Wurth dry chain lubricant - is it worth it?

[Mike5100 2,061]

at the moment the answer is yes.

First 1500 miles were done using Silkolene non-fling (ha!) chain lube.  The last 6k miles have been done using just the Wurth stuff, and in terms of cleanliness it's staggeringly good (see my other post).  I have not had any muck or oil fling on the rear sprocket or the hugger or the back wheel.  I have been using a grease ninja to apply it and have been giving it twice round the chain every 300 miles as per Wurth's recommendations.  They also recommend cleaning the chain every 600 miles but I have not done that - I cleaned it at 2500 miles then just now at 6000miles.  But all the time I have been using the Wurth it has been summerish weather and it's really only had 4 soakings the last two probably with salt in.

So the plan is to run it right through the winter using only the Wurth (I am asking the Honda dealer not to touch the chain at the 8k service).  And when it gives up the ghost replace it with a good VXD chain.

I was worried that some links were seizing but on closer examination after cleaning the chain with paraffin, the odd ones that came off the sprocket at  a slight angle all moved ok when I fiddled with them.  All the links are stiffish to move when you use the Wurth lubricant - it's more like a glue than an oil.

Here's some pics.

This is the chain after cleaning with paraffin using the Kettenmax device.  It all came clean very quickly and easily - much more so than when I was using the Silkolene non-fling stuff.

 

This is a typical link that may be starting to seize:

 

And this is the Wurth stuff with the brilliant greaseninja

 

[Tex 36,816]

Thanks for the info and photos, Mike. Be very interesting to see how it goes through the winter months. Wurth do make excellent products.

[Guest bonekicker]

This product can not soak in too the links at all--and yes it's far too dry--it may stop dirt going in and also some rust--but after that--nothing--The WD 40 and oil mix is just great in my book--it soaks in and stays oily --I power wash my bike--and let dry overnight--then soak the chain and all the metal parts on bike--any over spray just wipes off-- put the bike on centre stand --with a cloth on floor for drips--keep turng back wheel at same time as spraying-- just try it and see. 

[Mike5100 2,061]

5 minutes ago, bonekicker said:

This product can not soak in too the links at all--and yes it's far too dry--it may stop dirt going in and also some rust--but after that--nothing--The WD 40 and oil mix is just great in my book--it soaks in and stays oily --I power wash my bike--and let dry overnight--then soak the chain and all the metal parts on bike--any over spray just wipes off-- put the bike on centre stand --with a cloth on floor for drips--keep turng back wheel at same time as spraying-- just try it and see. 

Where exactly do you think your WD40 mix is soaking in Michael? 

I have decided to NOT wash the chain when I'm washing the bike.  If salt and muck have stuck to whatever coating is on the chain (Wurth or oil or WD40) then water or water and soap is not going to wash it off without also dissolving the protective coating or blasting it off in the case of the power washer.  So then one would have to blow dry it and reapply the coating every time.

I HAVE 'tried it and seen' by the way - been doing it for years and got sick of the gunge on the sprockets, the rear wheel rim, the centre stand, and sometimes the tyre.  I think if you tried the Wurth you would in fact see that the difference is stunning.  However, the test is whether this chain lasts any less time than my previous two or 3 OEM chains (which are pretty rubbish).

Mike

[Huskyteer 1,091]

I gave up on the dry lube because I was fed up with people telling me my chain looked dry...

[Tex 36,816]

11 minutes ago, Huskyteer said:

I gave up on the dry lube because I was fed up with people telling me my chain looked dry...

 

     

 

I use Putoline Race Formula. Works very well indeed, but it's chief advantage (to me) is that they're one of the sponsors of the team.. 

[Guest Hati]

3 hours ago, Mike5100 said:

Where exactly do you think your WD40 mix is soaking in Michael?

 

Where do you think it  should soak Mike?

 

Two parts of the drive chain need lubrication. The o-rings to stop them drying and wearing out and release the grease from the links and most importantly the rollers that contact the sprockets. If these rollers remain lubricated both on the contact surface with the sprockets and inside surface on the links, you have no wear. That's where the WD40 soaks in and a dry lubricant may never get to.

 

Here are the photos of my original chain and sprockets at 30000 Km with nothing but motor oil used as lubricant from the Loobman system applied every second tank of fuel at two to three pushes of the plunger. I do acknowledge the lack of salt on our roads. We get dust and water only.

 

 

[Mike5100 2,061]

Hati - if that is the back end of your bike after prolonged use of oil fed via a loobman it is indeed impressively clean and I may need to revise my approach.  I'm using the Wurth dry lubricant because of it's amazing cleanliness.  I am dubious about it's lubricating qualities but I intend to ditch the chain at about 12 or 13k miles anyway so it will be  useful experiment.

