Another chain tension question!

[alhendo1 3,030]

Good afternoon all. I'll try and be as brief as possible here as I know chain tensioning has probably been done to death and I have read the posts. Here's the scenario. ..

My x was in for its first service last week and the mechanic cleaned/lubed adjusted the chain. As I was riding away from the dealership I noticed a kind of whining noise I hadn't heard before so I stopped and noticed the chain was too tight with my weight on it. I returned to the dealer and told him the symptoms and the mechanic checked it and found that in one spot it was at 20mm!....he seemed genuinely stunned as he claimed he had adjusted it to 35mm. He slackened it off again and said to his boss that there should be a complaint sent to Honda as he felt the chain was already sub standard and should be replaced under warranty even though he could see it was well lubed and no tight links etc....his boss seemed to think they wouldn't take this on as it was wear and tear but has sent an email to them anyway....I'm still awaiting their reply although he did say it would be a few days.

So having checked the chain again there are definitely a couple of tighter spots just under the 30mm mark....my question is this....when my weight is on the bike there is still movement in the chain...ie it's not bow string tight so can I ride it safely...ie. it won't damage the output shaft bearing as long as there's play in it and how much play/slack should there be with most of your weight on it?

I did ask him at the time to set it a bit slacker after the issue was noticed but he wasn't keen on doing this as he said it would take it above 40mm play which was outwith factory settings. 

Sorry it's a bit long winded but your opinions would be appreciated. 

To say I'm pissed off is an understatement. (Although lets get things into perspective here after recent events in London it's not a huge one....just thinking out loud!)

[Tex 36,816]

Sorry when you say 'first service' do you mean the 600 mile one? Or the first 'annual one'?

To claim a tight spot in the chain is 'wear and tear' at 600 miles is a bit steep!

The correct course of action is to set it at 35mm at it's tightest point. That means it will be too loose at it's slickest point - that's the way it goes. Sorry.

[alhendo1 3,030]

Yes the 600 mile one....the mechanic was basically saying the chain should be replaced under warranty so we'll see what happens....I'll have to call them back and see how this is progressing with their technical department. ...the question I'm still in the dark about is I get the slack set at 35mm on the side stand is to cover different riders weights /swingarm extension etc but are there any specific tolerances when your weight's on the bike or is it ok as long as the chain isn't tight and has a degree of movement? 

[Tex 36,816]

Honda have calculated that at 35mm there will still be sufficient slack when the suspension is fully compressed. That's why you need 35 mm at the tightest point of the chain. Tight spots on a chain only 600 miles old is disgraceful. What does the dealership boss suggest you do? Buy a new chain at 600 miles?!  

[alhendo1 3,030]

I hope not....but he seemed to think they wouldn't honour it based on it's a wear and tear item....I'll need to wait and see what they say....I just wanted to check that the bike's ok to ride and I won't be damaging anything....I've checked the entire chain run with most of my weight on it and there is movement in the chain but I just wasn't sure if there was an acceptable limit for that as well.

[Tex 36,816]

Chains have been replaced under warranty in the past. The full term is "fair wear and tear" and it all hinges on 'fair'. Is it fair that you have to buy a chain for a brand new motorcycle? Of course not!! Don't stand for any of that old bull shit. Any dealer worth his salt would go into bat for you - yours sounds like he's wimping out.

[larryblag 14,236]

Like Simon, I checked mine at its tightest point (with no one on the bike). To be honest mine never stretched at all over 1500 miles nor developed any tight spots.

[Rocker66 34,365]

1 hour ago, Tex said:

Chains have been replaced under warranty in the past. The full term is "fair wear and tear" and it all hinges on 'fair'. Is it fair that you have to buy a chain for a brand new motorcycle? Of course not!! Don't stand for any of that old bull shit. Any dealer worth his salt would go into bat for you - yours sounds like he's wimping out.

To be fair to the dealer he has contacted Honda UK regarding a warranty job. I think he is saying he doubts that Honda UK will allow it. He can only allow warranty work authorised by them so I think he is doing what he can

[trisaki 2,029]

What a load of tosh first the so called mechanic really should have noticed  the tight spot  second  their shouldn't be a tight spot as early as 600 miles third  only way the chain could have a tight spot so early in its life is it probably  wasn't adjusted  correctly at pdi   adjust at the tightest  point whilst turning  the chain in the direction  of drive (sometimes  makes a difference  )  and measure full travel up and down somewhere between  30 and 40mm  I run mine nearer the 40mm  seems to run smoother  lube chain after you have ridden   soak in over night 

[alhendo1 3,030]

Thanks for the replies folks...much appreciated. ...I'll try and make an adjustment and report back.....I've still only got a sidestand so I'll figure some way of jacking it up.

[Spindizzy 7,109]

A looser chain is always better than a tight one. As long as its not slapping the underside of the swing arm at mid-point you will be fine.

 

 

[larryblag 14,236]

Honda need to know about it as it might be a QC issue that needs addressing at the factory but considering the low mileage and newness of the bike, the dealer might be encouraged to swap the chain as a goodwill gesture. For less than fifty quid he'll have a happy customer and more chance of repeat business too?

 

Larry

[Rick 236]

I've just adjusted my chain for the first time at 3,200 miles and then only 1 flat of the nut turned to get it right, as above keep to the slack end of what Honda suggest. I would be making a noise if the same happened to me, both the overtightening and the doubt over a replacement, there should be no question.

