DCT gone badly wrong!

[nigelspencer 15]

I'm still waiting for an update myself, dealer hadn't looked at it yet. The chain was checked by the same dealer only a few weeks ago when it was last in for the '-' issue, which wasn't resolved. I checked the chain was on the rear sprocket and it looked to be on the front as well - unlikely to be that as the engine revs screamed when it happened as it would if you shift a number of gears on a car gearbox. When it happened the bike still had drive in whatever gear it had selected hence I was able to drive off the road. When I tried to restart it said it was in second but couldn't shift it out (the constant clicking as it tried) - still showing 2nd when I got picked up by the excellent AA.

 

Re. the previous post I made about the paddles, turned out to be a load of dirt in the switch - surprised by that but no problems since.

 

Hopefully news tomorrow!

[nigelspencer 15]

lets hear a round of applause for part/bolt number 6 - confirmed as the guilty party in all this. Surely there should a recall as this is looking like a manufacturing defect that bites everyone at some point!

[Guest Hati]

6 minutes ago, nigelspencer said:

lets hear a round of applause for part/bolt number 6 - confirmed as the guilty party in all this. Surely there should a recall as this is looking like a manufacturing defect that bites everyone at some point!

 

Everyone on the 700 bikes. So far no 750 owner had/confirmed this problem.

[nelmo 563]

2 hours ago, nigelspencer said:

lets hear a round of applause for part/bolt number 6 - confirmed as the guilty party in all this. Surely there should a recall as this is looking like a manufacturing defect that bites everyone at some point!

 

Not heard of that - what is bolt number 6? (Is it being chased by a giant, white balloon? ).

[Guest machinman]

3 hours ago, nigelspencer said:

lets hear a round of applause for part/bolt number 6 - confirmed as the guilty party in all this. Surely there should a recall as this is looking like a manufacturing defect that bites everyone at some point!

Any idea of cost from your dealer yet?

[Tex 36,817]

On 8 February 2017 at 22:27, embee said:

I wonder if it's anything to do with that selector drum pivot stud thing which has been reported a couple of times? Item 6 below from https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-71380-71380-NC700XDE-2014-E_17_1-NC+700+X+DCT.html

Can't really think why it would slow beforehand though, was it losing power or something getting tight?

 

Will be intrigued to hear what this is about, like Mikdent says, not heard of this before.

 

 

Neil, it's #6 in this diagram. It's been known to cause problems in the past. No white balloons as far as I know..

Edited February 15, 2017 by Tex

[ste7ios 469]

If I'm not mistaken, the part number of this part is different in 2016 750 models. That means changes but only for the latest models. Sadly, there are no changes in previous models...

[nigelspencer 15]

The cost is £218 to fix I think they said, working on it now

[Guest machinman]

6 minutes ago, nigelspencer said:

The cost is £218 to fix I think they said, working on it now

Not the end of the world then, but mostly labour I presume.

[ste7ios 469]

Changing only this part should not be more than 40€. The cost of the part is 8.72£. Unless they're going to change more parts...

 

Please try to get as many details as you can. (Parts & repair time)

Edited February 15, 2017 by ste7ios

[nigelspencer 15]

I'll find out more in due course

[wingrider.steve 960]

1 hour ago, ste7ios said:

If I'm not mistaken, the part number of this part is different in 2016 750 models. That means changes but only for the latest models. Sadly, there are no changes in previous models...

According to my parts fiche(s) that bolt was changed on the 2014 models.

[Tonyj 6,907]

1 hour ago, ste7ios said:

Changing only this part should not be more than 40€. The cost of the part is 8.72£. Unless they're going to change more parts...

 

Please try to get as many details as you can. (Parts & repair time)

 

Stellios you can't get a coffee and a sandwich in London for €40 . Let alone a dealer to fix it :0)

[Guest machinman]

1 hour ago, wingrider.steve said:

According to my parts fiche(s) that bolt was changed on the 2014 models.

I hope so😊

[ste7ios 469]

I knew that London wasn't cheap but I've no words!

 

40-50€ is just one price here in Athens. It seems that the engineers have a scanner, and if they smell money in your pockets they're adjusting their prices accordingly!

 

Anyway, apart from labor cost, parts & repair time will be really useful for the rest of us, to do our math! (and probably any DYI plans).

 

[Slowboy 20,429]

On 12/02/2017 at 20:16, phantom309 said:

honest answer is i don't know. maybe something was not quite straight an running it realined it straight.? causing it to jump off...?  i do know the chain was knackered . but as selling it the day after it happened , the shop could buy the new one not me ...

One careful owner😱

[Guest theop]

3 hours ago, ste7ios said:

I knew that London wasn't cheap but I've no words!

 

40-50€ is just one price here in Athens. It seems that the engineers have a scanner, and if they smell money in your pockets they're adjusting their prices accordingly!

 

Anyway, apart from labor cost, parts & repair time will be really useful for the rest of us, to do our math! (and probably any DYI plans).

 

Stelios, you are talking Athens labour prices. London labour is between (Eur equivalent) 80-160 (depends on the brand) plus vat. A standard service for oil and filter on my Integra 750 in London costs eur 300.

 

its a bit like comparing the price of a drink in a bar in Mykonos vs Mesologgi.

