Dealer adjusted the slack too tight

[Defender 3,837]

4 hours ago, hypnotic said:

Maybe their service department is good but the sales are horrible. I paid a deposit for my NC with them initially but had to wait 3 weeks for the bike to be delivered. When the bike arrived they told me they sold it to me under the last year's price and asked me to pay additional £300. Even though I had a contract they refused to give the bike for agreed price, hence I went to 1st line motorcycles. Having 2 bikes my experience so far is that there is no good mechanic, I tried 4 of them. Let's see if I will ever find the right one. I'm a perfectionist and want everything to be done according to the spec, so maybe I ask too much as I don't see other people complaining as much as myself :-)

 

With regards to wheel nut, I set the torque to 80 Nm instead of 98 Nm that is specified in the manual. 80 is definitely more than enough as I had to a lot of resistance before the click. I also mark all important nuts and bolts with the white marker (draw the line across the nut and static part of the bike) and every time I take a brake I go around the bike to inspect them in case any of them starts coming off (learned this after my mudguard went off)

I too had a couple of bad experiences from Honda Chiswick when trying to by a bike from them, however I did buy my Honda car from there before that.

I went to Firstline a few of years ago, not impressed really, they used to have a good reputation many years ago, sad when a good dealer goes down hill.

I have been using HGB in Ruislip for my NC'X and MSX125, but I may try Hatfields in Crowthorn this time though.

[Bart Stilgo 428]

I have about 5K miles on the DCTX and still cant adjust the chain

The last time I tried I had to put it back to the original setting.  Not even a 1/12 of a turn on the adjusting nuts was possible.

Would chain tension be part of a PDI if so why is there any reason to adjust the tension after 600 miles?

Is the laser thingy any good for wheel alignment?

Cheers all

 

 

[Rocker66 34,437]

11 minutes ago, Bart Stilgo said:

I have about 5K miles on the DCTX and still cant adjust the chain

The last time I tried I had to put it back to the original setting.  Not even a 1/12 of a turn on the adjusting nuts was possible.

Would chain tension be part of a PDI if so why is there any reason to adjust the tension after 600 miles?

Is the laser thingy any good for wheel alignment?

Cheers all

 

 

Because a new chain can stretch in the first few miles.

[hypnotic 31]

11 minutes ago, Bart Stilgo said:

I have about 5K miles on the DCTX and still cant adjust the chain

The last time I tried I had to put it back to the original setting.  Not even a 1/12 of a turn on the adjusting nuts was possible.

Would chain tension be part of a PDI if so why is there any reason to adjust the tension after 600 miles?

Is the laser thingy any good for wheel alignment?

Cheers all

 

 

Laser is brilliant, simple to use and you don't have to take the mudguard off like with some other alignment tools.

[Bart Stilgo 428]

13 minutes ago, Rocker66 said:

Because a new chain can stretch in the first few miles.

Rocker, How?

Chain 'stretch' describes wear and tear.  Chain links do not stretch

The inner and outer plates have a fixed pitch the only way the chain can 'stretch' is for wear to take place on the components that are moving against each other, I think.

If after 'a few' miles from new there is sufficient chain 'wear' for adjustment to be needed then it should be replaced as will last no time at all (IMO)

Are we talking myths or facts

Comments welcome.

 

[Rocker66 34,437]

Just now, Bart Stilgo said:

Rocker, How?

Chain 'stretch' describes wear and tear.  Chain links do not stretch

The inner and outer plates have a fixed pitch the only way the chain can 'stretch' is for wear to take place on the components that are moving against each other, I think.

If after 'a few' miles from new there is sufficient chain 'wear' for adjustment to be needed then it should be replaced as will last no time at all (IMO)

Are we talking myths or facts

Comments welcome.

 

Well I have owned quite a few brand new bikes and in most cases there has been no stretch by the first service but on some occasions a slight adjustment has been required so I guess a check is worthwhile. I would rather it be checked and no adjustment be required than it not be checked and some slackness existing. At the end of the day it’s not closing you anything so why not let them do it.

[Tex 36,817]

Bob, I think Rocker ( being ‘old school’) is mostly remembering the bad old days of pre O ring chains. A new, freshly lubricated chain could be fitted and perfectly adjusted. Then after a (ridiculously) small mileage the lube would have squeezed out and the resulting ‘sag’ in the chain gave the impression of stretch. The same thing still happens with those chains, by the way, and we fit a new one just before the last lap of practice at the TT. After that lap we always have to adjust it and it’s then good for the race.

