First service at 600 miles

[alhendo1 3,031]

Hi folks....a quick question for you please. ...how many miles over the 600 can you go without affecting /invalidating the warranty. ...anyone know. Thanks in advance. Alan.

[CFB 4,601]

So long as it is done within a reasonable mileage of the 600 it shouldn't be an issue.

Probably best to get it done before 700 or thereabouts, if you can.

Edited May 25, 2017 by CFB

[Defender 3,834]

Certainly before you can start using full throttle under a heavy load.

It's mainly the oil that gets changed at the first service, it's not meant to be run for too many miles.

If in doubt ask your Honda dealer?

 

[Andy m 23,473]

In mechanical terms I wouldn't worry, its probably another 600.

 

If the dealer can't keep you mobile I'd offer them the choice of servicing it before 700 and stamping the book, letting an independent of your choice do it and stamp the book as though the dealer did it, loan you a bike or give you your money back. I think I spent three hours last month working for Hurley-Pugh after a similar conversation. At least thats what the warranty record on their computer system will show after their mechanic wasn't available.

 

Andy

[alhendo1 3,031]

Thanks all.....it's booked in for next week so that'll take it up to around the 700 mark....I kind of thought that would be the parameters but just wanted to check....cheers for the replies. 

[Tad 53]

I did my first service myself at 680 miles, two filters and engine oil changed so I saved more than £100  as well as the hassle of taking the bike to a dealer and hanging around.

 

I remember the last first service on my previous bike when there was an item on the bill for £6 for grease (what for?) plus one and a half hours for labour, WTF.

[PoppetM 16,831]

Mine went in at 800, and then they failed to carry it out correctly and refunded me the entire cost when I complained.  Not convinced the oil was changed as when it was checked it was higher than it should have been so suggests they may have just topped it up. 

[Defender 3,834]

1 hour ago, PoppetM said:

Mine went in at 800, and then they failed to carry it out correctly and refunded me the entire cost when I complained.  Not convinced the oil was changed as when it was checked it was higher than it should have been so suggests they may have just topped it up. 

 

The colour of the oil would be a good indication of if it was changed or not?

I hope they did change it as the initial oil is designed to bed the engine and transmission in, so needs to be changing to take all the tiny bits of debris away.

 

[Andy m 23,473]

You should see what came out of the Hurley-Pugh at 600 miles

 

 

Andy

[horobags 905]

23 hours ago, Defender said:

Certainly before you can start using full throttle under a heavy load.

It's mainly the oil that gets changed at the first service, it's not meant to be run for too many miles.

If in doubt ask your Honda dealer?

 

you can use full throttle after 300 miles, as its ran in by then. Going up to around 800 miles to the first service wont do any damage.

[alhendo1 3,031]

8 hours ago, Tad said:

I did my first service myself at 680 miles, two filters and engine oil changed so I saved more than £100  as well as the hassle of taking the bike to a dealer and hanging around.

 

I remember the last first service on my previous bike when there was an item on the bill for £6 for grease (what for?) plus one and a half hours for labour, WTF.

Sorry if this is a daft question....wouldn't that invalidate the warranty?...I thought the first service had to be carried out by a bike dealer/garage. 

[Spindizzy 7,109]

3 hours ago, Andy m said:

You should see what came out of the Hurley-Pugh at 600 miles

 

 

Andy

You didn't take that out did you? Its supposed to be there. Specially formulated tolerance and clearances filler with added lapping polish to take off those machining edges 

 

Highly technical stuff

[Tad 53]

2 hours ago, alhendo1 said:

Sorry if this is a daft question....wouldn't that invalidate the warranty?...I thought the first service had to be carried out by a bike dealer/garage. 

 

Nope. In the service book it says:

"It is your responsibility to ensure that services are performed at the specified period and the service record is appropriately endorsed"

 

So that is what I did. I carefully filled in the service book, noting the type of oil and filters used, and signed it in my best hand!

[giley 458]

The exemption for non dealer servicing an waranty only applies to cars, in the rulling it did not cover other types of vehicle. So diy or non desler servicing of your bikw will invalidate waranty... whatever the waranty is worth!!

Edited May 26, 2017 by giley
Sryy for tipos :-)

[Andy m 23,473]

I was already thinking on going DIY when the dealers mechanic was taken suddenly and unexpectedly on paternity leave (don't ask, its Wakefield).  On the plus side I know what I'm doing and actually give a flying telegraph pole. On the minus side, while every single dealer will try and get out of any warranty claim and you might need a lawyer anyway, I've decreased my chances of making a hassle free claim. Having found they'd overfilled the oil and missed an incorrectly fitted air filter cover I'm happy with my decision. I may have an advantage in that I can show I've worked on vehicles for 20-some years.