[alhendo1 3,030]

Update!..Honda have come back to the dealer asking for them to send them a video of the chain with the tight spots and also running (I'm sure that's what the guy said).....unfortunately due to work commitments and the dealer being 30 miles away it'll be Thursday the 15th before I get down there. The dealer has asked me to leave the chain as is at the moment and has assured me it will be fine to ride....I won't be doing many miles between times anyway.....I'll keep you updated. Alan.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

Folks: how do you actually check the chain tightness at various different positions?

 

I believe you are supposed to check the tightness with the bike on the side stand.  However, to do it properly you have to move the bike forward or backward a few times to make sure you've checked all the chain.

 

Is that what you actually do?  On my driveway it's a right faff.

 

I've got a centre stand on mine, and would much prefer to check and adjust the chain when it's up on the stand so I can spin the back wheel freely.  But I don't know what the slack is supposed to be when the rear suspension is fully extended.

[Guest Hati]

5 minutes ago, SteveThackery said:

I've got a centre stand on mine, and would much prefer to check and adjust the chain when it's up on the stand so I can spin the back wheel freely.  But I don't know what the slack is supposed to be when the rear suspension is fully extended.

 

Well, for what it's worth, the Integra manual says to check chain slack on the centre stand, 25 to 35 mm midway between the sprockets. The Integra rear suspension travel is 120 mm. If your X is similar, I can't see why you couldn't do yours on the centre stand too.

[Andy m 23,440]

The correct way is to get a mate of your exact weight and size to sit on the bike. You get down and (assuming a 20 degree day) measure chain pin to swing arm hanging and pushed up. Your mate then walks forwards 6 1/4 inches (assuming standard chain pitch) and you repeat. Repeat again until you have 10 measurements. Average using the Randall-Hopkirk equation and compare to the manual. Repeat after any adjustment. Now get out your laser......

 

If however you have a life, pop it up on the centre stand (or keep wheeling about if side only), see if you can push the chain up more than the thickness of two fingers (less is too tight) without it touching the swing arm. Wang the back wheel round and repeat. Do this again. If you get within 1 finger of the swing arm, adjust back to 2-3 fingers movement. If you you can't get 2 fingers movement and more than one finger off the swingarm at every point the chain is shagged.

 

If you are adjusting more than every 2000 miles I'm betting its too tight. Your mother was right BTW, if you play with it too much it will fall off.

 

Andy

[Tonyj 6,907]

You mean to suggest that something might actually wear out 

[trisaki 2,029]

Believe they say on the side stand  because that is what it came with as standard  whereas integra I believe came with a mainstand  as standard  - won't be a lot if anyou difference  

Edited June 6, 2017 by trisaki

[Defender 3,825]

9 hours ago, Andy m said:

The correct way is to get a mate of your exact weight and size to sit on the bike. You get down and (assuming a 20 degree day) measure chain pin to swing arm hanging and pushed up. Your mate then walks forwards 6 1/4 inches (assuming standard chain pitch) and you repeat. Repeat again until you have 10 measurements. Average using the Randall-Hopkirk equation and compare to the manual. Repeat after any adjustment. Now get out your laser......

 

If however you have a life, pop it up on the centre stand (or keep wheeling about if side only), see if you can push the chain up more than the thickness of two fingers (less is too tight) without it touching the swing arm. Wang the back wheel round and repeat. Do this again. If you get within 1 finger of the swing arm, adjust back to 2-3 fingers movement. If you you can't get 2 fingers movement and more than one finger off the swingarm at every point the chain is shagged.

 

If you are adjusting more than every 2000 miles I'm betting its too tight. Your mother was right BTW, if you play with it too much it will fall off.

 

Andy

Your first method is almost correct, if using the Randall-Hopkirk equation, you must factor in the day of the week, longitude and latitude, plus the rotational speed of the earth and position of the sun?

Only then will you have the correct figure to ten decimal places.

Alternatively ask an adult!

[Guest Mac750]

Had a shaft drive bike for last 9 years what's a drive chain sounds like some ancient lash up. 🤔

[Andy m 23,440]

10 minutes every month or 10 hours whenever this happens or preventative greasing time comes along?

 

 

In the neverending fashion drive for lightness there are more possibilities in a chain without resorting to bad materials and undersized designs.

 

Andy

Edited June 7, 2017 by Andy m

[Defender 3,825]

1 hour ago, Andy m said:

10 minutes every month or 10 hours whenever this happens or preventative greasing time comes along?

 

 

In the neverending fashion drive for lightness there are more possibilities in a chain without resorting to bad materials and undersized designs.

 

Andy

Fire in the hole!

[Trumpet 215]

That pic is like replacing a chain when it wears out, but much, much more expensive. And not only do they break up, but also dump oil all over the rear tyre in the process.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Trumpet

[Graham NZ 1,186]

My 1990 BMW GS1000 was the most unreliable bike I've owned in 'the modern era'.  The next was a 2005 Guzzi Breva V1100.  Both had shaft drive issues.

Shaft drives have many good points but they are expensive when they go wrong.  No problems with my other three shafties, of which two were Hondas.

 

Chains have their bad points but they give excellent value for money and are commendably reliable, even when neglected, slack and badly worn.  Only once have I had a chain break and that was in 1962.  Modern chains are beautifully designed and made and with the right lubricant even mess-free enough to accept in a carpeted garage.