NC750X dct snatching gears, badly

[Rocker66 34,375]

14 minutes ago, aldmannie said:

 

Honda reliability is like Volkswagen's, a myth created by the marketing department.

 

Honda have a long history of rushing new bike models to market before they're fully tested and letting new owners do the final testing.

I don't know how long you have been riding but certainly when Honda first came on the market their reliability was superior to anything else around. When I went on the visit to the Triumph factory in Hinckley shortly after it opened the guide told us that their aim was to equal Honda quality. Certainly in the 70s and 80s Honda's build quality was superior to the other Japanese companies. Read any magazine dedicated to restoring bikes from those years and you will find evidence of that.So far I have never owned a Honda that proved problematic.

Im not saying Honda are perfect but they are certainly no worse than any other make and certainly better than some.

Now if you want a company whose quality and reliability has dropped over the years I have been riding then that would BMW

Edited July 8, 2017 by Rocker66

[Tex 36,816]

1 hour ago, aldmannie said:

 

Honda reliability is like Volkswagen's, a myth created by the marketing department.

 

Codswallop! Utter tosh! You want to know about reliability ask a roadside patrolman (in whatever colour uniform you choose) they will 100% tell you you're talking out of your arse.

[Guest aldmannie]

Many Hondas have had problems in the past and its still happening.

Cam problems on VF750 supposed to have been sorted on the VFR but were not, early ones had a recall.

Mine had three sets along with a full bottom end replacement.

CBX550 also had major engine woes initially along with a very ropey front brake.

As an example of a more recent reliability epic fail there's the VFR1200 catastrophic engine failures.

Plus every model from the Thailand facility has had problems of one sort or another.

Ive had four Hondas over the years and all of them had major problems.

These problems are well documented, seek and ye shall find.

 

[Rocker66 34,375]

5 minutes ago, aldmannie said:

Many Hondas have had problems in the past and its still happening.

Cam problems on VF750 supposed to have been sorted on the VFR but were not, early ones had a recall.

Mine had three sets along with a full bottom end replacement.

CBX550 also had major engine woes initially along with a very ropey front brake.

As an example of a more recent reliability epic fail there's the VFR1200 catastrophic engine failures.

Plus every model from the Thailand facility has had problems of one sort or another.

Ive had four Hondas over the years and all of them had major problems.

These problems are well documented, seek and ye shall find.

 

I know of these problems as I have been riding since 1963 . I also know of major problems with other makes of bikes.. I owned The early VFR 1200 and had no problems. Just think how many models Honda have produced over the years that have not had problems. 

I fnd it really difficult to understand why a few people on here who have nothing but negative things to say about Honda and their dealers are still riding them. If I were that upset I would avoid the brand as I did after all my problems with Yamaha and their XS750 triple.

[baben 11,698]

My brother gave me the advice, buy any bike you want so long as it is Japanese. I am very happy with my Triumph and the quality seems very good so far as I can tell but you don,t really know how good a bike is going to be till you've done 20,00 miles plus. On that basis I can vouch for the Suzuki V Strom 650, the Honda VFR800 and The Honda Superdream 250. Not done enough miles on anything else that was as reliable - and don't get me started on BMW!

[Rocker66 34,375]

We seem to have gone off topic a bit here. Nothing new there😀😀 so maybe we should get back to Girth's problem and what the outcome might be. Hopefully either the dealer or Honda will sort it either by fixing the bike or replacing it

[pjm 6,041]

Honda CB125 Twin, Honda CD200 Benley, Honda VFR750, Honda SH125, Honda CBF1000FA ,Honda NC750D Integra all great bikes owned by me and no issues between them. For what it's worth with 4 wheels Honda Civic, Honda CRV and Honda Civic EX just as good as all my bikes.

Edited July 8, 2017 by pjm

[Guest Mac750]

I have been riding Japanese bikes since Mrs Thatcher was a chemist in an Ice Cream factory. My two go to brands of motorcycle have in the main been Honda or Suzuki four stroke . 

Of those two the build quality and attention to detail was always Honda. But the price point was always more expensive than Suzuki, which worked equally well ( apart from reg recs) but the cheaper Suzuki did need more love to keep it looking like it should. 

