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matt28

Yamaha 700 Tracer

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Tex

 

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I personally do not EVER intend paying anything more than £8000 for a motorcycle....& then add all the extras like most of us do !!!

 

In 1969 I said that £614 was ‘far too much money’ to pay for a motorcycle (BSA Rocket 3) the CB750 was over £600 too. The Norton Commando was £450 and I actually bought a Triumph T120 for £420, 5s, 4d. Funny how those things stick in your mind, five and fourpence! :D 

 

The only thing you can rely on (apart from death and taxes) is that prices will rise. At some point in the (probably not too distant) future £8k will buy you a moped. ;) 

 

But, on the bright side, any modern motorcycle will run for 200k miles if properly looked after (especially the NC which is designed to be low stressed) so you may never need a new bike again - but that’s not gonna stop you wanting one. :niceone:

 

Happy New Year! :) 

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SteveThackery
1 hour ago, Tex said:

........you may never need a new bike again - but that’s not gonna stop you wanting one. :niceone:

 

 

That is the story of my life.  And not just about bikes.

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macamx
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tex said:

 

 

In 1969 I said that £614 was ‘far too much money’ to pay for a motorcycle (BSA Rocket 3) the CB750 was over £600 too. The Norton Commando was £450 and I actually bought a Triumph T120 for £420, 5s, 4d. Funny how those things stick in your mind, five and fourpence! :D 

 

The only thing you can rely on (apart from death and taxes) is that prices will rise. At some point in the (probably not too distant) future £8k will buy you a moped. ;) 

 

But, on the bright side, any modern motorcycle will run for 200k miles if properly looked after (especially the NC which is designed to be low stressed) so you may never need a new bike again - but that’s not gonna stop you wanting one. :niceone:

 

Happy New Year! :) 

 

This got me thinking about relative values and my (and I suspect one or two others) irrational logic that we apply to our lifestyle. I have just sat and totted up using the Triumph configurator what Ting Tong would cost me if I went into a dealer and purchased her in her current configuration. The shocking figure is some £11k. She is to me a thing of aesthetic excellence that I want to cherish forever and consequently, she is all covered up and protected against the ravages of winter. Now let's get real here, I'm 66 this month so the term "forever" is a complete nonsense. All my love and attention will benefit some else whilst I miss out on some great riding (today being a cracking example). If I were to p/x it to a dealer, as what will probably happen as my longterm plans always turn to dust with regard to bikes, I would receive little or no financial benefit for all my care and attention so the paranoia that goes hand in hand with this relationship is madness and some form of help would be justified. 

 

So is there any possible way through this lunacy, well with me it's always been the same, the fanatical approach to what to me are very desirable vehicles, I am the same with cars, tends to actually spoil the very thing that I am searching for. 

 

Would a more sensible approach not be to spend say £5k on say a Honda CB500F, run it for a year in all conditions (a quick hose down would suffice) then p/x it just before its first big service at 8,000 miles which is about my yearly mileage, for another. I reckon the cost to change would be about £2k but if you factor in the saving on the service and also new tyres would be probably be required about this point then the actual real cost to change would be about £1.4k.

 

Upsides would be more riding less worrying. Downsides would be the joy of the aesthetics and the nostalgia invoked by Ting Tong. Makes me think, it does, is there a logic here or have I overdone the "sauce" over the festivities

 

Geoff.

Edited by macamx
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Andy m

My plans for the CB500 are pretty much as you describe. It's on the ramp now as the OE tyres have now got to the point they are annoying me (47HP should not spin up a 160 section tyre in third) but after that it'll be nothing but oil changes until its 34 months old. It'll be on 15000 miles by then, so may have had another pair of tyres and a chain. The big service is valves and plugs which may actually be more accessible by taking the engine out. Access is not bad enough to make you buy a Ural, but it's close. If I fancy it I'll get in and do the plugs, but the valves will be untouched if they sound and run OK. The dealer only sees me on new bike day, he is presented with a service book I've stamped myself and receipts for genuine parts. 

 

The dealer is only interested in what he can get for the bike based on the showroom looks. So long as it makes it past the warranty he gives on used bikes (6 months?) he doesn't care. My use of ACF-50 pleases him. The tyres he will use to lower the trade in price if worn, but we both know two tyres could cost me £200 and him the sale, so he won't go silly. The lack of dealer service he may use as a lever, but we both know he'll just order a new manual and replace my stamps with his. He will punish me most for the day it went over 9999 miles, he wants one owner, free MOT (it'll pass when his own mechanics test it) when you buy, second hand bikes to be on under 10k miles. I am in competition with guys trading 18 month old 1500 mile £12000 bikes, so an not his best customer. A sale is a sale though and I usually walk in, point at a bike and say "how much cash for that" so I'm easy to deal with. 

 

The purist are now howling that I risk a thrunging sprocket failure everytime I go 2 miles past the oil change interval or a warp core breach by ignoring the valves. I may be, but I know the dealers do this too and there is no epidemic of bikes with burnt out flux capacitors at the side of the road. If it breaks seriously I either fix it or break it for parts. 

