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Engineer/mechanic advice requested please


Mister Paul

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As Brian Conley would say "it's only a scooter"  (puppet) . Who cares :0) not me or rocker for a start . Should have bought a proper bike . :0) that's why the first two letters say it all really.

trev I still want a corvette  c3 I think it's model number was . If I had a garage I would have one . Totally crass ,underpowered all plastic but   Shaped like a shark and pointy with big old arches . When I was a kid I thought why would you buy a hillman hunter when this exists :0)

I like them to be fair, a friend is considering selling his Range Rover but his misses is staying firm so he is waiting . He's done the configuration thing already. Me I keep driving past the Datsun shop , got my beady eye on a gt-r

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That was my next step!  

Summary, and update:   Honda UK offered me a year's additional warranty. I said that I was concerned about the resale value of the scoot and any future issues that might appear at some time

A few early production VFR 1200 engines were found to have manufacturing swarf in them. As a result Honda replaced the engines of the entire first production run, many of them unsold machines on the s

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I want a GTR too. But at £82K I suspect I will go on wanting one.. :D 

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Mister Paul

I'm not riding it. It's in the shed, as I have use of our car until Christmas. The shine has gone off the bike, and if I decide to take it up with Honda when I'm back in the UK then I don't want them asking why I'm still riding it if I'm so bothered. 

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Dude, the time to ‘take it up’ with Honda was when it failed. Complaining of loss of ‘shine’ weeks after the event? Seriously? 

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Graham NZ
5 hours ago, Tex said:

Dude, the time to ‘take it up’ with Honda was when it failed. Complaining of loss of ‘shine’ weeks after the event? Seriously? 

 

Must agree with Tex on this one.  Not to complain at the appropriate time and try to do it later is prevented by the legal principle of 'estoppel'.

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Mister Paul
7 hours ago, Tex said:

Dude, the time to ‘take it up’ with Honda was when it failed. Complaining of loss of ‘shine’ weeks after the event? Seriously? 

I took it up with Honda straight away. I got a response from them a few days ago (it's taken a few calls and a wait for them to reply with an email) and I've been in Romania for the last few days. They get the reply they asked for when I'm home on Monday. 

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1 hour ago, Graham NZ said:

 

Must agree with Tex on this one.  Not to complain at the appropriate time and try to do it later is prevented by the legal principle of 'estoppel'.

 

I respectfully disagree.  Tex and you may be right from a legal point of view, but not from a public relations view.  I would argue that Mister Paul was originally 'persuaded' by Honda and the dealer that there wasn't a problem.  However, perhaps there was a degree of coercion.  Only after one takes a few steps backwards, and gets the views of other people (via this forum, for example), does one realise that perhaps one has been bullied into accepting a poor deal.

 

I note some people here with a lot more knowledge of engineering than I have think that the engine might have suffered damage.  So, there is some doubt.  More importantly, how about loss of value?  If Mister Paul is asked, should he decide to sell the bike, if he's had any problems what is he going to say?  "Oh, a minor problem, early on.  Honda forgot to fit the head gasket at the factory.  I ran the bike for 1,800 miles before Honda dismantled the engine and installed a head gasket.  Yes, the brand new engine was being lubricated by a contaminated mix of oil and water for that entire period."  I know what I would do if I was a punter: I'd walk.

 

This is a PR disaster in the making.  Honda need to supply a new engine immediately.

Edited by DMB
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Andy m

Changing/fitting a head gasket is a once a year event. The dealers chief tech might have done it five times. Changing an engine is a ten year event and involves electrical connectors as noted above which mechanics are notably bad at.

 

No disrespect to Mr. Paul but his claim is fly **** to Honda. Look at how long BMW sales have been climbing against a steady howl about drive shaft spline failures, broken forks, immobiliser ring antennas etc. People buy a bike based on fantasies about sharing a tent with Charlie Bormann or getting their leg over the girl holding Rossis umbrella. Ural sales are up!

 

If it worries you, you trade it back to the dealer. Let them lie to the next bloke. Chances are he'll never know so won't worry.

 

Andy

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Graham NZ

A lot of good sense being shown in these posts.

My summary is this:  Paul should be given a new bike; a new engine would be the minimum compensation; Honda has estoppel on it's side but for good PR it should not pursue that and should provide either a new bike, or as a minimum a new engine with a new-bike warranty on it.

Go for broke, Paul.

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Honda quality assurance is an industry benchmark. That said, Honda have factories all over the world. Does anyone know where NC engines are built? For example, Swindon, Huston,Yekateringberg ( Siberia) the missing head gasket could be explained away by an alcohol fueled lunch break.

It is perhaps testament to the manufacturing tolerances of the machine build that the bike went so long " fault undetected".  Engine oil contamination of any sort isn't good. I would be primarily concerned with the crankshaft bearings taking a hit. New engine seems a fair claim.

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NC engine is built in Japan. The SH300? Not sure. 

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Mister Paul
17 minutes ago, Tex said:

NC engine is built in Japan. The SH300? Not sure. 

The bikes are built in Italy, so there's a chance the engine was as well. 

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1 hour ago, Mister Paul said:

The bikes are built in Italy, so there's a chance the engine was as well. 

 

Ah, well, if it’s Italian.. missing parts are just called ‘character’ :D 

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larryblag

What's "Estoppel"? Sounds German for brakes. "And to halt da vehicle you press Estoppel, heavy like".

