Engine/DCT issue?

[Guest James Russell]

Hello All,

 

URGENT HELP REQUIRED

 

My Honda NC700D (Integra) which has just clocked 9000 miles has just started making a bit of a noise. Both when idling and when on the move. It sounds a bit rough and tappy. But I don't think it sounds like the engine.

Then this morning I Jet Washed the bike as it was filthy and I lubed up the chain (which I have just recently tightened). As I pulled out from the garage the Neutral light was half on half off. I pulled over, put it into neutral and then drive again. But this seemed to stay. The neutral light was flickering. Just for info, I have since driven into work and the neutral light has not come on. But the bike still sounds rubbish.

 

I now have the bike booked in with Fowlups in bristol. They are totally useless (said they had a loan bike for me today, get there and they don't all of a sudden) and I know they will be a fortune.

 

Does anyone have an idea of what it might be? And does anyone know of somewhere in the Bristol area that I could take the bike rather than Fowlups?

 

Regards,

James

[Tex 36,816]

Hmm, tricky to diagnose from such a distance but did this all start after the jet washing? A flickering warning light could easily be down to ingress of water and the rough running could, just as easily, be water forced onto (say) the coils or HT leads. 

[Guest James Russell]

If it had just been after the Jet Wash I probably would of thought the same. BUT it had been running a bit rough for a few days before that. I thought it might just be the Exhaust (front of the exhaust). Which I wasn't too worried about (quite fancy a noisy one). But now the Neutral light has come on, I'm not so sure.

 

It does sound really clunky and rough.

[embee 7,288]

As Tex says, very difficult to diagnose at a distance.

 

My usual mantra is connectors, connectors, connectors. This sounds a good candidate for that issue. According to the wiring diagram, there is a single green wire to the neutral switch which switches to earth. This wire connects to both the meter (dash) and the engine ECU. If it still engages gears and drives OK I'd guess it may be a problem at the meter connector. A few folk have had issues at this connector.

 

I would try to get to the neutral switch connector and physically ground then isolate the green wire, this would indicate whether the switch is working OK or not, light should go on/off. There are other sensors for gear shift position so I'm guessing the neutral switch is a bit of a secondary system, though it could cause potentially faults if it disagrees with the gear sensors.

 

The other thing that springs to mind is there have been a couple of reports of plug cap/HT leads arcing, which if it causes intermittent misfires will make it sound rough but you should also feel a lot of rough running. The simplest thing to try is a good dose of water disperant spray on the caps and leads, WD40 or Duck oil etc, or ACF50 will work. The coils themselves are tucked up in the fairing.

Edited December 7, 2016 by embee

[trisaki 2,029]

Rough - since tightening  the chain !  have you  over done it -  nc do feel rough when there is something  wrong  with the chain  don't normally  sound rough though unless it's bow string tight 

[Guest James Russell]

The Bike has gone in today to Fowlers of Bristol.

 

I don't think it was anything to do with tightening the chain. Although I guess I will find out later.

 

IF it is something to do with the DCT Transmission. Do I have a leg to stand on in terms of argueing that it shouldn't be packing up after only 9000 miles. I know it's out of Warranty. But surely the transmission should be lasting longer than that. Could I argue the case with Honda. I'm of course looking at the worst case scinario.

 

To make things worse. They loaned me a Piaggio Fly. The blooming thing is tiny. Grrrr....

[Tex 36,816]

Not entirely sure what a Piaggio Fly actually is - but I suspect it beats walking.

I would wait until you have a diagnosis from the workshop before you start composing your letter to Honda, matey. Chances are it will be something simple and (hopefully) cheap.

[fred_jb 10,264]

I had the instrument panel and indicator fuse go once on my NC, though it still ran.  However it seemed to be in some sort of limp mode and the engine was very rough with much popping and banging on a closed throttle.   Could be that you have an intermittent break at the instrument panel connector as embee suggests, which may be causing similar problems, so hopefully it won't necessarily be an expensive mechanical problem.   Mine went from sounding like a bag of nails to perfectly normal once I had found and replaced the blown fuse.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by fred_jb

[Guest James Russell]

Simon: I'm not sure the Piaggio Fly does beat walking. It isn't doing my street cred any good. Not that I had any! HAHA!

 

Thanks for the replies guys. Yeah I'm now hoping it is a simple fix. And a cheap one too. Just found out the other day that I could be out of work in the new year. So don't want a massive bill.

[Tex 36,816]

Bummer about the job, James. I keeping my fingers crossed for both a cheap repair and continued employment.

[Guest James Russell]

Well I'm a contractor. So it was on the radar that something was gonna happen. Just hope to get something sorted asap.

 

 

Anyway back to the bike. Fowler of Bristol have said that they think it's the cam belt tensioner that has gone. And/or valve clearances. To do the work that have quoted me £470. 

 

I can't say I'm too happy about it. Surely cam belt tensioner should be lasting longer than 9000 miles. Do you guys think I have strong enough reason to go in and state I'm not too happy about things?

 

Advice welcomed.

[Tex 36,816]

The NC has a cam belt? Presumably they mean a cam chain tensioner problem? I'm surprised if that's the case! At 9k miles it's still only a puppy..

 

Don't take my word for it though, wait and see what the others chip in with.

[Guest James Russell]

Might of been cam chain.

 

Yeah I'm thinking a part like that shouldn't of failed at 9k.

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

You should maybe be talking to Honda UK if your bike has got a full Honda service history.

 

Edit: Regardless of it being out of warranty.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Derek_Mac

[embee 7,288]

There have been a couple of reports of camchain tensioners needing to be replaced but I haven't seen any analysis of what actually has failed.

