal function etc).

Don't just rely on a chain alignment tool being straight and true without checking it first, you can usually do it on a reasonably flat surface measuring the height of the laser beam etc to be parallel to the surface. Also satisfy yourself that the sprocket face is running true, a visual check by spinning the wheel is usually sufficient. If in doubt do the alignment and then recheck it with the wheel turned 180deg.

I found the swingarm/adjuster marks on the NC700 were remarkably good, and now I use these and just check the chain runs reasonably centrally on the sprocket by spinning the wheel. Push the chain to one side of the clearance on the sprocket, turn the wheel a few times and as long as it doesn't always stay to one side again, it has no preference, it's probably near right.

I'm bang on with the marks, but the chain is biased to one side when spinned, no obvious wear suggesting misalignment when I changed the front sprocket at 14000 miles. My worry is getting the sprockets aligned but then the rear wheel not being aligned to the front wheel.

Any thoughts?

[embee 7,288]

Yes, but unfortunately it's a bit messy.

 When I took the swingarm out of mine to grease everything I did some careful measurements and found the combination of the clearance between swingarm and frame mounts (for assembly), plus the clearance between the wheel assembly and the swingarm, meant that the sprockets could be out of line when it was all tightened up.

 

They can be adjusted to be parallel, and the wheels aligned, but the rear wheel can be offset by perhaps up to 2mm depending on the stack tolerances of the particular machine, there are a lot of components involved between the main frame and rear wheel. In real world practice this probably isn't a big deal but it's something to consider.

 

I made shims to pack the gap between swingarm and frame (in my case 0.7mm on the right hand side) and I fit a similar shim between rear caliper boss and swingarm on the brake side of the wheel. This in effect moved the wheel towards the left by between 1 and 1.5mm, which brought my sprockets into line as near as I could measure. Unfortunately this is something which is individual to each bike, and the design will be such that statistically the stack tolerances should cancel out, but that's statistical, each bike will be different.

 

The only thing you can do is check as carefully as you can that the sprockets are parallel, that's generally better than having them out of parallel, the chain links are able to slide sideways fractionally at each pin so it can take up some out of parallel within reason, but it will tend to run one side. 1mm over the span of the chain isn't much, it's not ideal but it will live with it.

 

The easiest place to shim it is at the rear wheel, the swingarm gap is a couple of mm wider that the wheel assy for ease of fitment. I can't say I like that amount of spring in the swingarm when closing it up, but Honda know what they're doing on this.

[Guest machinman]

That's an interesting and thorough job Murray. I understand the problem now and being a non engineer type, it's probably best to work with what I've got and accept a minor discrepancy (no unusual sprocket or tyre wear) than create a can of worms.

[fred_jb 10,264]

Good point by Murray about the tolerances involved meaning that the two sprockets may not be exactly in line. As a result, using a laser tool to ensure the rear sprocket is in line with the chain run may end up with the rear axle not being exactly 90 degrees to the direction of travel, and the rear sprocket not being exactly in line with the direction of travel.

 

However taking a possible 2 mm lateral error in sprocket alignment and guessing the sprocket centres to be about 400 mm apart, then if my calculations are correct (a big if!) the error is less than 0.3 degrees. I don't think I would lose any sleep over that error, so if I still had a chain driven bike I would continue to use the laser tool.

 

I just set the base of the laser tool on a flat part of the rear sprocket and then tilted it up and down so that the beam ran along the chain from the rearmost links to the furthest ones where it ran over the front sprocket.  I then adjusted the axle position so that the beam always touched the same part of the chain links for both the furthest and nearest links.

 

Was feeling smug about my bike now being shaft driven until I read today on the Trophy forum about two cases of rear drive failure.  I would be interested on your thoughts on this Murray if you are interested in taking a look at the pictures posted.  The link is here:   http://www.triumph-trophy.com/index.php/topic,6159.0.html

 

Fred

[larryblag 14,236]

I remember our old boss getting us to weigh toner cartridges on a set of postal scales. The problem was the resolution, with a full cartridge being about 560g and an empty one about 540g. Almost impossible to gauge anything in between

[White Skark 114]

It happens Fred, not necessarily a problem, it happens to Goldwing, but not that often, a friend had it happen to his year old BMW Adventurer.

So I would not worry too much, just count how many Triumph's are out there and have not failed.

Mike

[Spindizzy 7,109]

All sounds a bit technical. I use a piece of string tied to the back of the rear wheel then note where it just touches the front of the rear wheel and make a chalk mark adjacent to the sides of the front wheel with string taught.