 

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larryblag

Or loosen the head bolts slightly until the gasket Pops. Then nip them back up and take it back again with an "I told you so" attitude. Get money back.

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13 hours ago, Andy m said:

 

If it worries you, you trade it back to the dealer. Let them lie to the next bloke. Chances are he'll never know so won't worry.

 

 

Not sure if that was tongue in cheek.  If not, that's more ammo against Honda.  If Mister Paul has no option but to "trade it back to the dealer", presumably at a price which is considerably less than the price the bike would fetch if sold privately, he is out of pocket.  And why is he out of pocket?  Because Honda cocked up and failed to fit a head gasket.  Great.  I rest my case.

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5 hours ago, Mister Paul said:

The bikes are built in Italy, so there's a chance the engine was as well. 

I don't think there are built in Italy, think they were designed in Italy and made in Japan,

At least All mine ( 2x Integra  1X 750X and 1x X-ADV )have all said made in Japan on them....

Is Honda tellin fibs!

Edited by kayz1
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Guest bonekicker

Did Honda say it's the first missing head gasket ever--no one as reported this issue before?? Just like they are still doing with the crappy tyres we all had--after hundreds of complaints they replaced eventually changed them --either free of charge or customer paid part-- I know some will say I'm Honda bassing--No I'm not-- they should not fob the customer off--But they still do-- Do Honda not read posts on this forum? or others--its got to be one of the best ways of getting feedback from customers-- For 99% of the time we all praise Honda for the great quality of the bikes--we spend a lot of money with them--and also buy the extra accessories from them-- so why treat us like we are a pain in the arse--fob us off when things go slightly wrong--they should keep us happy/loyal like we are to them -- no matter what our personal views about this missing head gasket are-- the customer should have been made a solution to make him happy--if it's been done then ok-- saying he should lose money by part exchanging the bike is a NO NO--he as spent a lot of hard earned money already-- I agree that we should just get on with life 100% -- but dealing with a Multi Billion Pound Company against a single customer--does and is not fair in my book. :poke: 

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Mister Paul
6 hours ago, kayz1 said:

I don't think there are built in Italy, think they were designed in Italy and made in Japan,

At least All mine ( 2x Integra  1X 750X and 1x X-ADV )have all said made in Japan on them....

Is Honda tellin fibs!

The vast majority of SH300s are made in Italy. 

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Motorcycles broadly fall into two categories. Toys for rich kids..

 

 

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And ‘workhorse’. The NC (although, for one last time, that’s not what we are discussing) would lean towards that. Tough, durable, easy to maintain and cheap to run.

 

The SH300 is a workhorse. To quote an (Indian) advert from the 1940’s “They’re built like rocks to take hard knocks..”

 

But there are some rules that we in the West need to follow to avoid ‘first world’ problems. 

 

Don’t get your scooter wet.

 

 

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Never carry more than 6kg on the rear carrier.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Tex said:

Motorcycles broadly fall into two categories. Toys for rich kids..

 

 

E76E5509-9D52-46A5-968A-130A193766C0.jpeg

 

Tex - Is that another SH300 in the foreground?  If so, looks like Honda have forgotten to fit more than just a head gasket.

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No, that’s the ultimate in uselessness. A highly priced (and prized) piece of exotica that needs new crankcases every two hundred miles. A distance, it should be noted, that is less than a six lap TT race. Which is why nobody bothers to even enter those races on one. :) 

 

I’m not knocking them, just using them as an extreme example of a machine built to impress rather than to use. 

 

The SH300 is the exact opposite. No westerners ever stood open mouthed gazing at one desperate to raise the deposit. The SH is built to be used and, yes, abused. It will have suffered no damage from it’s birth defect. You couldn’t hurt one with a hand grenade. 

 

Engines are far tougher than one might imagine. Someone said that the compression raise by running without a gasket will have added extra strain to the bottom end. Oh! Jesus, stop you’re killing me! :D:D 

 

(We raise the compression on our Yams from a (measured) 9.5:1 to 13.5:1. Never have the slightest problem with the stock bottom end. We almost double the power the engine gives (167.5 bhp) and yet use stock cranks, con rods, seals etc.)

 

Scooters (Japanese ones, anyway) are built for abuse. Like the 125cc Learner bikes that go in for service with half a cup full of treacle in the sump. 

 

Yes, it was an unfortunate manufacturing mistake. I’m quite convinced that no damage will have been caused. But, the internet being what it is, enough doubt will have been sown to destroy the confidence of Mr Paul. He needs to contact H.U.K. on his return and say “Doubts have been raised about the long term effects of your manufacturing mistake - I think I would prefer the engine to be replaced”. And see what they say. 

 

We can’t complain about their attitude until we know what that attitude is. :) And, no, they don’t read forums. Why would any manufacturer care what the internet says? A bunch of guys who work behind the bacon counter at Sainsbury’s and once read a book on engines? 

 

 

 

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The thing is i thought engine assembly was a tray of components all of which must be fitted , and if any "indentations have any bits left its obvious to see.  I have watched engine Assemblys on you tube and my visit to the TRIUMPH factory a few years ago, As you know all bikes coming off the production line have all sorts of tests carried out before packing, how was the part missed,? A disgruntled worker ?

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