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2 days for a service?


Wedgepilot

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Wedgepilot

I just booked my 700X in at Chiswick Honda for it's 16k service, and was told they would need to keep it in for 2 days! Apparently checking the valves is so tricky it takes a whole extra day šŸ˜€

Ā 

I'm getting a loan bike, so not a biggie, but I was very surprised by this. Anyone else ever heard of this?

Ā 

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I thank you for your correction and apologise for my lack of eloquence. I intended to refer to anyone employed by a dealership who either described or found the process of adjusting the NC valve

Talking about 'tricky' valves.. Ā  Donkey's years ago I worked for a Ducati dealer (some poor bugger had to..) and shimming the desmodromic valve gear on those (bevel gear) models wasn't that

Valves need to be cold otherwise false readingsĀ  - I like toĀ do the biggie serviceĀ  over a couple of days but I do a lot more then the dealerĀ Ā 

trisaki

Valves need to be cold otherwise false readingsĀ  - I like toĀ do the biggie serviceĀ  over a couple of days but I do a lot more then the dealerĀ Ā 

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5 minutes ago, trisaki said:

Valves need to be cold otherwise false readingsĀ  - I like toĀ do the biggie serviceĀ  over a couple of days but I do a lot more then the dealerĀ Ā 

Ā 

There will always be a place for people like you:Ā people who care about the service they provide and do a top quality job at a fair price. Ā Not everyone just wants the cheapest deal. Ā You have my respect.

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MikeBike
36 minutes ago, Wedgepilot said:

I just booked my 700X in at Chiswick Honda for it's 16k service, and was told they would need to keep it in for 2 days! Apparently checking the valves is so tricky it takes a whole extra day šŸ˜€

Ā 

I'm getting a loan bike, so not a biggie, but I was very surprised by this. Anyone else ever heard of this?

Ā 

At 16k Mine needed every valve adjusting and new pads. It had 8 hours labour booked which they kindly reduced to 6 as a goodwill gesture. Ā£560

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Doing the valve clearances is not "tricky" for anyone who knows what they are doing, only for rock-apes. Plenty of youtube vids if you are interested in what it entails, need to drain/remove the rad but that's a 5min job.

Ā 

... and it doesn't take 8hrs, it just needs to be cold which is the onlyĀ reason for the 2 day stuff.

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Rocker66
13 minutes ago, embee said:

Doing the valve clearances is not "tricky" for anyone who knows what they are doing, only for rock-apes. Plenty of youtube vids if you are interested in what it entails, need to drain/remove the rad but that's a 5min job.

Ā 

... and it doesn't take 8hrs, it just needs to be cold which is the onlyĀ reason for the 2 day stuff.

I think it a bit unfair to refer to anyone who doesnā€™t know how to do the valve clearances as ā€œ rock apesā€ as they may have extremely good skills at something that you donā€™t

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13 minutes ago, Rocker66 said:

I think it a bit unfair to refer to anyone who doesnā€™t know how to do the valve clearances as ā€œ rock apesā€ as they may have extremely good skills at something that you donā€™t

They may well have expert skills elsewhere, but if they don't know how to do the valve clearances and find it "tricky" they shouldn't beĀ employed by a dealer to do so.

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Guest bonekicker

Being brought up repairing/servicing bikes/cars does make us members a little sceptical about how long and how much they charge-- what is easy for some others would find impossible to do--but they may have different skills we could not do-- that'sĀ why a lot of riders join forums like this or a local bike club--to ask advice and maybe someone will show them how to do a service--or do it for them-- dealers do overcharge that'sĀ a fact--but if no where else to go--that'sĀ what your stuck with--evening classes are a good to learn--watching youtube videos another.Ā :oldfart:Ā 

Rock Apes !!!!Ā :console:

Edited by bonekicker
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PoppetM
11 hours ago, Wedgepilot said:

I just booked my 700X in at Chiswick Honda for it's 16k service, and was told they would need to keep it in for 2 days! Apparently checking the valves is so tricky it takes a whole extra day šŸ˜€

Ā 

I'm getting a loan bike, so not a biggie, but I was very surprised by this. Anyone else ever heard of this?

Ā 

Ā 

Alan, Chiswick Honda told me that and I was booked on another S as a loan bikeĀ two weeks ago.

I dropped the bike off at 8am. By 9am I had the Vehicle Check video sent to me at work. By 10am I had the call about the front pads, so gave them the go ahead to replace it.Ā By 3pm it was ready to collect. So not feeling happy with the loan bike, I went and fetched my own bike.

Take the loan bike, and if they let you know it's ready same day, happy days :)Ā 

Edited by PoppetM
Forgot the brakes were done!
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Rocker66
8 hours ago, embee said:

They may well have expert skills elsewhere, but if they don't know how to do the valve clearances and find it "tricky" they shouldn't beĀ employed by a dealer to do so.