[nelmo 563]

On 2/15/2017 at 14:57, Tex said:

 

Neil, it's #6 in this diagram. It's been known to cause problems in the past. No white balloons as far as I know..

 

Aha, DCT only, yeah? I'm in the clear...

[Rocker66 34,437]

2 hours ago, nelmo said:

 

Aha, DCT only, yeah? I'm in the clear...

I'm glad you posted that and not me. You will probably get away with it

[nelmo 563]

17 hours ago, Rocker66 said:

I'm glad you posted that and not me. You will probably get away with it

 

Don't try drag me into the DCT/no-DCT debate  - I purely meant that I don't need to worry - I was looking at the diagram posted and trying to work out where the heck it was on my bike, when it suddenly dawned on me that it was part of the DCT (yes, I had forgotten the subject of this whole thread, which should have made it obvious as well ).

Edited February 17, 2017 by nelmo

[Rocker66 34,437]

1 hour ago, nelmo said:

 

Don't try drag me into the DCT/no-DCT debate  - I purely meant that I don't need to worry - I was looking at the diagram posted and trying to work out where the heck it was on my bike, when it suddenly dawned on me that it was part of the DCT (yes, I had forgotten the subject of this whole thread, which should have made it obvious as well ).

FFS not dragging anybody into anything. Again I dare to post on a DCT related post and get jumped on despite the fact it was a light hearted comment which in no way was anti DCT. I have made it quite clear in the past I have NOTHING against DCT other than it is not for ME. It would appear that everyone's opinion on the subject is valid and welcome except mine.

[embee 7,288]

3 minutes ago, Rocker66 said:

......I dare to post on a DCT related post and get jumped on despite the fact it was a light hearted comment .......

I fully agree Rocker, it's so important to recognise when things are said as "light hearted comments".

 

Back to the subject, it's interesting that the pin in question, part no. 23415-HA0-000 has been in use in dozens of different Honda models for a long time, and was used in the 700 DCT and also up to 2015 model 750 DCT. See https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/microfiches-recherche_piece-24315-HA0-000.html 

Strangely the fault seems to affect mainly early 700 DCT and seemingly mostly Integra models. Can we suspect a batch issue (material/heat treatment etc), or possibly a process issue (tightening etc)? Did they send a whole batch of early Integra engines down the line together for example (they differ from the S/X versions in colour of casings).

 

Whatever is behind this, I think we've seen sufficient examples to recognise that this is a real issue affecting a relatively short production series and as such is significant.

 

My bike falls into the general time bracket affected so I intend to change this part as a matter of course before I head off on another Euro tour, even though it's a tedious job to do. As far as I can see from the manual there's no difficult jobs, just time consuming especially with the bodywork. As/when I get this done I'll report back what I find. Since newer models don't seem to have the issue I'm happy to just order a new part from Honda and fit what comes, if a batch issue it's highly unlikely there are any 2012 manufactured components still in stock.

[Guest DervMan]

1 minute ago, embee said:

My bike falls into the general time bracket affected so I intend to change this part as a matter of course before I head off on another Euro tour, even though it's a tedious job to do. As far as I can see from the manual there's no difficult jobs, just time consuming especially with the bodywork. As/when I get this done I'll report back what I find. Since newer models don't seem to have the issue I'm happy to just order a new part from Honda and fit what comes, if a batch issue it's highly unlikely there are any 2012 manufactured components still in stock.

 

I'm assuming this involves a gearbox strip?

[embee 7,288]

Not exactly. It needs the shift motor on the left side to be removed, then the case cover containing the reduction drive for the shift mechanism. On the right side the engine side case comes off (various wires to disconnect from oil pressure sensors etc), you unload the split primary gear spring loading with a screwdriver and a suitable m6 bolt in a hole (I suggest using a really long one so you don't forget it's in there), then the dual clutch assembly comes off (as far as I can see this slips off a splined shaft as a complete assembly, no need to strip the lump), then you get access to the shift mechanism. Withdraw the selector operating shaft, which is why you need to open the selector motor case on the other side, then simply take off the selector pawl/spring gubbins and remove the offending pin. Reassembly is the proverbial reverse.

 

As said, a bit tedious and time consuming but no really tricky stuff like pulling hubs off tapers etc.

 

I recall other instances of this have found damaged pawls and/or springs, but that's a case of see what you find when in there, unless you feel like getting spare pawls in case.

 

As usual the manual says replace all the O-rings, but that could add up to a lot of cash even at just a few ££ each. I'll see if they are in good condition first, my engine has only done around 20k miles so should still be fine I hope. There's a short oil transfer pipe with 2 O-rings which will be well worth inspecting carefully. I'll have to go through the list of things to decide what to plan to replace and what to hopefully re-use.

If you plan doing this job it's almost essential to get access to the workshop manual to make sure you don't miss anything (like unloading the split primary gear for example, I wouldn't have automatically thought of that one).

Edited February 17, 2017 by embee

[nelmo 563]

1 hour ago, Rocker66 said:

FFS not dragging anybody into anything. Again I dare to post on a DCT related post and get jumped on despite the fact it was a light hearted comment which in no way was anti DCT. I have made it quite clear in the past I have NOTHING against DCT other than it is not for ME. It would appear that everyone's opinion on the subject is valid and welcome except mine.

 

I'll see your FFS and raise you a double FFS - please note the smiley-face thingy after my comment - I knew you were joking and I was joking in return...