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DCT ignition cut out


Guest psoutthere

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Guest psoutthere

Having a few ride outs today, getting wet then enjoying the sun. The 2016 NC750X DCT engine cut out. No warning lights. When I pulled over, I switched the ignition of and on, it was showing 4th gear, there was a whirring noise coming from the gearbox. After numerous attempts, on/off, gear selector, to put into N it would not change. I tried that many things that I can't remember the sequence. I sat, waiting for the breakdown, and searching, on the internet, for similar problems. The nearest I could find on Nc700 forum was problems with the kick stand sensor. I sat on the bike and lifted the kickstand. Each time I switched the ignition on and lifted the kick stand it dropped a gear until I managed to get it into neutral.???? The breakdown truck arrived and, in neutral I managed to start it. The breakdown stayed with me for 5 miles without problems. I then rode another 22 miles home.

 

Anybody got any ideas about what went wrong and the strange solution?

 

I will get in touch with Honda Carlisle (not Cox Honda, where I bought the bike, as they are dishonest) and see what they say.

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embee

Have a check through my post about my Integra failing to start, here (apologies about photophucket pulling the picture links, bless them)

Someone else had the same issue, again solved by cleaning the connector for the right side switch gear kill/start wiring. Worth a try. If the feed to the kill switch gets interrupted for any reason it will shut off the fuel relay so total engine cut.

 

If stationary with the engine not running the gear selector will often (usually?) not be able to go through the sequence of gears because the dogs don't line up to allow the gears to slide, this is exactly the same for a manual gearbox. They can be encouraged if the box is turning, by wheeling the bike as you turn on the ignition, which allows the selectors to move the gears. It may only do one shift at a time, this may be a consequence of some fail-safe logic etc, so you might well need to do the on/off sequence until it reaches neutral one gear at a a time (my guess work there, no certainty). With the kick-stand down it would normally only run in neutral, so probably some link there as it wants to be in neutral.

Edited by embee
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Similar issue on my AT and I found that by putting the bike on the centre stand and rolling the rear wheel backwards with the ignition on it found neutral after being stuck in second. I agree that it is a result of the gears being in slightly the wrong position when the engine stopped.

Edited by pjm
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SteveThackery

I think I know why messing with the sidestand eventually got it into neutral.

 

I've discovered that if I stop in gear, and switch the engine off with the kill switch or the ignition switch, it stays in gear until I next start it, when it snicks into neutral.

 

If I stop in gear and switch off the engine by operating the sidestand, it snicks into neutral before the engine stops.  

 

Therefore repeatedly actuating the sidestand will repeatedly actuate the "select neutral" function.

 

The gearbox in the DCT is much like any other bike gearbox, in that the dogs on the gears must align before the gear can be selected, and this means that - like pretty well all other bikes - they cannot change down through several gears without the gearbox being turned by the back wheel.  (Oops, I've just realised embee has written the same thing.)

 

So that explains the odd behaviour you experienced in getting it back into neutral.  However, you still need to find out why it cut out in the first place.  As embee says, it's probably worth looking around the wiring near the killswitch.

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Guest psoutthere

Thanks, embee, PJM and Steve, for the advice. I did roll the bike a lot and stopped a few times, to get off the main road. I will have a look at the switch as, it now appears to be the culprit.

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15 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

I think I know why messing with the sidestand eventually got it into neutral.

 

I've discovered that if I stop in gear, and switch the engine off with the kill switch or the ignition switch, it stays in gear until I next start it, when it snicks into neutral.

 

If I stop in gear and switch off the engine by operating the sidestand, it snicks into neutral before the engine stops.  

 

Therefore repeatedly actuating the sidestand will repeatedly actuate the "select neutral" function.

 

The gearbox in the DCT is much like any other bike gearbox, in that the dogs on the gears must align before the gear can be selected, and this means that - like pretty well all other bikes - they cannot change down through several gears without the gearbox being turned by the back wheel.  (Oops, I've just realised embee has written the same thing.)

 

So that explains the odd behaviour you experienced in getting it back into neutral.  However, you still need to find out why it cut out in the first place.  As embee says, it's probably worth looking around the wiring near the killswitch.

 

Interesting. With cars, you usually put into neutral and then turn off engine.  I usually turn the (DCT) NC ignition off and then flip the sidestand down, so I now know its in gear when off - I do hear the selector move when I turn the bike back on.  But I'm thinking  its surely better for the gearbox to be in neutral *before* the engine is switched off?  It's seems odd and counter-intuitive to use the sidestand as a neutral+engine stop selector.  I know I can select manually... does it really matter for the gearbox?

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embee

Honda recommend putting the DCT into neutral before stopping the engine. This avoids it needing to select neutral when you turn it on again while the engine is not turning the internals. Much easier on the system to select when it's running.

