Which brake pad for better braking?

[Newoldbiker 45]

This may have been mentioned before but I couldn't find the thread.

 

My brake pads are EBC HH.  Just recently however they feel as through they have less 'bite'.  I changed them last October.

Have heard that SBS Ceramic pads may be better?  Or does anyone else have a better recommendation? Also heard braided hoses may make a difference too?

I have a 2013 700s - 34K miles now

 

Thanks 

[skorpion 945]

32 minutes ago, Newoldbiker said:

This may have been mentioned before but I couldn't find the thread.

 

My brake pads are EBC HH.  Just recently however they feel as through they have less 'bite'.  I changed them last October.

Have heard that SBS Ceramic pads may be better?  Or does anyone else have a better recommendation? Also heard braided hoses may make a difference too?

I have a 2013 700s - 34K miles now

 

Thanks 

 

Try these first  they won't break the bank, been running them for over 2,000 miles now far better than others I have tried.

 

https://www.that auction site.co.uk/itm/HONDA-NC-750-X-NC-750-XE-14-15-Front-Sintered-HH-Race-Pads-/222338475378?hash=item33c467e572

 

[TheEnglishman 401]

 

EBC Sintered.  I've had, heard and seen so many cheap, unknown branded pads come apart over the years it's just not funny.  

 

http://dkblog.wpengine.com/blog/2014/03/10/motorcycle-brake-pads-sintered-vs-organic/

[larryblag 14,236]

I think the ceramic ones are designed more for race rather than road use with a need to get fully warm before they start to work properly (someone correct me if I'm wrong here please?) 

I fitted ebc Road spec ones to a HD Sportster a few years ago which improved the feel no end. 

[arengle 449]

if you really want good breaking I think you will need to use the pads that are attached to a CBR

[Foxy 4,334]

3 hours ago, larryblag said:

I think the ceramic ones are designed more for race rather than road use with a need to get fully warm before they start to work properly (someone correct me if I'm wrong here please?) 

I fitted ebc Road spec ones to a HD Sportster a few years ago which improved the feel no end. 

Does that mean you could actually feel the bike slowing down?  A re-occurring theme with me but I changed my Sportster to the R model for the twin disc, a throw out anchor would work better than the single affair never mind the pads

[commuter 262]

On 6/18/2018 at 14:57, Newoldbiker said:

This may have been mentioned before but I couldn't find the thread.

 

My brake pads are EBC HH.  Just recently however they feel as through they have less 'bite'.  I changed them last October.

Have heard that SBS Ceramic pads may be better?  Or does anyone else have a better recommendation? Also heard braided hoses may make a difference too?

I have a 2013 700s - 34K miles now

 

Thanks 

There is another way to look at bike performance in general. brakes, tyres, engine suspension, rider. If you are finding that the brakes aren't good enough, ask yourself are they crap by design?  are they crap because there is something wrong with them? are they crap because I am not modifying my riding style to suit my machine, am I riding appropriately for my machines performance or the roads I choose to use?, did I buy the right bike?

 Some things are difficult to alter but other things are quite simple to solve. Its down to personal choice as to how one chooses to deal with any  shortfall. If my suspension seems poor, my tyres dont  seem to grip and my brakes seem barely work then, having checked that  nothing is essentially at fault , I modify how I ride to suit the bike.

Ride a moped like a fireblade and you are going to find that everything is crap  but ride it like a lowly powered, underbraked skinny tyred shopping trolley and every corner successfully negotiated  at speeds exceeding 30 mph are a cause for minor celebration. Managing to stop when Mr Audi chooses to overtake you and slap on his ABS at the zebra crossing means you clocked him coming in the mirrors, saw the pedestrian and anticipated Mr Audi's every move. Ride to suit your bike. The rider is the biggest variable.

 So in answer to your query, one mans brilliant brakes are another mans pathetic brakes. Ask yourself , have your brakes seemed to loose their bite because the weather is dryer and you are travelling at higher speeds on more grippy roads? ( not wet)

[ste7ios 469]

Personally I find EBC HH (double sintered) equal to the Nissin (Honda) brake pads, maybe a little more  aggressive. Other people prefer the more progressive, as they say, Nissin’s brake pads or Brembo’s...

 

In general double sintered brake pads offer the best performance...

 

The following may help:

https://ebcbrakes.com/articles/best-motorcycle-brakes/

https://ebcbrakes.com/technical_ebc_brakes_blog/how-to-choose-best-brake-pads-for-motorcycles/

 

Brembo has this chart:

 

All of their sintered pads have similar performance that fluctuates at various temperatures. Their organics (CC - Carbon Ceramic) have much lower performance and you’ve to keep them warm if you need better braking...

 

Andy, feel free to correct me if my understanding is wrong.

Edited June 30, 2018 by ste7ios

[Iron horse 121]

I have EBC HH too. As good as they get realistically. If they have lost 'bite' might be worth giving the pads and calipers a good clean with a change of brake fluid. 