The NC - DCT and non DCT is a cheap bike to buy new, the engine and box on my particular bike feel bomb proof and the manual gear change is slick for a Honda, who always made a notchy gear change. But to reach the price point they have had to make sacrifices. The DCT is not one of those. Namely tyres, chain, wheel bearings.

But I would definitely say Honda reliability is no myth. You can name on one hand the unreliable Honda models of the past, CB 500T.  VF range, and most cams made of Cadburys Dairy Milk.  But compare those to other manufacturers who have made the same thing wrapped in a different party dress for decades and still can't get it right. Even BMW cannot make shaft drives yet that don't catch fire or go pencil shaped. For the money the NC range is VFM. 

 

As for the particular machine in question see the post on here under the Consumer Protection Act 2015 or look it up on line. Take the bike back let them try to fix it, then ask for a replacement or a new one or hand back all keys and documents and by law they MUST refund you in full. It's the Law. 

Personally I would just smile hand it back and say replacement please .

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Mac750

[Guest aldmannie]

4 hours ago, Mac750 said:

You can name on one hand the unreliable Honda models of the past, CB 500T.  VF range, and most cams made of Cadburys Dairy Milk

 

You don't have to look very far into the past.

 

A quick selection off the top of my head:

 

Early PCX 125, centrestand mount lugs not strong enough, stand lugs known to come adrift and known to tear holes in crankcases as a result

Forza 125 (manufactured in Italy) faulty wiring required complete loom replacement

Early CB500F/X/R, rocker arm pivots worked loose, problems with fuel sender in tank.

VFR1200 catastrophic engine failure

My last Honda had something like four recalls and seven warranty repairs, when traded at 42 months old it still had a faulty brake light switch, which had already been replaced twice and there were two outstanding recalls I couldn't be arsed having done because I had totally run out of patience with it.

The fuel pump was one of the recalls, and it was re-recalled for the replacement pump to be replaced.

Waterpump also had a failure, the mechanical seal was damaged during assembly, again this is a known fault affecting several bikes.

The reason I've had a bit of time on NC bikes is because they were loaners while my last Honda spent time in the workshop either for recalls, warranty repairs or just waiting for parts.

 

Do I think all Hondas are bad because of my bad experiences?

Not a bit of it, but I know for a certain fact that not all Hondas are reliable and you need to avoid buying a new model till the wrinkles have been ironed out.

 

Even though Honda are pretty much at the top of the reliability league table overall, in my opinion the reported rate of of failures at roughly one in eight is unacceptably high.

 

Fun quiz: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-top-10s/who-makes-most-reliable-motorcycles

 

[Guest Mac750]

In a fight to stem rising production costs all manufacturers including Triumph and BMW are looking to produce elsewhere. Capital expenditure is kept to a minimum by out sourcing to existing plants in China, Malaysia, Korea. The two scooters mentioned are no doubt not made in Japan. Same as Yam, or better still Kawasaki, who don't even design the thing they just badge engineered a Downtown 400 , Pug Durango is wholly made in China as is most of the Piaggio range now. In the case of the latter they rust out sat in the showroom .

In the main Honda QA still manages to keep the cost per product low and quality per product higher than most others doing the same balancing act, not saying they are paragons of vertue but they are still up as the better ranked manufacturers chart.

Any reliability survey will be skewed by sales numbers, unless they had a control number. We asked 1000 Yam, 1000 Honda, 1000 Ducati, owners etc.  Who is the most prolific seller of PTWs  Honda so more sold more reported problems =  skewed Poll. But it sells a lot of shiny magazines. 

[Guest Girth]

Hi all again,

 

I've decided to go down the rejection route, especially as it's less than 30 days old, with a view for a replacement. Just waiting for Honda head office to contact me to start proceedings.

 

Riding home on Friday evening caused another brown pants moment. Needless to say, I'm not riding it again.

 

Really hope it's not a drawn out process, I hate getting the train.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

3 hours ago, Mac750 said:

Any reliability survey will be skewed by sales numbers, unless they had a control number. We asked 1000 Yam, 1000 Honda, 1000 Ducati, owners etc.  Who is the most prolific seller of PTWs  Honda so more sold more reported problems =  skewed Poll. But it sells a lot of shiny magazines. 

 

They specifically referred to "failure rate", so it does take into account the population of each model/make.  However, that's assuming they know what "failure rate" means and have correctly calculated it.