But your post didnā€™t say you were referring to people working at dealers it just suggested that anyone who couldnā€™t do the clearances was a rock ape.

Personally other than routine checks I do no maintanence on my bikes nor have any desire to do so. Had enough of doing stuff on my bikes years ago.I realise for a lot of people part of the fun of owning a bike is working on it but for me the joy comes from getting out and riding them.

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Mr Toad

Some people don't want to, or don't have the time, to get involved and simply pay someone else to do it while some of us find the engineering interesting and are more than happy to dive in and do it ourselves.

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Then there are the ones who do it themselves for financial reasons,Ā that Ā£560 that MikeBike paid will cover the cost of Tax, insurance and still leave some money forĀ fuel.

Ā 

My view is that servicing isn't hard, in fact it's designed to be as easy as possible. Many years ago I queried the high servicing costs on my Honda VF1000 and was told most of the cost was labour and much of that was time spent removing and replacing the plastic and ancillaries just to expose the engine so they could do the service. Doing the filters, plugs and other items didn't take long at all.Ā 

Ā 

I do my own maintenance and servicing, IĀ enjoy doing it. When the time comes to check and adjust my valve clearancesĀ I'm more than happy to do it myself. Adjusting the valves themselves is the easy part, a small spanner, a screwdriver and a set of feeler gauges. Getting to that point is the time consuming part as cooling system has to be drained and the the radiator removed. Again not hard to do but that's where most of the labour costs are and the price we pay for modern engines.Ā 

Ā 

Compare adjusting the valves on the NC to doing the same job on an old engine like Royal Enfield. On the Enfield you remove a small cover which exposes the push rods and adjusters. Sorting it out only takes minutes and other than the cover nothing else has to come off the bike.

Ā 

Ā 

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Rocker66

Iā€™m Ā sure that if I had been able to carry out my retirement plan to buy an old Brit bike I would have been happy to work on it as I would have been doing it for pleasure not because it was necessary. AS Mr Toad says it would also be much simpler especially as the bike I would really have wanted would have been a C15.

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1 hour ago, Rocker66 said:

But your post didnā€™t say you were referring to people working at dealers it just suggested that anyone who couldnā€™t do the clearances was a rock ape.

Personally other than routine checks I do no maintanence on my bikes nor have any desire to do so. Had enough of doing stuff on my bikes years ago.I realise for a lot of people part of the fun of owning a bike is working on it but for me the joy comes from getting out and riding them.

I thank you for your correction and apologise for my lack of eloquence.

I intended to refer to anyone employed by a dealership who either described or found the process of adjusting the NC valve clearances as "tricky", I was not intending to imply that the average Joe in the street who knows their limitations and doesn't delve into things they know nothing of (for reward) is in any way a rock-ape. Clearly I failed to differentiate these adequately. One would hope we pay the dealerĀ rates for expertise not because they find it tricky, I believe the latter falls into the "charlatan" category.

Apologies to any person who I have offended, andĀ all rock-apes who don't work at dealerships.

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Love working on my own bike (as my job is 99% theoretical), and achieving something gives me pleasure - however... have to say I look forward to taking my bike in for a service for the simple fact I love having a loan bike :-).Ā  If they were to give me a scooter, Grom, fireblade, anything, trying something new is the fun part - am I the only one who looks forward to a service ;-)

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Rocker66

I agree that having different bikes as loan bikes can be fun however it can be expensive if you enjoy it too much. On the other hand I have bikes that I was considering as my next bike as a loan bike only to find that it is not the bike I was expecting. The one I most remember was the 900 Hornet šŸ . With Sue being really into her 600 Hornet and the Hornets Nest I thought that the 900 would be ideal for me. Had one on loan overnight and couldnā€™t wait to take it back. Money saved.

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Talking about 'tricky' valves..

Ā 

Donkey's years ago I worked for a Ducati dealer (some poor bugger had to..) and shimming the desmodromic valve gear on those (bevel gear) models wasn't that 'easy'. Andy had been on a factory course so always took it on the chin and did them. Factory time was (I think) about 3.5 hours but Andy always took 4.5 to 5. We only ever charged the 'factory rate' of 3.5 and swallowed the difference. We also never charged for the shims (providing the old ones were in good shape, we merely swopped them over). Fair enough, so far?

Ā 

So, one customer had moved down from London and bought his 900SS in for a full service. When I gave him the bill he 'went off on one' claiming we hadn't done the valves! I told him we had and I had seen the guy doing it. "You can't have!" he snapped "My London dealer always charged me 6 hours labour at least!"

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He then looked down the list of parts used and played his trump card - "And you haven't charged me for any shims!"Ā IĀ suggested he go through and talk to Andy in the workshop.

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Now, Andy was a lovely man. But didn't really look it. Big, bearded, and with the look of Fidel Castro with toothache he was, shall we say, bloody scary looking! :DĀ 

Ā 

"This is your old oil, these are your old plugs, there's your old oil filter and there are the shims I took out and replaced with new ones!"

