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MOT - missing exhaust baffle


Guest jayd365

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Guest jayd365

Happy New Year!

 

I've a 2012 NC700S - I bought it in 2013, and it had an after market exhaust (I think from fuel exhausts.com) - the owner had removed the baffle.  

 

I can't find it now.  And the bike is due an MOT in a few weeks.  Does anyone know if missing the baffle would fail any tests?  I was thinking sound or emissions? Or am I good?

 

Appreciate any advice.  Thanks!

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Derek_Mac

You don't need to worry about emissions as that's not tested (yet), I'm pretty sure noise levels are at the discretion of the tester.

 i.e. If he/she thinks it's excessively noisy then it's a fail, if it really is noisy you can either hope he's/she's hard of hearing or get in touch with Fuel and see if they can sell you a replacement baffle. :goodluck:  :)

Edited by Derek_Mac
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Andy m

+1 Its pot luck/dependent on Mrs. MOT tester having a head ache the night before as there is no meter.

 

I've had an Enfield with open exhausts passed as "fruity" and a  Triumph failed for a "leaking exhaust and strident horn". The Triumph tech couldn't find anything so they borrowed the same type of horn off a demo bike (it was cleaner), did nothing to the exhaust except put copper slip on the studs and it passed next day.

 

If you don't find the baffle, have a go as it is.

 

Andy

Edited by Andy m
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If you were near me, I'd lend you my original can for the mot.

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Take it in for the test a week or two early. If they fail it you then have time to sort it out. The MOT lasts for 52 weeks and even if they issue a fail after 50 weeks the last 2 still count, BTW.

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Rev Ken
4 hours ago, Tex said:

Take it in for the test a week or two early. If they fail it you then have time to sort it out. The MOT lasts for 52 weeks and even if they issue a fail after 50 weeks the last 2 still count, BTW.

You can get an MOT a month ahead to retain the original expiry date. (My car's MOT was done a month and a day before it expired, so only got 11 months last year. (My car was called in for a recall and decided I might as well get an MOT at the same time).

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stephenmcg

Surely this is second mot?

what was status last year

smcg in glasgow

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Guest jayd365

Great thanks.  I'll have a good look in the garage to see if I can find it, otherwise will try my luck.  I was thinking of taking it to a local council test centre in Hounslow, but maybe it would be better taking it to a private test centre? Not sure which if any would be more lenient if needed.  Thanks everyone.

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trisaki

Technically the exhaust is legal with baffle in illegal not in if it is stamped with bs numbers but really if it's not too loud like my fuel exhaust  it should pass - I would probably  pass it if it wasn't any louder than mine if you  brought  it to my wshop or ring fuel and get a replacement baffle 

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Mike5100

... also technically .... surely if you fail an MOT at 50 weeks you are not entitled to consider the other two weeks of the MOT as valid.  We are often reminded that having a valid MOT does not prevent you from being prosecuted for having an unroadworthy vehicle on the road.  In the days before computers who would have known?  But isn't it possible that the linked up computer systems today would flag up to a traffic officer that it had failed an MOT in those 2 weeks or worse to an insurer if you had an accident (because of your loud exhaust :D)

Mike

Whoops - I just looked it up:

"You can still drive your vehicle if it fails an MOT test, provided the existing MOT certificate is still valid (which only happens if you get the vehicle tested before the expiry date of a current MOT)."

Edited by Mike5100
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Mike, not so. The MOT is valid for 52 weeks. Failing a fresh test inside that period doesn't change that. Bonkers? Probably. Some unscrupulous garages will tell you that the 'fail' somehow invalidates the existing certificate (to act as a 'lever' to get get the owner to agree to rectification work) but this is not the case.

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Mike5100
2 hours ago, Tex said:

Mike, not so. The MOT is valid for 52 weeks. Failing a fresh test inside that period doesn't change that. Bonkers? Probably. Some unscrupulous garages will tell you that the 'fail' somehow invalidates the existing certificate (to act as a 'lever' to get get the owner to agree to rectification work) but this is not the case.

yes I spotted that after my post  (shoulda done the search first).  I think my point about insurance may still be valid though.  Apparently the Fail is recorded on the database.  If I were an insurer looking to avoid paying a claim that's probably the first place I would look 'Yes it has a current MOT but it has failed the most recent one'  Hence you knew you had an unroadworthy vehicle on the road.  Of course you were probably on your way to a retest or repair when the accident happened :D

