Wurth dry chain lubricant - is it worth it?

[Mike5100 2,061]

1 hour ago, chris said:

The external part of the chain also needs lubrication.  The rollers contact spots with the sprockets in particular need lubrication,  not just the o-rings. Getting some overspray on the side plates also helps prevent them rusting.

 

Don't you think you're being a little bit excessively compulsive in trying to only apply the lube to the o-rings? A quick spray on the inside run and outer run of the chain gets the lube all over the chain and protects the whole thing.  Job done.

 

Better yet,  get something like a Tutoro auto oiler and top it up every 500 km or so. It lubes and cleans the chain so well you can nearly forget about the adjustment.

Might eventually get an auto-oiler Chris (I love gadgets) - but at the moment this is just an experiment with the Wurth stuff.  I'm trying to stick to manufacturer's guidelines - and I guess Wurth would expect me to do as you say and spray the stuff all over.  But the Grease ninja idea is just to apply the lube in the areas of the O-rings.  I guess one could say 'whadda they know?'  And yes I have had to modify their contraption so it now sprays on to the back plates of the chain.  Oddly the nearside plates have not suffered from dryness/rust at all.  The rollers themselves will get plenty of Wurth on them from the two overhead jets from the grease ninja.  Of course it's debatable whether that stuff will still be on the rollers/sprocket after 300 miles which is the next recommended application.

Mike

[Guest Hati]

I think all lubricants will help the o-rings to some degree, but I don't see how a sticky non-fling lube will ever get under the rollers.

[embee 7,288]

The aerosol chain lubes I've used in the past have had a lot of solvent in them so they are very thin and runny when first sprayed in order to wick into the small gaps, then the solvent evaporates and they get sticky.

 

I use oilers now.

[Mike5100 2,061]

update - I'm getting even more optimistic.  These pics are of the chain at 8.5k miles.  No sign of much rust and definitely no seized links.  Total chain adjustment needed in those 8.5k miles has been half a turn of the adjuster nuts.

I cleaned the chain with paraffin today and I think Stelios's post above that suggests a film may be left is correct.  I left it a couple of hours then used the sidekick airblaster and I could see droplets of paraffin being moved around.  Going to leave it another few hours before applying the Wurth (I know this might not help if there is a dry paraffin residue)

One other thing worth noting:

I think my previous chain maintenance regimes must have been hopelessly inadequate.  For this experiment I have been keeping a note in my phone of when I lube the chain and when I clean it.  I am always staggered that the intervals come round so quickly.  I would have left the clean I did this morning for at least another 3 or 4 rides but the phone was telling me that the last time I had done it was nearly 1200 miles ago.  (Correction - I must have forgotten to put the last 'clean' in the phone as it seems from an earlier post that I did one at 8k miles.  Wurth recommend every 600 miles but I had intended to try 1200 intervals)

Edited December 31, 2016 by Mike5100

[chris 357]

Your comment about using paraffin reminds mer of the advice I was given back in 1973 on my first training course with the RAC-ACU. To never to use paraffin as it contains a fairly high percentage of water and leads to increased corrosion.  Petrol Was ok,  except it was rated as carcinogenic and they then suggested white spirit. 

 

When I need it I've just bought whatever chain cleaning fluid was available. 

 

 

[Mike5100 2,061]

1 hour ago, chris said:

Your comment about using paraffin reminds mer of the advice I was given back in 1973 on my first training course with the RAC-ACU. To never to use paraffin as it contains a fairly high percentage of water and leads to increased corrosion.  Petrol Was ok,  except it was rated as carcinogenic and they then suggested white spirit. 

 

When I need it I've just bought whatever chain cleaning fluid was available. 

 

 

Yes - I have read the pros and cons of paraffin and been told that there are two types.  I think I have bought the right type.  Apart from the fact that its cheap, it seems to do an excellent job with the Kettenmax chain cleaner, as you can pour it in with the supplied bottle.

Mike

[Tex 36,816]

2 hours ago, chris said:

Your comment about using paraffin reminds mer of the advice I was given back in 1973 on my first training course with the RAC-ACU. To never to use paraffin as it contains a fairly high percentage of water and leads to increased corrosion.  Petrol Was ok,  except it was rated as carcinogenic and they then suggested white spirit. 

 

When I need it I've just bought whatever chain cleaning fluid was available. 

 

 

 

Ahh, but 1973 was before they invented 'O' ring chains! Paraffin is one of the (very) few things that doesn't attack the material that the seals are made of. Don't allow petroleum spirit anywhere near your (modern) chain.

 

Use only paraffin or a chain cleaning product (such as the WD40 one) that specifically state they are 'suitable for O ring chains'.

[embee 7,288]

I've always used paraffin to clean chains. I'm really not sure about the idea that it can contain any significant amount of water. I've just had a brief search and can't find any info other than in principle it is immiscible with water. A water/paraffin emulsion can be made, just as with many mineral oils, but it doesn't happen naturally (you have to work at it). I always assumed that the tendency for things to rust when cleaned with paraffin was simply that all surface oil was removed, exposing it to atmospheric moisture. If cleaned with paraffin it is essential that a protective layer is applied soon after.

 

I've learnt to become distrustful of "old wives' tales" or folklore regarding these things unless I can see at least some sort of documented evidence or rational reasoning.

[Spindizzy 7,109]

44 minutes ago, embee said:

I've always used paraffin to clean chains. I'm really not sure about the idea that it can contain any significant amount of water. I've just had a brief search and can't find any info other than in principle it is immiscible with water. A water/paraffin emulsion can be made, just as with many mineral oils, but it doesn't happen naturally (you have to work at it). I always assumed that the tendency for things to rust when cleaned with paraffin was simply that all surface oil was removed, exposing it to atmospheric moisture. If cleaned with paraffin it is essential that a protective layer is applied soon after.

 

I've learnt to become distrustful of "old wives' tales" or folklore regarding these things unless I can see at least some sort of documented evidence or rational reasoning.

Paraffin is pretty close to Jet fuel (Jet-A1). It can hold a fair bit of water in suspension, when the fuel cools it gets drawn out which is why we drain the bottom of aircraft tanks before flight, its rare we get much out but its there. If the fuel warms up is draws the water back in. I would have zero concern using it as a cleaner, as you said just reprotect after.If you want to minimise water in fuel keep the can full and securely closed. Or decant to smaller containers that are full. 

[embee 7,288]

That's a useful hint.

 

I've just looked at the wiki page for Jet Fuel and it refers to a water content standard for aviation purposes of 30ppm, I don't know if that's a reliable source. However even if your paraffin contained 30 times this level, that would still only be 1000ppm or 0.1%. If you applied a litre of paraffin to your chain that's 1cc of water. I doubt it's a real problem regarding cleaning a chain, considering the effects of atmospheric moisture. Forgive me but I like putting numbers on things, just for perspective.

 

Aircraft tanks are a different order of magnitude, you're dealing in tens of tonnes of fuel.

Edited January 1, 2017 by embee

[Mike5100 2,061]

thought I would see what the gunge was at the back end.  Looks like the sprocket is perfect underneath but the nuts are corroding.  I wonder what a new set of those would cost in a better quality

Mike

After cleaning with a bit of waterless washnwax on a cloth

 

[embee 7,288]

I think these are the fellows you need in stainless, auction site number 261218748617 or 370665298925 . Reasonable if you feel the need for bling. Note they are not locking, so need some Loctite. I can find them in nyloc but not with the flange.

Edited January 3, 2017 by embee

[outrunner 4,457]

Try here for flanged locknuts, I use them a lot and the service is good.

 

Andy.