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SteveThackery
1 hour ago, Morph said:

 

Interesting. With cars, you usually put into neutral and then turn off engine.  I usually turn the (DCT) NC ignition off and then flip the sidestand down, so I now know its in gear when off - I do hear the selector move when I turn the bike back on.  But I'm thinking  its surely better for the gearbox to be in neutral *before* the engine is switched off?  It's seems odd and counter-intuitive to use the sidestand as a neutral+engine stop selector.  I know I can select manually... does it really matter for the gearbox?

 

So are you saying you don't select neutral before switching off?  It says in the owner's handbook you should do that.

 

If you don't, then as you say it will select neutral when you switch it back on.  People have argued that if the battery is failing it might not have enough grunt to operate the selector motor when you switch on, and thus won't let it start.  This sounds daft to me - surely if it won't operate the selector motor then there's no way it'll operate the starter motor.

 

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SteveThackery
Just now, embee said:

This avoids it needing to select neutral when you turn it on again while the engine is not turning the internals. Much easier on the system to select when it's running.

 

Yes, although to be  honest I've never found any motorcycle gearbox difficult to move out of gear (into neutral) when stationary.  But it could happen - as embee says, motorcycle gearboxes are designed to be operated with the internals turning.

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1 hour ago, SteveThackery said:

 

So are you saying you don't select neutral before switching off?  It says in the owner's handbook you should do that.

 

If you don't, then as you say it will select neutral when you switch it back on.  People have argued that if the battery is failing it might not have enough grunt to operate the selector motor when you switch on, and thus won't let it start.  This sounds daft to me - surely if it won't operate the selector motor then there's no way it'll operate the starter motor.

 

 

Steve, what actually happens is that a battery failure leaves you with a bike stuck in gear. Which can be even more inconvenient than one that won't start in neutral, because of (say) pushing around.

 

A dead bike is bad enough, one that can't be moved is the pits! This leads to a load of, bad tempered, 'DCT stuck in gear' posts which should really be 'battery problem' ones.

 

Like everything, it's personal choice. I always put mine into neutral and stopped it using the key (rather than the kill switch or stand switch). Same way I 'shut down' the computer rather than just yanking the plug out of the wall socket.

 

'Best practice' never bites you on the arse, 'Lazy' certainly can! :D 

 

Interestingly, and I will deny ever saying this, I miss the DCT. Shhhh! Don't tell anyone.. :) 

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Rocker66
12 minutes ago, Tex said:

 

 

Interestingly, and I will deny ever saying this, I miss the DCT. Shhhh! Don't tell anyone.. :) 

I miss my DCT as well. Mind you I missed the plaster when they took it off my leg and I don't want that back again either LOL.

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SteveThackery
1 hour ago, Tex said:

 

Steve, what actually happens is that a battery failure leaves you with a bike stuck in gear. Which can be even more inconvenient than one that won't start in neutral, because of (say) pushing around.

 

A dead bike is bad enough, one that can't be moved is the pits! This leads to a load of, bad tempered, 'DCT stuck in gear' posts which should really be 'battery problem' ones.

 

 

Although you can move a DCT round whether it's in gear or not because the clutches are disengaged unless the engine is running.  Hence the handbrake.

 

It is interesting, though, that the bike just suddenly cut out.  That definitely needs investigating.

 

Edited by SteveThackery
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SteveThackery
49 minutes ago, Rocker66 said:

I miss my DCT as well. Mind you I missed the plaster when they took it off my leg and I don't want that back again either LOL.

 

I love the DCT, and am only sorry it isn't available on many more bikes, including my beloved Versys.  :)

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3 minutes ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Although you can move a DCT round whether it's in gear or not because the clutches are disengaged unless the engine is running.  Hence the handbrake.

 

It is interesting, though, that the bike just suddenly cut out.  That definitely needs investigating.

 

 

Good point! And well presented! :D 

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4 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

 

So are you saying you don't select neutral before switching off?  It says in the owner's handbook you should do that.

 

If you don't, then as you say it will select neutral when you switch it back on.  People have argued that if the battery is failing it might not have enough grunt to operate the selector motor when you switch on, and thus won't let it start.  This sounds daft to me - surely if it won't operate the selector motor then there's no way it'll operate the starter motor.

 

 

Er. Up until this post ... yes :cry: Occasionally I have put the sidestand down first but only out of forgetfulness.  Will press to Neutral from now on.

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SteveThackery
2 hours ago, Morph said:

 

Er. Up until this post ... yes :cry: Occasionally I have put the sidestand down first but only out of forgetfulness.  Will press to Neutral from now on.

 

I feel bad about it now!  But I suppose it is probably best to go with the recommended method - as embee says, bike gearboxes change much more easily when in motion.

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