Mike

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Rev Ken
11 hours ago, Mike5100 said:

yes I spotted that after my post  (shoulda done the search first).  I think my point about insurance may still be valid though.  Apparently the Fail is recorded on the database.  If I were an insurer looking to avoid paying a claim that's probably the first place I would look 'Yes it has a current MOT but it has failed the most recent one'  Hence you knew you had an unroadworthy vehicle on the road.  Of course you were probably on your way to a retest or repair when the accident happened :D

Mike

Not necessarily unroadworthy, just illegal! (A loud exhaust is anti-social and illegal if it has had baffles removed or is marked for off road use only, but is hardly 'unroadworthy!) However even a bike with a pass can be unroadworthy, eg if fitted with tyres with too low a speed rating (a low speed rating is not an MOT failure), but ridden with a heavy load at high speed causing a catastrophic failure, I'd refuse to pay if I was the insurer!

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MikeBike
On 03/01/2017 at 08:27, Mike5100 said:

... also technically .... surely if you fail an MOT at 50 weeks you are not entitled to consider the other two weeks of the MOT as valid.  We are often reminded that having a valid MOT does not prevent you from being prosecuted for having an unroadworthy vehicle on the road.  In the days before computers who would have known?  But isn't it possible that the linked up computer systems today would flag up to a traffic officer that it had failed an MOT in those 2 weeks or worse to an insurer if you had an accident (because of your loud exhaust :D)

Mike

Whoops - I just looked it up:

"You can still drive your vehicle if it fails an MOT test, provided the existing MOT certificate is still valid (which only happens if you get the vehicle tested before the expiry date of a current MOT)."

 

On 03/01/2017 at 08:34, Tex said:

Mike, not so. The MOT is valid for 52 weeks. Failing a fresh test inside that period doesn't change that. Bonkers? Probably. Some unscrupulous garages will tell you that the 'fail' somehow invalidates the existing certificate (to act as a 'lever' to get get the owner to agree to rectification work) but this is not the case.

 

Have a look at https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test

It says

Quote

Driving a vehicle that’s failed

You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.

If your MOT has run out you can take your vehicle to:

have the failed defects fixed

a pre-arranged MOT test appointment

In both cases, your vehicle still needs to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined.

and if you've just failed the MOT and have been given a test report that something doesnt meet the standards I think the result is largely the same.

THis is the line taken in the article at https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/can-you-drive-your-car-after-an-mot-fail-if-the-old-test-hasnt-expired

 

But I suppose it has been updated so that for example if it fails on something simple like a headlight, and you go home and replace the bulb, the vehicle is legal. If it fails and you don't fix whatever is wrong I cant see how this can be legal to just carry on using the vehicle.

 

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Rocker66
7 minutes ago, MikeBike said:

 

 

Have a look at https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test

It says

and if you've just failed the MOT and have been given a test report that something doesnt meet the standards I think the result is largely the same.

THis is the line taken in the article at https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/can-you-drive-your-car-after-an-mot-fail-if-the-old-test-hasnt-expired

 

But I suppose it has been updated so that for example if it fails on something simple like a headlight, and you go home and replace the bulb, the vehicle is legal. If it fails and you don't fix whatever is wrong I cant see how this can be legal to just carry on using the vehicle.

 

Surely it is a legal requirement that all lights fitted must be in working order in which case in your example the bike would be illegal.

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Rev Ken

There is a difference between being 'legal' and being 'dangerous'. A brake light out (assuming it is one of a pair) is illegal, but isn't dangerous. The MOT passes 'illegal' items such as low speed rated tyres which could be very dangerous if thrashed down the Autobahn! They cannot start to check whether all the type approval tests have been met, and the MOT is only an attempt to to ensure vehicles are likely to be OK on the road. It is mainly a visual inspection and testers aren't allowed to dissemble bits and pieces so can never be 100% thorough. My only moan is that MOT regs don't keep up with new technology being introduced in cars and bikes.

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Sorry Mike, you've lost me! :D

 

 

Edited by Tex
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MikeBike
45 minutes ago, Tex said:

Sorry Mike, you've lost me! :D

 

 

Don't worry, re-reading my post I think I'm lost myself...