[NiceBlueNC 10]

Why use sintered or HH pads on NC? EBC kevlar organic or semi will feel a lot better. metal brakes are designed for more hardcore riding style.

[skorpion 945]

On 27/07/2018 at 16:11, NiceBlueNC said:

Why use sintered or HH pads on NC? EBC kevlar organic or semi will feel a lot better. metal brakes are designed for more hardcore riding style.

 

Sintered are standard fit from Honda. Never use pads that are inferior to OEM.

Edited July 30, 2018 by skorpion

[NiceBlueNC 10]

On 7/30/2018 at 21:03, skorpion said:

 

Sintered are standard fit from Honda. Never use pads that are inferior to OEM.

not entirely true, makers design their production lines to share as much components as possible.

If that statement was true, why use any other tyre brand? if honda fit bridgestone battlewings, should you stay on them? you can claim that moving to a sport tour tyre is not inferior, that will be incorrect as the type and purpose are different.

There is no external testing source that can prove or provide you with the info that you need about inferior or superior parts.

 

Brake pads from different materials serve different usage, there is no inferiority or superiority among the different pad materials.

[Andy m 23,513]

On 30/06/2018 at 17:44, ste7ios said:

 

Andy, feel free to correct me if my understanding is wrong.

 

You are spot on.

 

My only additional thought is that while I can detect a 0.05% change in slip via the ABS sensors, what is under discussion here is subjective. Take an NC (a loaner is best) on a dry road and pull the lever all the way back to the bars. The wheel will try to lock, the ABS will cycle and most riders will expect a bill from either the dry cleaners or undertakers. We use less than 10% of the performance.

 

What the dreaded scribblers at MCN go on about is feel. Its how for a given (low) force applied to the control a low but stable deceleration is achieved. A crappy Chinese pad (Golffren springs to mind) with odd sized slider holes will make a difference, but mostly its the master cylinder ratio (big to small = hair trigger, small to big = Mr. Kipling). "New Sintered preparation H with added zing and double D underwired mountings" is mostly just washing powder level advertising guff from the manufacturers. Brake pads are mostly carbon black, chalk and sand, that are very easy to market when they are pretty much the same. Look how magnified the scale on the chart is, its basically a flat line with noise.

 

Honda purchasing decisions are made on multiple level reasoning from price to reliability of supply to who put the best party on. So long as the brakes pass type approval and don't give warranty hassle the rest is commercial. Brembo don't make pads, they have their branding added by their supplier.

 

Personally I fit a brand I know has something to loose. Honda, Brembo, Nissin , Ferodo, EBC... Three of which are the same item in a different package if I guessed right.

 

Andy

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Andy m

[skorpion 945]

7 hours ago, NiceBlueNC said:

not entirely true, makers design their production lines to share as much components as possible.

If that statement was true, why use any other tyre brand? if honda fit bridgestone battlewings, should you stay on them? you can claim that moving to a sport tour tyre is not inferior, that will be incorrect as the type and purpose are different.

There is no external testing source that can prove or provide you with the info that you need about inferior or superior parts.

 

Brake pads from different materials serve different usage, there is no inferiority or superiority among the different pad materials.

 

Agreed that you can use a low spec organic brake pad, but these are not specified for heavy/fast bikes, manufactures have to specify a pad that works ok for use on all types of road for that particular vehicle.

 

If you check out the Brembo chart that ste7ios kindly added, you see that the organic CC compound pad does not even at it's best have a braking efficiency near the lowest of the other three sintered pads, using these say in the Alps or the steep Lake District passes you will find your brakes lacking, smoking, foul smelling, and wishing you hadn't fitted parts inferior to OEM.

[Andy m 23,513]

40% C of F is stoppie territory on decel (tyre to road limit is often lower, is lower in the wet) and is the pad to disc factor not the overall. 95 times out of a hundred you are braking from ambient (25C today, 5C in 6 months time), so not even over the start line on the lower scale. The bit before the curve is not a direct extension. No info on there about fade or warm-up or feel, it tells you peak, bedded performance only. Its race track data.

 

The fact your twin disc set up never heats the things so they glaze and the tyre area is mismatched to the dusc area (C of F times area times clamping force etc.) and that the open mount collects crap so the pistons stick is a way bigger worry. The CC may be better after 3 months due to the conditioning and the fact you want to check brake not do stoppies.

 

I bet the price matches the chart though. I bet Brian for one will happily pay more for the green line?

 

Andy

[Slowboy 20,426]

45 minutes ago, Andy m said:

I bet Brian for one will happily pay more for the green line?

 

Andy

I'm listening, anything that will improve the C90 so that it leaves the skid marks on the road rather than in my intimate apparel when braking hard would be an improvement.

Although paying more is a concept I might struggle with....

"When you've gone through the hedge, no-one can hear you scream....."

