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Crofty

a long electrical story with any advice sought

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Crofty

Hi  I had stripped the body panels off my 700x to replace a front cowl and fairing stay that was damaged. prior to starting the work the bike was running fine and the battery appeared quite healthy turning the bike over and running everything fine. I took the battery out of the bike before commencing work about a week ago when I commenced the work. During stripping the panels I had to break some of the snap connectors, the indicators ,headlight, instrument dial and take the P6 spare one out of the frunk. everything else stayed connected. Anyway changed the parts out and did the air filter at the same time, when I put the bike back together and installed the battery and tried the key in the ignition - nothing. no lights, none of the usual clicking sounds that occur before starting, just dead. So I have checked and charged the battery and it is reading 13.03 volts. checked the fuses and the main 30A fuse, okay, cleaned and checked the earth on the starter motor, still nothing. I have looked at some of the connections that got disturbed during the work, disconnected them and looked for signs of shorting and then reconnected them. So now I am wondering if anyone on the forum has had a similar experience or might have some ideas to try. as  always any advice appreciated. wee pictures to give you an idea of what parts were removed

IMG_20161115_120652055_HDR_zpsa4cbn5l8.j   

Edited by Crofty
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bonekicker

Up's !!!! :BangHead:

 

Brave Lad :console:

 

 

Good Luck :thumbsup: What more can one say????

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fred_jb

Is the instrument panel also dead?   

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Dunnster

This might be of some use,

 http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

 

forum member, Embee, has drummed it into me, connectors, connectors, connectors. I know it's a pain, but rechecking all connections you've disturbed again is where I'd start. 

Im sure it'll be something simple. Fingers crossed. 

Edited by Dunnster

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embee

First stupid question, you have got the battery the right way round?


As a start, check you have 12V (nominal) supply to the main 30A fuse in the starter relay. If no, find out why.  If yes, work from there ............... the other side of the fuse etc.

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Gaucho

Another stupid question, kill switch ?

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fred_jb

I will confess that I once spent half an hour trying to bump start my Crossrunner in blazing hot temperatures in the south of France before finding that someone had fiddled with the kill switch and somehow left it lodged between on and off positions.  (Might have been me when parking it.)

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Tonto

Dont just concentrate on the connectors you took apart . Check all connectors you can find. I broke a wire while working on a bike once twas areal bitch to find.

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DaveM59

If you have absolutely nothing happening when you turn on the ignition, it's unlikely to be something like the kill switch as that still shows signs of life even when off.

Is the immobiliser LED flashing when the ignition is off? If so then you have a battery connection and power is flowing as it should.

This would indicate that it's just the ignition switch function that isn't working so start with the loom from the ignition barrel and check any plugs along the way. It may have just had a tug and come adrift without you noticing. None of the main wiring connectors can be crossed as every one is different plus they are colour coded.

If there isn't even an immobiliser LED working then you have a complete break in power so check the main battery leads and the screws on the starter solenoid where the main red lead attaches. Try bridging the two allen screws on the relay with a stout piece of wire and the starter motor should spin. If it doesn't then either the battery is totally dead despite charging, or there is no connection to earth. Try using a car jump lead from the -ve battery terminal to the engine casing or an unpained section on the frame.

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kayz1

One other thing about these connectors, i have had a pin push out when reconnecting a multi-plug so pop them open again and have a look inside them.

Lyn.

 

PS: that took me a week to find as a qwik glance and i thought all looked ok.

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Crofty

Thanks for all the replies, I am just in from the garage and thanks for obvious ones like battery the wrong way round kill switch etc. So for a start there is nothing when I turn the ignition on, as dave says a complete break in power, so tomorrow I will try bridging the allen screws.The battery is reading 13v so it must be charged, but I have read about strange cases where you get a reading of voltage but there is no amperage there. Anyway tomorrow I will switch batteries with my other bike which is running, one is a 11.6 Ah and the other is a 8Ah but don,t think that will make any difference. I am going to read the links now.

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Crofty

Fred, thanks for taking an interest and hope you are still keeping well. Dunnster thanks for the link, got stalled at the 2nd box as my bike isn,t running, but its a great troubleshooting flowchart. kayz1 I will go over all the connectors I can see in the morning and separate them and push them fully home.  will check that they are okay inside as well.

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Dunnster
43 minutes ago, Crofty said:

Fred, thanks for taking an interest and hope you are still keeping well. Dunnster thanks for the link, got stalled at the 2nd box as my bike isn,t running, but its a great troubleshooting flowchart. kayz1 I will go over all the connectors I can see in the morning and separate them and push them fully home.  will check that they are okay inside as well.

Yeah realised that as soon as I posted it. :wacko:fingers crossed you get it sorted tom:goodluck:orrow 

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Tex

I wouldn't bother swopping batteries (or shorting out the solenoid). If the battery has 13 volts it would light the dashboard. If it had no amps the dashboard would flick off when you applied load (eg starter button).

 

 The fault looks to be in the ignition switch or, more probably, in the wiring/connectors to the switch. Start there.

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Callisidrin

Agree with Tex, even a partially charged battery will give you some clicks and noises when you turn on the ignition. 

I just looked at the wiring diagram. The battery negative goes straight to the Starter motor and then the Chassis (so check that too). The Positive splits and goes to the Fusebox and directly feeds the PCM (powertrain control module) 'The Brain' on two wires via fuses 2 (7.5A) and 3 (30A). It also feeds the ABS Modulator via fuses 5 and 6 (both 30A), the other split from the battery goes to the Starter Relay Switch and Main Fuse (30A) (check this and the connections on this too) This Fuse then feeds the clocks, and fan fuses (11 & 12) and the Ignition Switch and the Regulator / Rectifier.