 

When my bike was at Trisakis place he has some proper job alignment bars and my string effort was close enough not to worry about adjustment.

 

If you were able to ensure your laser was parallel on a piece of bar touching front and rear of the rear wheel you could aim at the ground next to the front wheel doing both sides and get the same result.....that's if you prefer playing with lasers.

[larryblag 14,236]

I'm going to be boring again and just mention the single-sided swingarm on the VFR.

To adjust the chain, undo the clamp bolt, hook the adjustment tool into the concentric ring and adjust tension. Tighten clamp bolt. Done.

[Spindizzy 7,109]

I'm going to be boring again and just mention the single-sided swingarm on the VFR.

To adjust the chain, undo the clamp bolt, hook the adjustment tool into the concentric ring and adjust tension. Tighten clamp bolt. Done.

Expensive way to get chain alignment  right, having to buy a VFR   

[Guest machinman]

I'm going to be boring again and just mention the single-sided swingarm on the VFR.

To adjust the chain, undo the clamp bolt, hook the adjustment tool into the concentric ring and adjust tension. Tighten clamp bolt. Done.

I like the sound of that. I do have a soft spot for Crossrunners.

[larryblag 14,236]

Expensive way to get chain alignment  right, having to buy a VFR   

You guys, you do crack me up. I've come to bed cos I can't bear the tension of the women's hockey final.

By the way, on the VFR forum a chap asked what to do if the slack can't be taken up within full range of the adjuster? Another suggested it might be time to replace the swingarm with a longer one.

See, you guys (and gals) are much nicer on here

[Rev Ken 6,324]

All sounds a bit technical. I use a piece of string tied to the back of the rear wheel then note where it just touches the front of the rear wheel and make a chalk mark adjacent to the sides of the front wheel with string taught.

 

When my bike was at Trisakis place he has some proper job alignment bars and my string effort was close enough not to worry about adjustment.

 

If you were able to ensure your laser was parallel on a piece of bar touching front and rear of the rear wheel you could aim at the ground next to the front wheel doing both sides and get the same result.....that's if you prefer playing with lasers.

Agreed - a well known and a 'good enough' method so far as I am concerned - and another method is to use a plank of wood (a straight bit!) as I haven't got a bar that length. As you say it is easy to place it as high on the rear tyre as possible and measure the distance from the front tyre on both sides - it soon is apparent if they are tracking in line.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Rev Ken

[shiggsy 529]

I just got one of these Profi lasers, £31 from Busters. Just put it on the rear sprocket and the laser was shining down directly on to the top of one of the link plates  Rotated the wheel slightly and the laser dot ran up the entire length of the chain in exactly the same place. Dead on, don't know if I'm happy or disappointed  

[Mikdent 4,070]

I've got the old fashioned type with a short piece of metal rod that you eye in with the chain, I think the rod is a bit short to be accurate tbh.

 

I didn't know there were laser ones available. 

[Graham NZ 1,186]

One of the manufacturing advantages of single-row chain final-drive systems is that unlike belts and duplex chains they can tolerate the sprockets being a little out of alignment.  If the top run of a chain can be looked along you can get a pretty good idea of whether the sprockets are happily aligned.  If the are, while using the adjusting marks provided, then that's fine.  Every engineered item has tolerances, single row chains can stand more that most.

 

A more important alignment issue to address is wheel alignment.

[Mike5100 2,061]

6 hours ago, Graham NZ said:

One of the manufacturing advantages of single-row chain final-drive systems is that unlike belts and duplex chains they can tolerate the sprockets being a little out of alignment.  If the top run of a chain can be looked along you can get a pretty good idea of whether the sprockets are happily aligned.  If the are, while using the adjusting marks provided, then that's fine.  Every engineered item has tolerances, single row chains can stand more that most.

 

A more important alignment issue to address is wheel alignment.

Aren't they different sides of the same coin Graham?  If the chain is perfectly aligned and the bike has been designed correctly in the first place and not been in a spill, surely the wheels would be in alignment?  Ah - I think I see what you mean - someone could have mucked up the forks?

Mike

[Graham NZ 1,186]

Mike

The wheels can be out of alignment for more than one reason: damaged frame/swing-arm, damaged forks, incorrect wheel hub-side spacers. On some bikes the swing-arm is mounted on the engine/transmission, which helps ensure chain alignment, and on the frame on others.

 

As well as being in 'plan' alignment, both wheels should be plumb at the same time.

 

Because of manufacturing tolerances, many bikes' wheels are not in perfect alignment but if they look OK, the bike runs straight and the tyres don't show any odd wear patterns, best not to worry about alignment on road bikes.