 

As for prices they're " 'avin' a giraffe". According to https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-60983-60983-NC700DC-2012-E_04-INTEGRA+700.html the main tensioner is under £100, the secondary (which is very unlikely to be a problem) is £55 odd, plus maybe charge for a coolant change (rad off) so even for the 2 that still means £300 odd in labour. WTF?

I haven't changed one on an NC but I've read the workshop manual of how-to and it's not a major strip down or anything just a few fasteners, and I've done the valve clearances myself so know how much work is required to get to that stage, and I'd reckon with a main dealers' facilities it's something like a 2hr job in total, 3 tops.

 

Edit - thinking about it 2hrs should be more than enough, assuming you're not paying for lunch and tea breaks.

Edited December 9, 2016 by embee

[Tex 36,816]

2 hours ago, James Russell said:

Anyway back to the bike. Fowler of Bristol have said that they think it's the cam belt tensioner that has gone. And/or valve clearances. To do the work that have quoted me £470. 

 

 

I would be inclined to ask for a written quotation stating exactly what parts are required and how many hours they are charging for.

 

Statements like 'they think it's' are worrying. I suspect they don't really know and just want to pull it apart and have a look round..

[Mister Paul 838]

On 07/12/2016 at 13:24, James Russell said:

Hello All,

 

URGENT HELP REQUIRED

 

My Honda NC700D (Integra) which has just clocked 9000 miles has just started making a bit of a noise. Both when idling and when on the move. It sounds a bit rough and tappy. But I don't think it sounds like the engine.

Then this morning I Jet Washed the bike as it was filthy and I lubed up the chain (which I have just recently tightened). As I pulled out from the garage the Neutral light was half on half off. I pulled over, put it into neutral and then drive again. But this seemed to stay. The neutral light was flickering. Just for info, I have since driven into work and the neutral light has not come on. But the bike still sounds rubbish.

 

I now have the bike booked in with Fowlups in bristol. They are totally useless (said they had a loan bike for me today, get there and they don't all of a sudden) and I know they will be a fortune.

 

Does anyone have an idea of what it might be? And does anyone know of somewhere in the Bristol area that I could take the bike rather than Fowlups?

 

Regards,

James

I take my bikes over the bridge to Thunder Road in Cwmbran. It's not that far from Bristol really.

[Reckless 945]

What happens if it's still dog rough after the tensioned etc have been changed, will they charge for the job, of course they will, then they will find something else it may be, another £500 please and we"ll see what it does

[Tonyj 6,907]

My nc x ( same bike , different clothes) made some rough old noises when the drive chain started to wear , baggy then like a violin string only on the move . This was about 9k pushed on with it thinking the chain shouldn't wear out but it was shagged . Not saying it's just this ,( I'm a kitchen fitter so not a mechanic )but you may have a couple of issues and I think Murray is pointing you in the right direction on elec faults through experience.

I've had a CCT go on a firestorm and they make a right old racket . Like the motor is about to fall out . They always seem to use this as a go to option , as historically honda have shit reg/rectifiers and same on CCT . But it's not a big job tbh. When my blackbird made a slight rattle first thing they said was cam chain tensioner . Load of cobblers .changed it , still the same .My 14 reg nc done over 30 k commuting never a whisper in this department . Does it make the noise under load or idling.the tensioner is only a bolt on ,they won't be stripping the head off or changing cam chain , not on a 9k motor unless it's knackered from new. In which case I think you have fair argument on warranty. Providing the service intervals are up to date.good luck anyway .

[Guest James Russell]

Evening guys.

 

So bit of an update. I rang Fowlers and had a chat with a very helpful young lady. She said that they are going to do the valves first. Then progress onto the tensioner if that doesn't work. She also said that they are going to send a warranty claim through to Honda as they agree that the cam tensioner shouldn't be failing after only 9000 miles.

 

All in all it isn't ideal. But I feel a lot happier that they now seem to be trying to keep the costs down. Not sure that would of happened if I hadn't rang them mind?

 

Anyway on a positive note. I played my first game of rugby for a few weeks today (knee injury, getting old) and we won 24-0. Brill

[Tonyj 6,907]

See James told you I wasn't a mechanic :0) . Plus I didn't read your post ref idling/moving . On the whole I've done about 35000 mile on mine and don't  have no Fear of mechanical issues, stick with it.has it got service history?

[Guest James Russell]

UPDATE

 

And not a happy update. Fowlers went on to check the Valve Spacing. That was all fine. So progressed onto the Cam Chain Tensioner. And that is what the problem was. I stated I wasn't happy that the coponent had failed and was advised to contact Honda UK directly. I did. And they came back stating they were unwilling to help.

 

So all in all I am pretty unhappy about it. But the bike is well out of warranty being a 2012 plate, so I guess there is nothing I can do. To make it worse I have just been told that Fowlers won't even have the part for 3 days. So I have to ride to work and back on a blooming Piaggio Fly. Which is TINY and killing my back.

 

Anyway. Rugby Training tonight. Gonna go and beat up some 1st team players.

[baben 11,695]

Hondas seem to have a bit of history with with camchain tensioners don't they? 

[Ted porter 9]

Yes they do have a problem with the cam chain tensioners had on go on a blackbird once, and also had a vtr 1000 changed them as a matter of course as every one was saying they are a ticking time bomb

[Tex 36,816]

Sorry to hear that, James. But, if I'm honest, it was always a long shot that Honda would help on a 4-5 year old bike. I hope you enjoyed the rugby!