 

They also don't describe sufficiently how they got the data - was it self-selecting?  If so, it's basically worthless.  If not, it might have some legitimacy.

 

Also, as one of the commentators pointed out, there are two variables: time (four years), and mileage.  There is no mention of how they adjusted for the latter, or if they did.

 

The results might be legitimate, but with the information given in the article we can't tell and it might equally well be nonsense.

(Guess who used to be a Reliability Engineer!  )

[Guest aldmannie]

Even if the polls don't give accurate results, they do show that reliability issues exist.

[Guest aldmannie]

Honda PCX, CB300 and CB500 ranges all made in Thailand.

Every one of them had teething problems.

The Honda Forza 125 is manufactured in Italy, the home of defective motorcycle electrics.

Allegedly.

[Rocker66 34,375]

Statistics can be very misleading for example 100% of the Ducatis I have owned have been trouble free with the only problem being with an aftermarket part. This sounds really good until you realise I have only owned One Ducati.

[embee 7,288]

As Steve says, there's a lot of additional info required to make a truly significant assessment, like does a screw coming loose in an indicator lens carry equal weighting as a con-rod through the crankcase or a wheel falling off? Problems per hundred vehicles is a pretty standard rating system in the auto industry though.

Having said that, we all know some bike makes/models are more equal than others.

There do seem to be fewer intrinsic engineering faults than there used to be once upon a time where nearly all vehicles have the same problem, and rather more quality/assembly type issues where it is batch or occasional issues. All vehicle manufacturers go through waves of sorting the QA and letting it slip again, a case of complacency and new generations forgetting the lessons learned by earlier generations.

[Daz 5]

I think rejection is the way forward. I have a 2017 DCT with 1,235 trouble free miles i hope this continues.

Good luck with sorting this out,  Honda need to step up and sort this out for you.

[Tonyj 6,907]

I'm still trying to get my head around the "catastrophic engine failure " or was you referring to the swarf in the first 400 bikes produced . Did someone die or get injured or are you using poetic license to illustrate your point . Murder by swarf :0) or a bit disappointed my new bike is broke kinda thing . Ride the demo ! If it's the same , it's you . if it's different back it. It's that simple but this is a good place to ask . 

[Guest aldmannie]

37 minutes ago, Tonyj said:

I'm still trying to get my head around the "catastrophic engine failure "

 

The people who bought the ones that broke probably are too.

[pjm 6,041]

Talk about a dour Scot 'Were doomed, were doomed' . How about we get a nice positive post going. Sorry to the OP for your pain and good luck with the rejection process but let's hope you have just been unlucky and good luck with your next bike. Mean while if  Auldlangwinging slashes his wrists we will end up having a whip round. 😀😀😀

[Rocker66 34,375]

40 minutes ago, aldmannie said:

 

The people who bought the ones that broke probably are too.

Honda UK replaced the engines so I think that problem was handled as well as it could have been. It only applied to a very small percentage of the VFR1200s produced.

[Guest Mac750]

And Cadburys are now American owned and no longer in the cam making business.       😀👍

Does one say Nestle's or Nestlay

And is it Bo- Da-Cea or. Budica. 

 

 

[kayz1 2,928]

2 hours ago, Mac750 said:

And Cadburys are now American owned and no longer in the cam making business. 😀👍   ***  They are no longer in the chocolate making business either judging by the taste of the modern made in some place in Euroland Stuff ***

Does one say Nestle's or Nestlay   ***Yes ***

And is it Bo- Da-Cea or. Budica.    ***Yes***

 

 

 

[Taipan 110]

23 hours ago, Girth said:

Hi all again,

 

I've decided to go down the rejection route, especially as it's less than 30 days old, with a view for a replacement. Just waiting for Honda head office to contact me to start proceedings.

 

Riding home on Friday evening caused another brown pants moment. Needless to say, I'm not riding it again.

 

Really hope it's not a drawn out process, I hate getting the train.

 

The right decision in my opinion. As I said earlier, I wouldn't want to keep a bike that had been bashing its own transmission about as you never know what, if any, damage has been down that may show up later. Plus I'd never trust the thing either.

[Guest Girth]

In regards to possible damage, the chain will have certainly taken a beating, and there will have been additional wear on the clutches.