If you turn on the ignition and get no noises, prime pump or relay clicks, or any ilghts on the dash at all, I'd suggest it's more likely to be the ignition switch, or the 4-pole connector or Main Fuse on the Starter Relay Switch (which I believe is above the Battery ? could be wrong but someone will correct me), maybe it's not seated properly or got knocked while putting everything else back together. If you still got nothing check the fuses and connections to the PCM.

Start at the beginning (the Battery and work out from that. See if you have voltage on the Red Wire (feed) to the ignition switch if thats good check the red/black (return). 

Good Luck, chasing electrical faults can be a bit of a mare.

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larryblag

Sidestand switch? I know it's probably not been disturbed during your work on the bike but strange coincidences do happen.

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Hati

Side stand switch doesn't stop the meter to light up.

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Crofty

Thanks for the continued replies, Thanks tex and callisidrin think I will have to go checking out from the battery, but being as I,m an electrical dunce that's going to take a wee while. One thing I had forgotten was very early on when I had the bike the ignition just died on the road, I tried the key. several times and eventually it clicked back into life. Anyway as the bike was under warranty I took it back to the Honda garage and explained what happened. They put it on the diagnostic machine and reported no fault codes. It never happened for a while until coming off a ferry to Morocco it did it again, it would'nt go this time and in desperation I switched keys (always take the spare with me) and away it went so it has form for dodgy ignition. So I will see if we are getting power at the ignition switch when I turn it to on, quite how you do that may take a while (multi meter crash course applied for). I have checked battery/main fuse/earth strap on starter motor so according to the wiring diagram ignition switch is next. May take a while but will keep you posted. 

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grilo67

Back in September, I went to Portugal on my 750x. No problems except after being there a couple of days, the ignition switch sarted playing up. Most of the time it took two attempts or more to have power on the dash. It would fliker on and off at the first attempt. Tried the spare key and the same happened, so concluded that the barrel was faulty and squarted some wd40 but it continued just as bad. So thought when I get back in Englad, I will visit my dealer as the bike is under warranty. It hasnt done it ever since I got back. I take it that the bike doesnt like going abroad! :cry:

 

All this to say that it's quite possible that your ignition barrel has given up the ghost!

Edited by grilo67

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Rocker66
1 minute ago, grilo67 said:

Back in September, I went to Portugal on my 750x. No problems except after being there a couple of days, the ignition switch sarted playing up. Most of the time it took two attempts or more to have power on the dash. It would fliker on and off at the first attempt. Tried the spare key and the same happened, so concluded that the barrel was faulty and squarted some wd40 but it continued just as bad. So thought when I get back in Englad, I will visit my dealer as the bike is under warranty. It hasnt done it ever since I got back. I take it that the bike doesnt like going abroad! :cry:

That's Brexit for you :)

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Callisidrin

Multimeters, easy. Set selector switch to DC volts usually depicted by two horizontal parallel lines, one solid one dashed. (AC is a sine wave or S on its side). Chęci The meteor is working by testumg The battery voltage.

Connect the black wire to an earthing point on the chassis or the battery negative. The red is going to test the various socket pins to see if you have approximately 12v. The pins are inside the connectors so you have to make sure you get a good connection with the probe, if you don't get a voltage try wiggling the meter probe In the connector. 

If you find no voltage, (check both sides of the connector if you can) then have a good look at the pins and cable and see if a pin is popping out when the connector is put together again. 

Never go by you first reading, always test again just to be sure.

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Callisidrin
1 hour ago, Callisidrin said:

Chęci The meteor is working by testing The battery voltage.

That is what happens when you reply on the phone and don't realise you've hit the button that changes the text language and then don't check what you wrote before posting. I think the real meaning is still decipherable :)

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Crofty

callisidrin, thanks for the tutorial. I think I can understand that, I take it I set it to 20v dc which is what I use for the battery ?  Had to go out today with my wife but if I can get a chance going to get into it in the morning. grilo67 I have thought about the ignition barrel as there is a bit of a history on ADVrider about this, incidentally most folk say wd40 just makes it worse, try a lock cleaning graphite fluid. 

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Tex

Yeah, 20V DC. Use the meter to test you are definitely getting power across the main fuse (don't just look at the fuse and say 'looks ok' that's not how it works).

 

 If that checks out I would look at the multi plug where the ignition switch plugs into the main loom. When I say 'look at it' I mean disconnect it, examine the pins carefully for signs of corrosion and spray them with a cleaning agent of your choice - WD40 is fine.

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Callisidrin
5 minutes ago, Crofty said:

I take it I set it to 20v dc which is what I use for the battery ? 

 

Yes, you're absolutely correct there, most meters now are range auto sensing. You must have an analog or early digital one that you need to select the range for. For future reference, it doesn't harm the meter if you put it on too low or high a scale, you just won't be able to get a reading, if that's the case just change the range setting until you get a reading that the scale works for. So for an analog meter if the dial stays low (to the left) decrease the scale until the needle moves. If it goes right over to the right, increase the scale to get a reading.

For what you need you are looking for somewhere between 11 and 14 volts dc, so a max scale of 20vdc is perfect.

If you suspect the ignition switch is faulty then according to the wiring (as I mentioned above) the two wires are the feed (Red) and the return (Red/Black) If you have voltage at the feed but nothing on the return with the switch on, that could be your problem. If that's the problem try using the spare key see if that works.

 

Happy fault finding :)

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