 

At the minute I'd expect to hand over £2500 cash and ride away a 2021 CB500 to which a lot of my useful bits like mirror extensions would transfer. 

 

This is not the cheapest way to own a bike, that would be to buy used, play the MOT roulette and keep changing the oil and shimming the valves until the bores are worn out. Having tried other ways I think it is a balance of hassle and cost. 

 

Andy

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dazznutts
Posted (edited)
On 1/2/2018 at 11:54, Black Marauder said:

After owning the MT09 Tracer for 12mths, when it was in for a service tried the 700 Tracer & with the free "winter pack" & centre stand now available [non Yamaha] & "acceptable" price to change, ordered one & because of the service on the 900, the 1st service will be free ! DO I regret owning 2 [15] & [16] NC 750X .....NO not at all !! & in this sector 700/900 bikes it is good to have a selection of models to consider !!!

Almost bought a tracer 700 from another dealer in maidstone a canceled order that had been lying around a while not registered and complete with the luggage offer from early last year unfortunately the sales people couldn't tell me exactly how long they've had the bike what year etc (even as though the tracer hasn't been updated 2016 is the latest model in between the new 2019)no movement in deal price and didn't like what the service guys said about the services so moved onto a MT-07 from another dealer

Edited by dazznutts

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Chris750

Within the trade there are instances of Tracer 700 engine failures with aftermarket exhausts fitted which Yamaha will not cover under warranty.

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macamx
13 minutes ago, Chris750 said:

Within the trade there are instances of Tracer 700 engine failures with aftermarket exhausts fitted which Yamaha will not cover under warranty.

Interesting, I thought that modern engine management systems would cope with even a straight through exhaust as long as the “Cat” was still in place.

 

Geoff.

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Tex

Geoff and Andy, Interesting posts thanks! :niceone:

 

I actually tried the ‘buy a bike you’re not really fussed about’ route (Integra) and it was pretty disastrous, for me. Take away the ‘lust’ (or ‘love’ if you prefer) factor and a bike just becomes a car. Only colder and wetter. ;) I just can’t find it in me to enjoy riding something I don’t enjoy ‘cherishing’. Probably something lacking in my emotional makeup I suppose!

 

But you boys got me thinking - I’m 67 next week and who’s going to get the benefit of the love, attention (and bloody money!) that’s been lavished on Percy if I don’t? 

 

I’m not one for making New Year’s resolutions (a long list of abject failures in the past see’s to that - although I did give up smoking for the 1980 new year) but maybe one to ride more and fuss less? :) 

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macamx
8 minutes ago, Tex said:

Geoff and Andy, Interesting posts thanks! :niceone:

 

I actually tried the ‘buy a bike you’re not really fussed about’ route (Integra) and it was pretty disastrous, for me. Take away the ‘lust’ (or ‘love’ if you prefer) factor and a bike just becomes a car. Only colder and wetter. ;) I just can’t find it in me to enjoy riding something I don’t enjoy ‘cherishing’. Probably something lacking in my emotional makeup I suppose!

 

But you boys got me thinking - I’m 67 next week and who’s going to get the benefit of the love, attention (and bloody money!) that’s been lavished on Percy if I don’t? 

 

I’m not one for making New Year’s resolutions (a long list of abject failures in the past see’s to that - although I did give up smoking for the 1980 new year) but maybe one to ride more and fuss less? :) 

As always Tex, the pragmatic, sensible approach. I to am not one for New Years resolutions but on this occasion then I’m with you so “ride more and fuss less” it is then.

 

Geoff.

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Marvincon
12 minutes ago, Tex said:

I’m 67 next week

It's nice to know there's someone who's a lot older than me, I'm not 67 until the 22nd. 😂

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macamx

I’m just a lad then at 66 on the 26th.

 

Geoff.

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baben
26 minutes ago, Tex said:

but maybe one to ride more and fuss less? :) 

That is an excellent idea. I will steal it from you if I may.

 

27 minutes ago, Tex said:

I’m 67 next week

Blasted teenage tearaways!

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baben
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Marvincon said:

t's nice to know there's someone who's a lot older than me, I'm not 67 until the 22nd.

And another one!

Edited by baben

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baben
6 minutes ago, macamx said:

I’m just a lad then at 66 on the 26th

And another! Matron pass me my calming powders.

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Tex
20 minutes ago, baben said:

That is an excellent idea. I will steal it from you if I may.

 

Feel free! And I wish you every success. :niceone:

 

20 minutes ago, baben said:

 

Blasted teenage tearaways!

 

Why, thank you! :) 

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embee
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, macamx said:

Interesting, I thought that modern engine management systems would cope with even a straight through exhaust as long as the “Cat” was still in place.

 

Geoff.

