Clunky gear box - common?

[Tim O 40]

Morning All,

 

I continue to be delighted at my choice of an NC750X. I've done a few longish trips (about 250 miles a day) recently and it performs faultlessly apart from one thing. The gear box is very 'clunky'. In the recent hot weather in towns it felt almost as if there was no oil in the box at all (there is - I've checked!). It seems to be almost the worst of any Jap bike I've owned over the years. If I preload the clutch going up and get the double de-clutch right going down, I can live with it - but it's still not great. It's a 2014 and it's only got 4,500 miles on it. I bought it from a damn good - but Suzuki - dealer. Is there anything I should know that I can ask him to look at? Or is it "they all do that Sir?" If it's the latter, that's fine, but I thought I'd just ask. 

 

Many thanks everyone,

 

Tim.

[Guest bonekicker]

The NC as a noisy gear change--it got better with newer versions--even the DCT clunks when put in gear--earplugs--or music helps--if really concerned ask one of our members close to you for a meet somewhere and compare noises--the dealer probably wont be able to help very much--unless you really do have a problem--keep us informed to how it goes. 

[gonzo 2,211]

Had a girl biker friend with this prob on a 600 kwak some years ago she was a Rosper  gold rider  and used to ride it at 40/50 mph all the time ,she complained of a clunky gearbox, I told her it was because of the way she rode it, !!told her to rev it out much harder ,thats what there built for .After we both went out on it and i rode it like it should, the prob wasnt there,  the gearbox was as smooth as it should be,  Put some revs" init" man !!

[trisaki 2,029]

I change my oil at least half the mileage honda  say  and use an oil addative  - my gear change  for 80% of the time is lovely  - it does seem to be the low speed  changes are the worst 

[Trumpet 216]

Check that its not overfull of oil. Make sure its 10w30. Check you have correct free play at the clutch. After that, and you have fresh oil in it, there's not much else you can do.

[Trumpet 216]

1 hour ago, trisaki said:

I change my oil at least half the mileage honda  say  and use an oil addative  - my gear change  for 80% of the time is lovely  - it does seem to be the low speed  changes are the worst 

Ive found that too. Gearchanges get rough long before the recommended change interval. The gears in the gearbox shear the oil and it loses its multigrade capabilities.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

17 minutes ago, Trumpet said:

Ive found that too. Gearchanges get rough long before the recommended change interval. The gears in the gearbox shear the oil and it loses its multigrade capabilities.

 

Hold on a minute!  Have you proof of that?  Have you had the oil analysed?  Or is this just a personal theory expressed as a "fact"?

 

One thing that might cause clashy gearchanges is if the clutch is dragging - I'd check that.

 

[Spindizzy 7,109]

Its quite an agricultural gearbox. Especially between 1st and 2nd or changing down without a 'blip'. 

 

I changed my oil to 10W40 (which the workshop manual allows depending on temp of environment). Its Rock Oil Guardian as recommended (and serviced) by Trisaki , noticeably an improvement. Its a little clunky when hot, but not so much as it was before that oil.

 

Normal......

 

 

[renners 830]

Apart from the clunk when putting it into drive mode on both the X and integra I thought it was very good can't say it was noisy if I am honest during changes whilst moving.

[Trumpet 216]

2 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Hold on a minute!  Have you proof of that?  Have you had the oil analysed?  Or is this just a personal theory expressed as a "fact"?

 

One thing that might cause clashy gearchanges is if the clutch is dragging - I'd check that.

 

Yes I have, and yes on the clutch dragging, hence the question about free play on the cable.

[Trumpet 216]

Please, lets not start an oil thread, I have a pet hate for them..

Oil shearing

Just have a read around the sites, there's loads of information out there on oils. If a gearchange is a bit clunky, and none of the other things (Clutch drag/overfilling) are present, an oil change often improves it. And mine is clunkier when hot. and going into first gear. I though most Hondas did that !

Edited August 31, 2017 by Trumpet

[DaveM59 1,605]

I'll swap you...my Integra change is so smooth I can't tell it's changed almost like a CVT. I hear and feel the initial clunk into 1st from neutral and the change into 2nd is noticeable and normal but after that only the number on the dash seems to change. I wish all the changes were like 1st to 2nd.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

33 minutes ago, Trumpet said:

Please, lets not start an oil thread, I have a pet hate for them..