 

I take pictures and buy genuine parts BTW. Experiences such as the Suzuki dealer who either beamed up the back spark plug on V-Stroms or took so much care they could line up the anti-vibration paint marks on the bodywork nuts and bolts makes me think DIY can be worth betting on.

 

Andy

[Defender 3,834]

5 hours ago, horobags said:

you can use full throttle after 300 miles, as its ran in by then. Going up to around 800 miles to the first service wont do any damage.

Full throttle yes, but I would be loathed to use it under heavy/full load, but it's not my bike so it's not my call.

Several of the bikes I've had since new I've always been careful when breaking them in, and several times when they've been in for a service I've been told that they have very smooth and sweet running engines, coincidence, maybe?

My dad gave me a good piece of advice when breaking in a new engine etc., When on a long flat or downhill stretch of road, lift the throttle momentarily to allow it to be unloaded as it helps to draw some oil into the upper cylinder and lubricates it.

 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

13 hours ago, Defender said:

Several of the bikes I've had since new I've always been careful when breaking them in, and several times when they've been in for a service I've been told that they have very smooth and sweet running engines, coincidence, maybe?

 

Probably, yes.  "Smooth" and "sweet running" are subjective terms and I'm unaware of any mechanism by which "smoothness" can be affected by the running in process.  Smoothness comes from factors related to balance of the moving parts, plus coupling modes from the engine into the frame - i.e. it is principally about the design of the engine.  As for "sweet running", I'm not sure what that is, but - if it exists at all - it is surely more about good fuelling, etc.

Still - this is only my understanding.  Happy to change my mind if someone can offer a good account of what exactly goes on.

 

I think it's normal for garages to make polite comments about your bike.  They want you to like it, and to like them.

[horobags 905]

we invest a lot of dosh in our bikes and want to look after them, but I think Honda engines are quite 'unburstable' these days. The running in process has relaxed over the past 30 years due to improved manufacturing. If it was a Harley,or a bullet I'd run it in very carefully, but think of how many new Honda demo's get thrashed from day one, and go on to cover big miles being very reliable.

[Defender 3,834]

I take your points, however the comments were from the dealer staff who ride the customers anmo bikes all the time so experience more bikes than most of the rest of us?

One was noticeably smoother than the demo bike I rode.

We have various items that have a 'burn in' or seasoning procedure to carry out after being changed of if it's been not used for a while to prolong life 

1 hour ago, horobags said:

we invest a lot of dosh in our bikes and want to look after them, but I think Honda engines are quite 'unburstable' these days. The running in process has relaxed over the past 30 years due to improved manufacturing. If it was a Harley,or a bullet I'd run it in very carefully, but think of how many new Honda demo's get thrashed from day one, and go on to cover big miles being very reliable.

True, my NC'X was a demo bike before I bought it!

 

[Tex 36,816]

Getting a 'good' engine was the holy grail of all motorists and motorcyclists back in the day. One that was made just after the old, worn machine tools had been replaced or one that (quite by chance) happened to have the valve timing exactly spot on.. 'Good' engines were something to treasure. An Eastbourne lad had a '68 T120 and everyone who rode it agreed, it was the fastest, smoothest example of the breed in any of our experience.

 

Modern manufacturing means every engine should be 'good' but production line tolerances must still exist? And, every now and then, those tolerances must all 'come together', just the way they always have, to create a 'perfect' engine. What we used to call 'blueprinting'. Every component conforming exactly to the size specified by the designer and fitting to it's partner exactly how he envisaged. 

 

Can sympathetic riding by an owner make a bike 'good'? I believe it can, although I'm damned if I can offer any rational suggestion as to 'how'.  

[Spindizzy 7,109]

15 minutes ago, Tex said:

 

Can sympathetic riding by an owner make a bike 'good'? I believe it can, although I'm damned if I can offer any rational suggestion as to 'how'.  

 

My opinion, for what its worth. 

 

Sympathetic riding a new engine to me is a bad thing. You really need to maintain pressure on those rings to get a good seal. If you google running in there are hundreds of opinions out there. I can only go by what I know and have seen. When we fit new pistons/rings to freshly honed cylinders on planes you have to work it hard, or it polishes the bores and you get high oil useage. I have had to replace all the rings and re-hone cylinders when the customer was 'sympathetic'. We eventually invested in a test cell to work the engines hard properly before giving them to the misguided customer wanting to be careful.