Ā 

I took enormous pleasure in suggesting he go back to London for services in future.. :)Ā 

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Guest bonekicker

Ā But that'sĀ were the problem lies-- some people just pay up--some question then pay up--some question then complain and maybe pay up--I would like to agree on a price before-- then stand watchingĀ whilst they did the work --then think in my own mind--that was easy-- so next time I will do it myself-- come on basic serving isĀ straightforward/easyĀ :oldfart: Ā Ā 

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Rocker66
3 minutes ago, bonekicker said:

Ā But that'sĀ were the problem lies-- some people just pay up--some question then pay up--some question then complain and maybe pay up--I would like to agree on a price before-- then stand watchingĀ whilst they did the work --then think in my own mind--that was easy-- so next time I will do it myself-- come on basic serving isĀ straightforward/easyĀ :oldfart: Ā Ā 

Just because itā€™s easy doesnā€™t mean everyone wants to do it. I can think of better ways to spend my time. Each to their own.

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13 minutes ago, bonekicker said:

Ā IĀ would like to agree on a price before-- then stand watchingĀ whilst they did the work --then think in my own mind--that was easy-- so next time I will do it myself-- come on basic serving isĀ straightforward/easyĀ :oldfart: Ā Ā 

Ā 

Awesome, Iā€™ll put you down for new shims on a Desmo Duck next week? :DĀ 

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Andy m

Service pricing is one you can't win because no one wants to pay and at least half the people involved don't really know what they are buying/selling.

Ā 

If you are charged parts and labour you want to know why it took so long.

If its fixed pricing maybe they don't do all the work (Suzuki dealer teleporter trick to get the plugs out a V-strom with the tank still on springs to mind).

If they seal it for life you'll want it repaired at the end of that life if it basically looks OK, which if designed to a given life it should.

Ā 

The only system that comes close is CPC/ rental. You pay your money and have a bike to ride. You bring it back once a year and its up to them if they service it well, badly or not at all because at the end of the term its theirs.Ā 

Ā 

I'm DIY because I find it theraputic, because servicing is never convienient during shop hours and because an overfilled oil tank or unlubricated cable or some other minor item will annoy me to the extent I'd end up doing it anyway. My valves are hydraulic, so I avoid that one.

Ā 

The biggest hassle with valves in my experience is the cover. You can put all the effort and care you like into the clearances and oil weeping because you don't have the feel for getting a gasket to compress evenly will ruin the job. The NC's cylinder forward set up does strike me as requiring care, light and an eye for detail.

Ā 

Andy

Edited by Andy m
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Anything is easy if you do it often enough. I used to be able to do the shims on the CBX 6 cylinder (24 valves) before morning coffee break. Although, if Iā€™m honest, it was mostly checking and changing the odd ones here and there. That reminds me, I still have a full shim kit for the DOHC Hondas of that era.. :)Ā 

Ā 

The point? Those who attempted that task without proper knowledge of the exact procedure would try to remove the cam cover before removing the revĀ counter drive gear.. resulting in catastrophic damage. Do your research (easy now we have the internet) before you get stuck in.Ā 

Ā 

Ā 

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Rocker66

Let me think how would I rather spend a winters day? Would it be grovelling about on the floor ofĀ a cold garage or shed getting my hands filthy and possibly bloody without even a cup of tea or being in a centrally heated lounge sitting in a comfy arm chair with my feet up glass of lager at my side and eating Ā a tasty takeaway whilst watching footie on the telly. Ā For me the latter wins every time although I know many wonā€™t agree with me but at the end of the day If I want to spend MY money on having someone else service my bike so I can spend my leisure time how I want thatā€™s my choice and if some other members think that makes me less of a motorcyclist then so be it..

Ā 

Edited by Rocker66
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PoppetM

I probably missed the bit where some said you were less of a motorcyclist if you don't do your own work...

Ā 

I know plenty that don't work in their own machines, but they have the licence, the bike Ā šŸ and possibly leathers - they are a motorcyclist (except th one I justĀ saw on the floor on my commute, didn't look good šŸ˜)

Ā 

Firstly, I don't know what I am doing, secondly I just don't have the time and I need a quick turnabout to have my bike for the purpose I bought it, my daily commute.Ā 

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One day (if retirement exists) I might look into doing a course, as it would be something that would interest me, but right now having a full time job, a hefty commute, a house to run and family to look after andĀ studying still...it isn't going to happen in the next few years.Ā 

Ā 

I still love riding it though! šŸ˜€

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Rocker66

Years ago I had a light hearted agreement with the mechanic at Geoff Darren M/Cs which was that I didnā€™t fix bikes and he didnā€™t Ā fix trains despite the fact that both jobs could sometimes involve replacing flat tyres.

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