 

I was trying to say that the vehicle has to be roadworthy and if it's failed the MOT it may well not be and you will have been gmade aware officially of the defects. You may well not therefore be able to just continue using it despite it having the previous MOT certificate.

If the examiner fails the MOT isn't that the same as the vehicle being considered unroadworthy?

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Mike, logically you would be right.

 

But who ever used 'logic' and 'government department' in the same sentence?!  :D

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Andy m

All part the license to print money. I declare your bike not up to the required standard. You can legally "take it away", but because I told you it was a fail basically haven't a leg to stand on if you crash or plod (who have not yet invented a camera to do this, so aren't any huge risk) decide it shouldn't be used on the road.

 

"Take it away" is a typical DVSA duck and dive. They can't make you have it fixed at the MOT station (I will of course accept money to declare it miraculously now safe once I've sold you a flux capacitor), so "take it away" could include using a trailer. They won't tell you officially whats a driveaway fail and whats a trailer job.

 

The system is a joke. It needs automated test lanes that read the OBD to see what the vehicle itself knows is wrong and carries out the basic lights, brakes, wheel alighnment tests. The fails from automated tests could easily have fixed criterea, brakes fail = trailer, emissions= drive etc. It won't happen, too many toffee hammer and strident horn jockies deciding who has to buy a bulb or a shock absorber to get this years ticket. It was better than nothing in 1965, but they aren't looking for Ford Angulars with rotted sills anymore and you won't find a ESC fault with a torch.

 

Andy

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I think it's another case of "What is the problem?".

 

The system basically works OK as it is. It certainly doesn't need any sort of draconian root and branch overhaul. There is still a degree of common sense allowed in many of the item inspections in the MOT, that's where the "advisory" bit comes into play. I think we need to give MOT testers the benefit of trust that they do a decent job in a pragmatic manner, which the vast majority do. Sure there'll always be rogues and that's the job of Trading Standards or DVSA or whoever to police the system to make sure it's working as well as it can, but there's no need to re-invent anything or start wheel clamping vehicles which fail on relatively minor issues (chipped windscreen, cracked number plate etc). All the stats I've seen support the belief that mechanical defects are responsible for very few accidents, and seriously defective vehicles are probably quite often outside the legal process anyway (no MOT, no tax, no insurance, no licence etc).

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Mike5100

.... and I don't understand how they make any money.  What's an MOT - £35?  And they have to pay a chunk of that across to the government don't they?  A big dealership that has been forced or chooses to invest to become a solus dealer (like BMW or Triumph) has huge upfront costs (signage, showrooms, engineer training, stock etc) so their hourly rate for labour must come out at least at £30.  Can they do a proper MOT in an hour?

Mike

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Mikdent

My bikes recent MOT took half an hour. 

 

And I got a free brew, more expense for the bike dealer.

 

I hadn't used this (independent) dealer before, even though they're only half a mile away (since I've had the X I've always reverted back to Kent Motorcycles) but due to their professional and friendly attitude they will see my custom again, especially as one of their mechanics used to be a Honda mechanic and is experienced with DCT models.  :niceone:

 

 

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MikeBike
1 minute ago, Mikdent said:

I hadn't used this (independent) dealer before, even though they're only half a mile away (since I've had the X I've always reverted back to Kent Motorcycles) but due to their professional and friendly attitude they will see my custom again, especially as one of their mechanics used to be a Honda mechanic and is experienced with DCT models.  :niceone:

 

 

If you've had good experience there, maybe you'd like to share the name and location for others to also benefit like you and give the independent dealer some trade to pay for your cuppa.

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Mike5100
2 hours ago, Mikdent said:

My bikes recent MOT took half an hour. 

 

And I got a free brew, more expense for the bike dealer.

 

I hadn't used this (independent) dealer before, even though they're only half a mile away (since I've had the X I've always reverted back to Kent Motorcycles) but due to their professional and friendly attitude they will see my custom again, especially as one of their mechanics used to be a Honda mechanic and is experienced with DCT models.  :niceone:

 

 

Yes done right I guess it can be a good loss leader.  This guy has done it right - he hasn't rung you and said it's going to fail on the faulty flux capacitor (only Andy sells these by the way), shall I replace it for you at the bargain price of £300.  He's looked after you and used the opportunity to build a relationship so you will go back.  I've had the opposite experience with BMW cars where they have tried to half nelson me into new shock absorbers.  Never bought a car from that dealership again.

Mike

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