I was worried about Michael's comment about WD40 'soaking in' because to me that sounds like it's intended to get to the O-rings or even beyond.  I would have thought the only thing that would keep O-rings lubricated is the grease that's packed inside them or somehow applying silicon lubricant - which wouldn't hang around for more than 5 minutes.

The sideplates can of course rust, and if that rust extends into the area where the O-ring fits against it, then it will damage the O-ring and lead to very quick deterioration as the grease leaks out.  So far the almost invisible dry film that is applied via the Wurth stuff seems to have prevented rust on the sideplates (but the winter will provide the test).  And a quick squirt of the stuff on the centre of the rollers has kept those rust free too.  I am surprised that the Grease ninja does not have a 3rd exit hole so that any lubricant is also applied to this area (as well as the two sideplates)

Mike

[Guest bonekicker]

Mike yes it as to be reapplied every time--it only takes 10 mins or so--and it's also a good chance to check over the bike--and stop any corrosion that may be starting--by not using Wd and oil mixture--I have no rust or tight chain like problems at all--you cannot expect any product to keep doing it's job if you only apply it once --we have to make a effort to stop corrosion and chain links seizing--the bike cannot look after itself.   

[Gaucho 555]

Hi Mike, recently purchased Wurth HP lube and will start to use after next chain  clean up. My chainlube routine is little and often, usually each fuel fill up and when the chain is hot (after journey). I completely agree with you on the crud that builds up on the front and rear sprockets with some chainlubes, so hopefully this product will eliminate most of it whilst lubricating the chain adequately.

Charlie.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Gaucho

[Guest bonekicker]

Charlie any maintenance as to be often--don't wait until it's time for a service--the mechanic will just rub his hands together and get more money out of us for new chains and corroded jubilee clips etc.

And the even more important issue is --I always get full price in part exchange for my immaculate--well maintained and rust free bike.

[Mike5100 2,061]

It does of course depend what you mean by 'often' - cleaning the chain and re-oiling after every ride as Bonekicker does, is to me too much chew.  Wurth's recommendations are to apply it every 300 miles - that's about two  or three rides for me, and takes about 30 seconds with the grease ninja.  And then clean it every 600 miles - which I ain;t going to do.  Maybe every1200 miles would be OK and for me it took about 10 minutes with the kettenmax and paraffin then about 5 minutes to dry off the paraffin resdue then 30 seconds to re-oil it.  

Of course this regime may be totally inadequate - I will tell you come Springtime.

Mike

[Guest Hati]

9 hours ago, Mike5100 said:

Hati - if that is the back end of your bike after prolonged use of oil fed via a loobman it is indeed impressively clean and I may need to revise my approach.  I'm using the Wurth dry lubricant because of it's amazing cleanliness.  I am dubious about it's lubricating qualities but I intend to ditch the chain at about 12 or 13k miles anyway so it will be  useful experiment.

I was worried about Michael's comment about WD40 'soaking in' because to me that sounds like it's intended to get to the O-rings or even beyond.  I would have thought the only thing that would keep O-rings lubricated is the grease that's packed inside them or somehow applying silicon lubricant - which wouldn't hang around for more than 5 minutes.

The sideplates can of course rust, and if that rust extends into the area where the O-ring fits against it, then it will damage the O-ring and lead to very quick deterioration as the grease leaks out.  So far the almost invisible dry film that is applied via the Wurth stuff seems to have prevented rust on the sideplates (but the winter will provide the test).  And a quick squirt of the stuff on the centre of the rollers has kept those rust free too.  I am surprised that the Grease ninja does not have a 3rd exit hole so that any lubricant is also applied to this area (as well as the two sideplates)

Mike

 

That is the back end indeed, but it gets a quick wipe down after almost every ride. Definitely not there to compare though, nor to worry about surface rust, especially with salt applied to your roads. The locals here conducted an experiment on sports bikes used in daily commute. They restricted use of chain lube to WD40 only from the word go. It afforded amazingly long, 30+ thousand kilometres, life of the chains used, so it can definitely help (WD40) but I would probably use it more frequently in the wet.

As far as I am aware the WD40 did not penetrate past the o-rings, wouldn't expect it to.

[Rev Ken 6,327]

WD40 is not claimed to be a lubricant, (read the tin!) 

[Mike5100 2,061]

8 hours ago, Rev Ken said:

WD40 is not claimed to be a lubricant, (read the tin!) 

Yes I was going to point out the same Ken.  BUT if the o-rings are destroyed by corrosion on the inner surfaces of the plates then it's possible that a corrosion inhibitor like wd40 can succeed in keeping the chain going.  That assumes that the only lubrication that a chain needs is provided by the grease inside each roller.  I presume these guys regularly cleaned their chains otherwise grit which would stick to the wd40 would eventually damage the O-rings

Mike

[Guest Hati]

14 minutes ago, Mike5100 said:

I presume these guys regularly cleaned their chains otherwise grit which would stick to the wd40 would eventually damage the O-rings

 

Nope, no regular cleaning, just applied once a week. Again, mind our much drier and snow free climate. The rollers I was talking about are the ones you can move with your fingers, very thin pieces of "pipe" for lack of better word, that make direct contact with the sprockets. The "rollers" with the grease sealed in by the o-rings are lubricated for life (or until the o-rings fail). Your regular external chain lubricant doesn't get in there. 