 

O ring chains don’t suffer the same way which tends to lend weight to my theory. 

[Rocker66 34,437]

6 minutes ago, Tex said:

Bob, I think Rocker ( being ‘old school’) is mostly remembering the bad old days of pre O ring chains. A new, freshly lubricated chain could be fitted and perfectly adjusted. Then after a (ridiculously) small mileage the lube would have squeezed out and the resulting ‘sag’ in the chain gave the impression of stretch. The same thing still happens with those chains, by the way, and we fit a new one just before the last lap of practice at the TT. After that lap we always have to adjust it and it’s then good for the race.

 

O ring chains don’t suffer the same way which tends to lend weight to my theory. 

I still see no harm in the tension being checked at the first service though. As I said it’s not costing the customer anything.

[Bart Stilgo 428]

Cheers Tex and Rocker

I do like the idea of somebody checking over the bike at 600miles to ensure all is good before we go out and put some real miles on it.

And I have no experience of standard chains and how they react from new.

 

Love a good discussion.

 

[Guest machinman]

IMO people over analyse chains.

This is what works for me:

New chain, lube and adjust.

10,000 miles change front sprocket.

20,000 miles change complete set and start again.

I never adjust in between, though i keep the chain wet with gear oil, which does fling (self cleaning?), but messy.

This regime wont suit a lot of folk, but it does work.

My point being that modern chains are a mavellous thing and very tolerant of our inconsistencies.

I used to mess with the chain every week and gained bugger all.

 

[Mr Toad 9,022]

7 hours ago, machinman said:

IMO people over analyse chains.

This is what works for me:

New chain, lube and adjust.

10,000 miles change front sprocket.

20,000 miles change complete set and start again.

I never adjust in between, though i keep the chain wet with gear oil, which does fling (self cleaning?), but messy.

This regime wont suit a lot of folk, but it does work.

My point being that modern chains are a mavellous thing and very tolerant of our inconsistencies.

I used to mess with the chain every week and gained bugger all.

 

 

My current bikes, Bonneville and NC750X both have chains, my previous two bikes were both shaft drive so when I got the T100 I was a bit paranoid about the chain. I too remember the old chains. 

 

I checked it regularly and kept it clean and lubed but it never needed adjusting from one check to the next. I've now covered 6000 miles and still the chain is within the correct adjustment range. The only time I did adjust it was when when I swapped the front sprocket for one with one less tooth.

 

It's the same story with the NC, I check it and it's fine.

[Andy m 23,522]

+2, ****y Indian chains on the Bullet snapped one and adjusted the other a lot, while the NC, WeeStrom, Bonneville, XT etc. got adjusted twice a year I switched tyres, once if I didn't.

 

Andy

[Graham NZ 1,186]

On the stand, tightest spot and the chain can be lifted with some effort to touch the rubbing strip with my S.

 

Adjustment is easy enough compared with the Bonneville I did a chain adjustment on recently.  Both mufflers had to be removed to get the bike onto a workshop stand but only the right one needed to be removed to get a tool onto the axle bolt!

[hypnotic 31]

Not sure if it has something to do with the chain slack, do you guys have minor jerking (while riding not changing gears) when riding in 1st or 2nd gear?

[neil700 72]

Hi Stephanos, check the free play in your throttle cable. May be tight ( not enough). Had the same issue and introduced a bit more slack and now no problems... no idea why but it does make a difference

[hypnotic 31]

22 minutes ago, neil700 said:

Hi Stephanos, check the free play in your throttle cable. May be tight ( not enough). Had the same issue and introduced a bit more slack and now no problems... no idea why but it does make a difference

It's around 6mm so definitely not that. Maybe is the fact that is impossible to keep the exact amount of throttle open hence jerks are created in low gears.

[hypnotic 31]

I just called the dealer who told me they use 10-40w oil rather than 10-30w as per specification, could this have caused any damage after doing 100 miles? I am planning to replace it this weekend. All in all, dealers couldn't care less about our bikes.