No. The feedback uses the oxygen sensor (lambda sensor) for part load (small throttle opening) fuelling correction to stoichiometric for emissions reasons. The cat just cleans up the mess, of itself strictly speaking it doesn't influence things. If just the cat is removed it usually reduces exhaust backpressure which on most simple air flow measurement systems (i.e. not a true mass flow system) will tend to result in weakening the mixture (more air flow than the fuelling was mapped for). At light loads and thus low fuel flows the effect will be relatively small and the available range of fuelling correction from the feedback will accommodate it providing the oxygen sensor is still in place.

At high power (high air and fuel flow) the weakening effect is more significant. At high power (speed and/or load) the ECU switches to "open loop" and just uses the mapped values for fuelling, the lambda sensor is not taken into account. The fuelling is mapped at slightly rich to ensure safe combustion and exhaust temperatures etc. If the mods have resulted in it running too lean it can result in failure.

Edited by embee
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macamx

Thank you for that very full and clear explanation.

 

Geoff.

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Tex

And you certainly can’t blame Yamaha for not picking up the tab for any damage! 

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Hickky

It's refreshing to observe a conversation between my seniors. You see I will not even turn 66 until July!  

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larryblag
Posted (edited)
On 07/07/2017 at 19:36, slowboy said:

'Tis true, but you have to work it harder to get at it. And that just looks like your trying too hard. Alright now and again, but gets a bit wearing after a while. Effortless torque is where it's at......man😎

This has not been my experience thus far with the Tracer 700.

Easily as accessible torque as the NC. But not just low down it's everywhere :D. Unlike the NC I'm not troubled by hitting the rev limiter half way through an overtake. 4th gear is the peach which will take you (and a pillion) smoothly from about 30 - 90.mph. 

Of course it has it's flaws. Some have mentioned the visible plumbing and odd bits if bracketry (which is why Yamaha missed a trick with the 2019 model by not giving it fairing lowers to hide all that stuff) and I've mentioned elsewhere about the overly-cheap switchgear. 

Brakes? Rear as good as the NC once the pedal position was adjusted properly (I looked like Rudolph Nureyev pointing my toes before). Front is way better than the NC. Ironically with sych a low all up weight it'd easily do with a single disk. 

That said, ours is run in fully now. 

 

Needs a better rear shock. Forks are OK. 

Edited by larryblag
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Ciaran1602
19 hours ago, larryblag said:

This has not been my experience thus far with the Tracer 700.

Easily as accessible torque as the NC. But not just low down it's everywhere :D. Unlike the NC I'm not troubled by hitting the rev limiter half way through an overtake. 4th gear is the peach which will take you (and a pillion) smoothly from about 30 - 90.mph. 

Of course it has it's flaws. Some have mentioned the visible plumbing and odd bits if bracketry (which is why Yamaha missed a trick with the 2019 model by not giving it fairing lowers to hide all that stuff) and I've mentioned elsewhere about the overly-cheap switchgear. 

Brakes? Rear as good as the NC once the pedal position was adjusted properly (I looked like Rudolph Nureyev pointing my toes before). Front is way better than the NC. Ironically with sych a low all up weight it'd easily do with a single disk. 

That said, ours is run in fully now. 

 

Needs a better rear shock. Forks are OK. 

 

How do you find the height? I’ve got another year left on the NC and find myself every so often giving little longing glances at the Tracers but am concerned about seat height. I seem to remember we are both similar heights!

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larryblag
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ciaran1602 said:

 

How do you find the height? I’ve got another year left on the NC and find myself every so often giving little longing glances at the Tracers but am concerned about seat height. I seem to remember we are both similar heights!

Ciaran it's fine honestly. When I first ordered it I was going to have it lowered but decided to wait. In the end I quickly got used to it. Im a bit tippy toes (balls of my feet actually) when sitting straight but at a stand I sit slightly offset with one bum cheek. It's such a, light bike that this is no issue whatsoever - even paddling it backwards (impossible with the RT). Speaking of the RT, my foray into cruisers was down to dropping that big Bertha coming to a stand which so utterly robbed me of confidence I thought cruisers were my only choice if we were going to keep biking at all.:bye:

I have described the Tracer as like riding a souped up 125 compared to every other bike I've owned. I expected the downside to this was that it would be badly affected by wind (particularly side winds) but this hasn't been the case either. 

I agree with you about the looks of the Tracer 700, your Diversion was definitely better in this respect. But I urge you to try the T700 when you can. 

The comfort seat is good by the way (we tried one) but adds about an inch to the height which is too much. 

For reference, when buying trousers I'm a 29" leg. 

 

Edited by larryblag

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baben
2 hours ago, larryblag said:

For reference, when buying trousers I'm a 29" leg.

I have no plans to buy you trousers or indeed to buy your trousers but that is useful info as I am a 31" leg so should find the T700 perhaps a bit cramped?  I must test the GT version to find out.

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larryblag
8 minutes ago, baben said:

I have no plans to buy you trousers or indeed to buy your trousers but that is useful info as I am a 31" leg so should find the T700 perhaps a bit cramped?  I must test the GT version to find out.

It'll fit you like a, glove I reckon :thumbsup:

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macamx

Try this folks:-   http://cycle-ergo.com/

 

 

Geoff,

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