 

9 hours ago, Rev Ken said:

WD40 is not claimed to be a lubricant, (read the tin!) 

 

I did!!! Look at the photos below!! Maybe the WD40 you get over there is different to the one we have here...

 

 

[Tex 36,816]

My son uses this..

 

 

 

 He swears by it. I have 'borrowed' his WD40 chain cleaner and that is excellent.

[Tex 36,816]

[Mike5100 2,061]

1 hour ago, Hati said:

 

Nope, no regular cleaning, just applied once a week. Again, mind our much drier and snow free climate. The rollers I was talking about are the ones you can move with your fingers, very thin pieces of "pipe" for lack of better word, that make direct contact with the sprockets. The "rollers" with the grease sealed in by the o-rings are lubricated for life (or until the o-rings fail). Your regular external chain lubricant doesn't get in there. 

 

Yes - I think we are both saying the same thing.  If your theory is right maybe this Wurth stuff is just a very clingy surface protectant rather than a lubricant.  It certainly doesn't feel 'slippy' when it's dried (I sprayed some on my galvanised garage door).  In a perfect chain there is probably no need for lubrication between the rollers and the sprocket teeth as there should be no friction at that point.  However there must be friction between the sideplates of adjacent links so presumably some lubricant has to get down there?

Mike

[Rev Ken 6,327]

3 hours ago, Hati said:

 

Nope, no regular cleaning, just applied once a week. Again, mind our much drier and snow free climate. The rollers I was talking about are the ones you can move with your fingers, very thin pieces of "pipe" for lack of better word, that make direct contact with the sprockets. The "rollers" with the grease sealed in by the o-rings are lubricated for life (or until the o-rings fail). Your regular external chain lubricant doesn't get in there. 

 

 

I did!!! Look at the photos below!! Maybe the WD40 you get over there is different to the one we have here...

 

 

Mine says; Stops squeaks, Drives out moisture, Cleans and protects, Loosens rusty parts. Frees Sticky Mechanisms. (Admittedly on the reverse of the tin 'Andy' suggests it lubricates 'joints' on tools and locks, but these aren't continually moving as a link in a chain, nor are they under the same pressure, so hardly an advertisement for a chain lubricant.) However, as is shown above, WD do do a specific chain lubricant which obviously is designed to do the job. 

[embee 7,288]

Regular WD40 is (according to the H&S data sheets) basically a naptha (similar to white spirit) with a small amount of mineral oil, plus presumably the "secret" ingredient (smell).

[Tex 36,816]

1 hour ago, Mike5100 said:

  In a perfect chain there is probably no need for lubrication between the rollers and the sprocket teeth as there should be no friction at that point.  

Mike

 

Surely the teeth of the sprocket grabbing the roller constitutes the ultimate friction? Remember matey, it's not like you spinning your back wheel and watching the chain roll harmlessly around the sprocket. The gearbox sprocket is turning (being forced to turn, actually) and dragging the chain (protesting and screaming  - well it will if it's dry!) which, in turn is pulling the rear sprocket.

 

55 horsepower (in our case, three times that on other bikes) being transmitted through a sprocket three eights of an inch wide.. 500 (plus) lbs of weight being dragged along. No friction? I beg to differ.

[steelhorseuk 1,690]

3 hours ago, Tex said:

My son uses this..

 

 

 

 He swears by it. I have 'borrowed' his WD40 chain cleaner and that is excellent.

 

Ditto. excellent product used along with the WD40 specialist chain cleaner .  Made for the job! 

-Mark-

[Wedgepilot 727]

10 hours ago, Tex said:

I've used that the last couple of times I cleaned the chain, highly recommended! Not cheap though.

 

Their chain wax also seems good, I've been using it on mine and no adjustment needed so far or any tight spots.

 

 

[Guest Hati]

11 hours ago, Mike5100 said:

Yes - I think we are both saying the same thing. 

 

I'm glad.  There is just so much misconception about chains it's actually scary.

 

11 hours ago, Mike5100 said:

If your theory is right ..

 

It's not a theory Mike, it is the reality of motorcycle chains. Take a look at the drawing below. The purple roller is the one piece that needs lubricating the most. It rotates on the blue bush, stuck between it (the bush) and the sprocket. This is the part many people are not aware of. The pin (in white) is quite happy there with the grease the o-rings seal in for it. You can see how little space there is for any lubricant to get in between the roller and the bush. Imagine what a hard time a sticky kind of lubricant (to stop fling) would have penetrating that space...