Edited May 10, 2018 by hypnotic

[Rocker66 34,437]

19 minutes ago, hypnotic said:

I just called the dealer who told me they use 10-40w oil rather than 10-30w as per specification, could this have caused any damage after doing 100 miles? I am planning to replace it this weekend. All in all, dealers couldn't care less about our bikes.

Again it may be true of some dealers but certainly not all of them. There are some really good dealers out there that go out of their way to help and branding them all the same is really unfair. If you don’t like your dealer just use a different one I mean if you had a bad meal at a restaurant would you say all restaurants serve bad meals or would you just use a different one for future meals.

[Andy m 23,522]

Leave it in, you are doing more harm running with no oil while the pump primes, disturbing aluminium threads etc.

 

10W30 means its a 10 on their viscosity scale when cold, 30 when hot.

10W40 is exactly the same cold and 40 when hot

 

30 means 9.3 to 12.5 cSt, 40 12.5 to 16.3 at 100 degrees. 

 

Given our oil is picked for the whole of Europe from Southern Italy to the middle of Norway and the 40 oil passes through the 30's range, it'll be fine, maybe better. The NC is half a car engine anyway, so doesn't need this level of detail applied. Racing Ducati it ain't.

 

The fact 10W40 is more common and cheaper should of course be reflected in the price. Bike manufacturers specify golden unicorn oil in unobanium cans for half a Civic for one reason and one only, it means the oil companies give them it free for the factory in the hope you'll pay 3 kidneys and two first-born children per thimbleful in the aftermarket.

 

Andy

Edited May 10, 2018 by Andy m

[Rocker66 34,437]

56 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Leave it in, you are doing more harm running with no oil while the pump primes, disturbing aluminium threads etc.

 

10W30 means its a 10 on their viscosity scale when cold, 30 when hot.

10W40 is exactly the same cold and 40 when hot

 

30 means 9.3 to 12.5 cSt, 40 12.5 to 16.3 at 100 degrees. 

 

Given our oil is picked for the whole of Europe from Southern Italy to the middle of Norway and the 40 oil passes through the 30's range, it'll be fine, maybe better. The NC is half a car engine anyway, so doesn't need this level of detail applied. Racing Ducati it ain't.

 

The fact 10W40 is more common and cheaper should of course be reflected in the price. Bike manufacturers specify golden unicorn oil in unobanium cans for half a Civic for one reason and one only, it means the oil companies give them it free for the factory in the hope you'll pay 3 kidneys and two first-born children per thimbleful in the aftermarket.

 

Andy

Surely it’ based on the Honda Jazz technology not a Civic and it’s not actually simply half of one of those as has been discussed previously.

[trisaki 2,029]

1 hour ago, hypnotic said:

I just called the dealer who told me they use 10-40w oil rather than 10-30w as per specification, could this have caused any damage after doing 100 miles? I am planning to replace it this weekend. All in all, dealers couldn't care less about our bikes.

10w30 is perfectly safe to use as is 10w40  I prefer to use 10w30 in my customers dct bikes they tell me it changes gear better   I'm going to be using 10w30 in my manual Nc to go to Scotland and back 

Edited May 10, 2018 by trisaki

[Andy m 23,522]

 

20 minutes ago, Rocker66 said:

Surely it’ based on the Honda Jazz technology not a Civic and it’s not actually simply half of one of those as has been discussed previously.

 

All four wheeled boxes are the same to me, and its probably 36.29749%, but you are closer for sure.

 

Doesn't make me worry any more about using 10W40 in a low revving motor like the NC.

 

Andy

[Tex 36,817]

Andy is exactly right, out in the ‘real world’ there’s not a scrap of difference between 10W-30 and 10W-40. 

[hypnotic 31]

1 hour ago, Tex said:

Andy is exactly right, out in the ‘real world’ there’s not a scrap of difference between 10W-30 and 10W-40. 

Do you think that tight chain could have caused some damage inside the engine that created jerks?

[hypnotic 31]

3 hours ago, Rocker66 said:

Again it may be true of some dealers but certainly not all of them. There are some really good dealers out there that go out of their way to help and branding them all the same is really unfair. If you don’t like your dealer just use a different one I mean if you had a bad meal at a restaurant would you say all restaurants serve bad meals or would you just use a different one for future meals.

Can you recommend one? I dont mind travelling up to 60 miles out of London if they will  do a good job.