Brian

[Andy m 23,513]

SLS Drum? I could go look in the manual, but that'll involve stairs, which may be dangerous. So,

 

1. Strip, clean, grease the pivots and heals, check the springs. 

2. Take a look at the drum. I hope its a like an old 78 with the odd spiral groove? Crazy paving or maps of Mars mean its stuffed. 

3. If the lining has a mirror finish it needs to go. Likewise, grooves and lumps. Harder is deciding to bin otherwise good shoes, but starting from new is easier.

4. Adjust it up. You want free running with the cam lever behind its peak and a tiny bit of slack in the cable. The idea is that with the most tension in the cable you can manage everything is at 90 degrees/ peak.

5. Take if for a ride and perform the Italian tune up. Snubs, hard stops, even a bit of dragging it. You want it to sizzle when you spit on it, but not get to smoking/stinking. We are trying to heat it to cook off glaze and contamination and get the shoe to fit exactly to the drum without damaging bonded material or changing metallurgy.

6 Repeat steps 1 and 4

7. Give up and buy a new one with a disc!

 

Andy

 

Andy  

[Slowboy 20,426]

12 hours ago, Andy m said:

SLS Drum? I could go look in the manual, but that'll involve stairs, which may be dangerous. So,

 

1. Strip, clean, grease the pivots and heals, check the springs. 

2. Take a look at the drum. I hope its a like an old 78 with the odd spiral groove? Crazy paving or maps of Mars mean its stuffed. 

3. If the lining has a mirror finish it needs to go. Likewise, grooves and lumps. Harder is deciding to bin otherwise good shoes, but starting from new is easier.

4. Adjust it up. You want free running with the cam lever behind its peak and a tiny bit of slack in the cable. The idea is that with the most tension in the cable you can manage everything is at 90 degrees/ peak.

5. Take if for a ride and perform the Italian tune up. Snubs, hard stops, even a bit of dragging it. You want it to sizzle when you spit on it, but not get to smoking/stinking. We are trying to heat it to cook off glaze and contamination and get the shoe to fit exactly to the drum without damaging bonded material or changing metallurgy.

6 Repeat steps 1 and 4

7. Give up and buy a new one with a disc!

 

Andy

 

Andy  

 

Yup, done all the above except 7, although I do have a set of plans I've put together to do a disc conversion with an Innova wheel, I have seen others where they've done the same with varying degrees of success. 

The drum is in good shape with a decent finish, having only done 14,000 miles. 

I have also looked at making it a twin leading shoe, that should bring about some improvement.

EBC grooved shoes help.

My C90 brakes are actually pretty good when compared with its peers, but that is setting the bar very low indeed.....😁

Maybe when I get my Altbergs re-soled, I could get some new ones from ferodo😎

Brian

Edited August 4, 2018 by slowboy

[makman 975]

My EBC HH have lasted just on 4000 miles. Admittedly all my riding is in the stop start of city commuting. Have SBS HH to change to for a comparison. After that Honda OEM will be my next purchase.

[Iron horse 121]

When I had the Fz6 with twin discs and no abs, it was very easy to lock up. I think this ultimately contributed to the accident that caused it to be written off. Pedestrian jumped in front of me, I jumped on the brakes and the front wheel washed out and down we went. ABS would have likely saved the day, but the single disc of the NC is ultimately more progressive. I think there have been times where I have braked hard without triggering the ABS that might have been a lock up on the old bike.

 

I've never had a time where I've thought the brakes aren't good enough, although mine have lost their edge too but time for new pads very soon anyway. I'll give the calipers a good clean and will change the fluid as it is only a few quid and a 20 min job

[Guest DelBoy]

Fitted the EBC V pads (Semi Sintered) to mine. Big improvement over OEM and wont wear the pads/rotors like HH will.

They work just fine.

[Iron horse 121]

6 hours ago, DelBoy said:

Fitted the EBC V pads (Semi Sintered) to mine. Big improvement over OEM and wont wear the pads/rotors like HH will.

They work just fine.

Might give them a try. Did notice a bit more wear with the HH

[Swissheavy 186]

9 hours ago, DelBoy said:

Fitted the EBC V pads (Semi Sintered) to mine. Big improvement over OEM and wont wear the pads/rotors like HH will.

They work just fine.

Thanks for that. I’ve bought a set from Demon Tweeks on your pointer.

[NiceBlueNC 10]

I just fitted the "EBC Brakes British Made Kevlar® Organic FA Series Brake Pads to fit Front Right" FA196 to mine.

I can't really compare braking scientifically ... but they do feel on par with original.

 

However something bothered me while taking apart the original brakes , look the image, you can see the right and left pads but the 2 other parts I can't find mention anywhere on the internet.

They were attached to the left pad like a spacer of some sort, trying to fit the new pads with it was is impossible since there is no space for the brake disk , without it the fit is perfect.

This could be useful in the future when the brake material wears out but why is it used in the first place? and why no one mentions it?

 

[Andy m 23,513]

The backing plates are there as an anti-squeal and anti-wear measure. I'd want them back in, but try it.

 

Andy