Oil shearing

Just have a read around the sites, there's loads of information out there on oils. If a gearchange is a bit clunky, and none of the other things (Clutch drag/overfilling) are present, an oil change often improves it. And mine is clunkier when hot. and going into first gear. I though most Hondas did that !

 

Trust me, I know all about oil shearing.  I wanted you to provide some proof that this is the cause of the clunky gearchange reported by the OP.   I think - as you made the original assertion - that the onus is on you to show that a significant amount of shearing is suffered by the oil in our NCs, and that such shearing then results in the clashy gearchange.

 

Or we could just agree that changing the oil might improve it.  

 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

By the way, excess cable slack is only one cause of clutch drag.  In my experience over the past 44 years of messing with bikes, the more common cause is distortion of the plates.  I test them on a piece of float glass.  

[Tim O 40]

Thank you to all of you - very helpful. I certainly didn't mean to "start an oil thread" - that was not my intention at all. However, if Spindizzy suggests that Rock Oil Guardian helps, I'll give it a go and thank you for that Spindizzy. It is also reassuring to hear that the box appears to be (to many) towards the agricultural end of design and I can live with that. 

 

An interesting intervention from Gonzo re "put some revs in it man". Not being used to such a low revving engine, I did that unconsciously when I first had it and hit the rev limiter a few times! 

 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

57 minutes ago, Tim O said:

It is also reassuring to hear that the box appears to be (to many) towards the agricultural end of design and I can live with that. 

 

The one in the DCT seems even worse (although I'm sure it isn't really).  It seems worse because it changes without you doing anything, so your brain doesn't automatically compensate for the crunch because you don't know it's coming.  The crunching in the lower gears from mine was quite alarming at first!

 

 

57 minutes ago, Tim O said:

Not being used to such a low revving engine, I did that unconsciously when I first had it and hit the rev limiter a few times! 

 

Mate, we've all been there!  Even though mine's a DCT I had to try it out in manual mode, of course, and the classic place for me to bump into the limiter was when hammering up slip-roads.

[Trumpet 216]

6 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Trust me, I know all about oil shearing.  I wanted you to provide some proof that this is the cause of the clunky gearchange reported by the OP.   I think - as you made the original assertion - that the onus is on you to show that a significant amount of shearing is suffered by the oil in our NCs, and that such shearing then results in the clashy gearchange.

 

Or we could just agree that changing the oil might improve it.  

 

Ok Steve. You trump me by a full two years of messing around with Bikes, engine rebuilds, and skillfully avoiding dealer servicing.  Lets be friends.

 

 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

[Guest bonekicker]

Yuk--Lets be friends--whatever next--Love You Stevy --Love You too Aly --then the hugging will start--then the tongues start diving into each others mouths--Yes seen it all before 

[Trumpet 216]

This is what I like about forums, you meet all sorts.. Keep posting, it breaks up a dull day at work. Personally, I can't vouch for your own personal experiences Bonekicker..

Edited September 1, 2017 by Trumpet

[Guest bonekicker]

Alan after being on this forum for a while--you will find-- just about anything goes 

[Bigglesaircraft 293]

I have not had any problems yet with my 2013 700XAD gearbox. It does clunk a little when cold when selecting 1st but all other selections whether up or down are usually a very smooth with a small nich. But it has only done 2000 Kms so maybe problems to come!

Edited September 2, 2017 by Bigglesaircraft

[Guest ChrisS]

Having made the transition from a 1980's BMW airhead, I find the DCT g/box a revelation! Only makes some noise at low speed changes, otherwise smooth and quiet.

 

the DCT box gets caught out on downchanges at times, but Isn't that the same with all auto boxes?

[SteveThackery 3,090]

3 minutes ago, ChrisS said:

Having made the transition from a 1980's BMW airhead, I find the DCT g/box a revelation! Only makes some noise at low speed changes, otherwise smooth and quiet.

 

Yes, I find the same thing: 1st and 2nd are the worst.  At higher speeds things do indeed become smooth and quiet.

 

3 minutes ago, ChrisS said:

the DCT box gets caught out on downchanges at times, but Isn't that the same with all auto boxes?

 

Absolutely.  We are stuck with the occasional glitchy response until automatic transmissions can read your mind and see the road ahead.

[Andy m 23,510]

I was once asked by a Swede what I was singing. It was minus ten so the oil in the Bungling Made Welleasy gearbox would have been like treacle. The song was the one about farm machinery by the Worzels and Sven had never heard of it.

 

Put earplugs in and if the speedo goes round its fine.

 

Andy