 

I am sure in older engines there was a need for some care with other areas producing hot spots from working too hard too soon, but now?  For me the only consideration in a new design engine is to get those rings sealed properly. Give it some beans.

 

 

[Tex 36,816]

15 minutes ago, Spindizzy said:

 

My opinion, for what its worth. 

 

Sympathetic riding a new engine to me is a bad thing. You really need to maintain pressure on those rings to get a good seal. If you google running in there are hundreds of opinions out there. I can only go by what I know and have seen. When we fit new pistons/rings to freshly honed cylinders on planes you have to work it hard, or it polishes the bores and you get high oil useage. I have had to replace all the rings and re-hone cylinders when the customer was 'sympathetic'. We eventually invested in a test cell to work the engines hard properly before giving them to the misguided customer wanting to be careful.

 

I am sure in older engines there was a need for some care with other areas producing hot spots from working too hard too soon, but now?  For me the only consideration in a new design engine is to get those rings sealed properly. Give it some beans.

 

 

 

Some years back I was given the chance to tour Triumph's latest factory at Hinckley (bloody expensive day out, actually - I fell in love with a new model on the production line and it cost me over £8k to satisfy my lust!) and was seriously impressed by it all (as you would hope). The best bit was watching the new machines being 'tested' on a rolling road. 

 

Every single bike bike off the line was fitted with a 'slave' tank and seat and then wheeled into a dyno room and started. Then, after a brief period of idling while the tester performed some routine checks, it was taken to the red line through every gear including top. Once pronounced satisfactory it was taken out and the engine oil drained. Fresh oil was added, new tank and seat fitted and the bike went off for crating.

 

Then, later on, timorous new owners tiptoe away from the showroom on their new bike terrified of 'damaging' it with the throttle..

 

Edit: For the record, Spin, I regard 'sympathy' for an engine as treating it in the way it's designer would envisage. That's not the same thing as 'killing it with kindness'! You're never gonna see me chugging up an incline in a high gear.. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Tex

[Rocker66 34,375]

5 minutes ago, Tex said:

 

Some years back I was given the chance to tour Triumph's latest factory at Hinckley (bloody expensive day out, actually - I fell in love with a new model on the production line and it cost me over £8k to satisfy my lust!) and was seriously impressed by it all (as you would hope). The best bit was watching the new machines being 'tested' on a rolling road. 

 

Every single bike bike off the line was fitted with a 'slave' tank and seat and then wheeled into a dyno room and started. Then, after a brief period of idling while the tester performed some routine checks, it was taken to the red line through every gear including top. Once pronounced satisfactory it was taken out and the engine oil drained. Fresh oil was added, new tank and seat fitted and the bike went off for crating.

 

Then, later on, timorous new owners tiptoe away from the showroom on their new bike terrified of 'damaging' it with the throttle..

My visit there worked out expensive as well.

on our visit to the BMW factory in Spandau the new engines weren't exactly treated with kid gloves either.

[Defender 3,834]

3 hours ago, Tex said:

 

Some years back I was given the chance to tour Triumph's latest factory at Hinckley (bloody expensive day out, actually - I fell in love with a new model on the production line and it cost me over £8k to satisfy my lust!) and was seriously impressed by it all (as you would hope). The best bit was watching the new machines being 'tested' on a rolling road. 

 

Every single bike bike off the line was fitted with a 'slave' tank and seat and then wheeled into a dyno room and started. Then, after a brief period of idling while the tester performed some routine checks, it was taken to the red line through every gear including top. Once pronounced satisfactory it was taken out and the engine oil drained. Fresh oil was added, new tank and seat fitted and the bike went off for crating.

 

Then, later on, timorous new owners tiptoe away from the showroom on their new bike terrified of 'damaging' it with the throttle..

 

Edit: For the record, Spin, I regard 'sympathy' for an engine as treating it in the way it's designer would envisage. That's not the same thing as 'killing it with kindness'! You're never gonna see me chugging up an incline in a high gear.. 

 

I too went to the original Hinckley Triumph factory in1997 and saw the new bikes being run up, it was quite quick and was to check everything worked, gears etc as much as anything else.

Yes, and I too bought a Triumph, the first of three so far!

 

[Defender 3,834]

I remember many years ago reading that every Ferrari engine was turned over by an electric motor for 80 hours before being fitted in the car, so the new owner didn't have the bother of having to break the new engine in!