Suddenly needs oil ...

[TJW 44]

Hi all,

 

Just been wondering how often you have to top up the oil?

 

My 700X is now 5 years old, never really needed much oil topping up (bizarrely enough) in the first couple of years, but since about 2 years ago I noticed that this changed and that I need to top up a bit once in a while.

 

Just now I checked again (had annual service - including oil change - done 1,000 miles ago) and had to top up 500 mls to get the level somewhat between the two markers ... how weird is that.

 

Cheers,

TJW

[Andy m 23,513]

First question: are you very very consistent in how you check? Parking the other way round on your drive can change the level. There are plenty of over excited owners who put in ten teaspoons a day because the dealers floor slopes the other way. Did you check in your own way the minute it came back from the dealers?

 

Second question: Any external signs of where the oil is going? Burn it and you get smoke on acceleration. Leak it and you get oily streaks on the breather, or drain plug or whatever.

 

No 4-stroke engine "uses" oil. You may accept burning a bit is cheaper than doing the rings on a 100000 miler, but this comes on gradually.

 

Andy

[TJW 44]

Cheers, 

 

I didn't check it when it came back from the dealers, so it might actually be that they simply 'underfilled' when they changed the oil. All the other stuff you mention, no smoking on acceleration, no streaks, no leaks ... I normally check every 500 miles (skipped one check after it came back from the dealer) and check it the same way every time ...

 

TJW

[Bart Stilgo 428]

DCT or manual box

Oil quantity is different and sometimes the oil added for manual in the DCT will leave it exactly 500mls short

Happened to me.

[XXX 2,697]

On 12/27/2017 at 19:37, Andy m said:

There are plenty of over excited owners who put in ten teaspoons a day because the dealers floor slopes the other way. 

 

Andy

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[TJW 44]

9 hours ago, Bart Stilgo said:

DCT or manual box

Oil quantity is different and sometimes the oil added for manual in the DCT will leave it exactly 500mls short

Happened to me.

 

Mine is a manual ... I'll keep a close eye on oil consumption over the next months ...

[Dunnster 1,650]

My 700x will be 5 years old in March, no oil use or disappearing occurring yet, with mine. I only tend to check my oil 3 or four times through the year, no change on each inspection. I change my own oil, measure the new volume before filling, check it after filling, then after running the engine once it's cooled after looking for leaks, then the next day after my first commute, then maybe later in the week to make sure of no leaks and level is correct.

Hope yours is just an under filling, top it up and just keep an eye on it. 

[TJW 44]

I know I am taking this thread away from the original topic, but in case it turns out that it simply was a matter of underfilling when I had it serviced at a HONDA dealer it - once more - makes me think that it might be worth doing the services myself instead ...

 

Over the years I had quite a few problems: 

 

- the terminals of the battery were left too loose (causing the ECU to shut down the engine every time the loose connection was causing it to play up when riding the bike the day after the service)

- the indicator relay was causing trouble and when I replaced it myself I found that it was indeed not in the right position clipped to the holder but, in fact, hanging upside down (bottom up) on the wires and not anywhere near the clip - I assume it was left hanging there when the mechanic took the cover off

- and now the potentially underfilled oil ...

 

 

[Slowboy 20,430]

I thinks you've answered your own question.....🤔

 

Always do do my own servicing, on all three bikes, and on occasion help a few mates with their bikes too.

[Mike5100 2,061]

I remember slating a dealer on here because I thought they had underfilled the oil after a service and I put a load more in. It wasn't until I read the user manual much later that I realised I had checked the oil on the sidestand (as per checking the chain), and it made a huge difference if I sat astride the bike and checked it with the bike vertical.

Mike

[Defender 3,837]

3 hours ago, Mike5100 said:

I remember slating a dealer on here because I thought they had underfilled the oil after a service and I put a load more in. It wasn't until I read the user manual much later that I realised I had checked the oil on the sidestand (as per checking the chain), and it made a huge difference if I sat astride the bike and checked it with the bike vertical.

Mike

Its an easy thing to do, RTFM!

[Andy m 23,513]

No one will ever take the same care you do. No one will be as available as you are.

 

Dealer techs are human and while they should know the difference between DCT and manual some will assume they are the same. I train truck technicians and you get everything from the ones wasted by not working for NASA and the ones who shouldn't be trusted to take Lego apart.  Some have brains, some make up for not being brain surgeons by reading the book, some don't give a ****. The better ones get nothing extra for doing a good job, in fact they usually get more hassle by having the worst jobs dumped on them or being made responsible for idiots. 

 

I'd define yourself a routine (same spot on your drive, after a 10 minute plus ride, after you've taken your lid off and said hello to the dog etc.) and come back to this in 500 miles.

 

Andy 

[Graham NZ 1,186]

A couple of reasons I've always preferred to change the oil in my vehicles myself are that then I can drain the oil while it's hot and has not stood for long since the engine was stopped and then leave the drain plug out for the oil residue to drain out overnight.  The first reason is often inconvenient to a dealer and the second would be a problem when they have limited time to devote to a job if money is to be made.

 

Dealers don't like anyone else to service new vehicles under warranty but legally they can't prevent it.

 

My other bike since new has needed top ups totaling about 500ml between 8,000km changes.  Eleven years later nothing has changed and it seems to run better all the time.  A little oil use worries me much less than when none at all is used between changes.

 

 

[embee 7,288]

All engines use oil. Some of the lost volume gets made up with fuel and water and similar crud usually. A modern well designed and manufactured engine will use very little oil when used "normally". Usually for cars no oil is needed between services (unless it specifies very high service intervals).

Historically bores were seldom (never) very round and straight, and when the top and bottom were bolted into place they were even further out, and when heated they went different again. Design analysis now allows much better bore stability when bolting and heating are included, and modern manufacturing methods ensure the optimum real-world condition in the assembled engine (bores finished with a "honing plate" bolted on to simulate cylinder head clamp loads).

Piston rings can only accommodate a certain amount of out-of-round. The amount depends on the "order" of the error, first order is size, second order is ovality, fourth order is usually lobing resulting from bolting the head down etc. (four leaf clover shape). The higher the order the smaller the allowable error for the rings to conform to. The development of thinner rings has improved the conformability greatly, look at rings from a 1960s engine and compare to a modern design. This gives thinner oil films and reduced blowby, all good news. Advances in materials and oils allows an engine to be durable even with reduced oil film thicknesses.

This is the best example I can find easily of an empirical plot of allowable bore distortion vs order

 

Always ensure the engine is not overfilled with oil, this is generally bad news for various reasons, including higher oil consumption.

[Trumpet 216]

Another gotcha is setting off on a grand tour after local use only,  and suddenly running low in oil after the extended journey times burn off all that fuel and water content that has built up over time ..

Edited January 1, 2018 by Trumpet

[trisaki 2,029]

I've found  over the years that if the bike was used more in town stop start  it used more oil than out on the duel carriageway   getting up to temperature  and steady throttle