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larryblag

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larryblag
Posted (edited)

To save me wading through lots and lots of posts on the subject, can anyone help shed light on the effective fork "upgrades" for the NC? My latest acquisition has the pre "dual bending valves" of my previous 2016 model and in short its a bit disappointing. I'm having to ride around Derby's numerous pot holes and sunken man holes as the effect of not doing so is 1/ painful and B/ knocking my hand off the throttle making for jerky progress. 

I know I've been used to "premium" suspension on the last two bikes but sheesh! :cry:

 

Thanks - my friends in anticipation. 

 

By the way. The R-send is OK for now but it'll be getting a Nitron next year. 

Edited by larryblag

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larryblag

In the meantime (while I walk the chubby brown dog) I'm perusing the various posts but I'm not prepared to spend £1, 000 on this. That's a third of the value of "Encee" 

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trisaki

I'm relatively happy with my pre 16  by just changing fork oil  solo use silkolene  7.5 grade  back end catered for with a yss shock £290  which for the money is brill 

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skorpion

larry

 

On my 2017 750x I found the rear shock acceptable, but the front forks terribly harsh just as you have, I ended up with the settings listed on Wilbers suspension web site.

7.5 fork oil, with 150ml air gap, this I find this ok but not perfect,  I may try 5 weight oil next.

 

Their settings for the 750s is 7.5 fork oil, with 140ml air gap.

 

 

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larryblag
Posted (edited)

Thanks for replies guys. :thumbsup:

Is it at all possible to suck out the existing oil with the forks in situ (with an appropriate rig-up) - or is it definitely a forks-out job?

 

Scratch that, it's a daft idea - I'll do it the proper way when I have time

 

And I should've said "doesn't have the dual bending valves of my previous NC"

Edited by larryblag
Being daft

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outrunner

You would never be able to get all the oil out doing it that way, and to set the air gap you need the fork vertical with the spring removed and the leg compressed which would be a bit tricky impossible with the forks in situ.

 

Andy.

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larryblag
5 minutes ago, outrunner said:

You would never be able to get all the oil out doing it that way, and to set the air gap you need the fork vertical with the spring removed and the leg compressed which would be a bit tricky impossible with the forks in situ.

 

Andy.

Thanks Andy. :thumbsup:

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skorpion
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, outrunner said:

You would never be able to get all the oil out doing it that way, and to set the air gap you need the fork vertical with the spring removed and the leg compressed which would be a bit tricky impossible with the forks in situ.

 

Andy.

 

Correct sucking the oil out leaves quite lot's of oil left in the forks,

BUT you can take out the wheel and undo the bolts inside the bottom of the fork legs, this lets you drain all except a couple of ml out of the legs.

As to needing the legs vertical to check the air gap again only difference will be a couple of ml.

I have used this method on numerous bikes over the years and never had a problem, quick and easy.

 

 

Edited by skorpion
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Dunnster
Posted (edited)

As you are riding with a pillion, I'm not sure just a fork oil change will be that impressive. It's a cheap and cheerful fix, still worth doing though and will make a slight difference. I recently changed my fork oil with Fuchs silkolene maintain 7.5, was a big improvement, not a magic carpet ride, but definitely noticeable. The old oil was well over due for a change. It's not a big job and very straight forward if you are comfortable with getting your hands dirty. 

But, like I said, I think you will need to alter the internals of your forks with riding two up. Unfortunately you've not long missed out on a set of improved forks and a nitron rear shock which a member has just sold, in the for sale section. 

Edited by Dunnster
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Haggetty
8 hours ago, larryblag said:

In the meantime (while I walk the chubby brown dog) I'm perusing the various posts but I'm not prepared to spend £1, 000 on this. That's a third of the value of "Encee" 

Hi, well, today I have had my forks well and truly fixed by Maxton!

 

I have only ridden it 25miles (from Maxtons to work) but I can describe the ride as completely transformed, cured, fixed.

 

Mine is a 2017 with only 2000 miles on the clock. I, like many, found the ride, particularly at the front, extremely harsh over any sharp ridges, road repairs, drain covers etc etc.

In fact over anything that wasn't smooth. Felt like like riding on rock hard tyres!

 

I considered first changing the oil/air gap/spring possibly using MCT in sussex. Sounded plausible. Found out about emulators and what they do but that sounded like

a total PITA - trial and most probably error.

 

Spoke to Richard  at Maxtons and decided to trust their expertise.

 

I had their GP20 Cartridge conversion and also their NR4 rear Shock. All customised to my riding weight and style. I left my NC with them for the

day and returned with it all completed, adjusted and set-up.

 

Proof of the pudding? Well, the improvement was immediately apparent on the bumpy lanes leaving Maxton.

Most noticeable is the complete lack of any jarring reaction from the front over anything. I actually aimed for the rougher parts of the road and instead of

having to grit my teeth the NC sailed through in a way you'd expect a bike with good suspension to.

 

As has been mentioned elsewhere, you know when your suspension is good cos you don't actually notice it anymore. I know now what that means!

 

the new rear shock does it's stuff but the improvements are more subtle - especially as the rear end issues were largely improved through use of an Airhawk!

 

So, I'd say 90% improvement at the front and 10% at the rear

 

I would recommend to just get the forks done - and properly. £730 all in. GP20 cartridges, Fork service, new seals, oil, labour and set-up.

Rear shock was £460 +VAT btw.

 

The Nc is a cheap bike because Honda cheaped out on the suspension. They did that because most owners don't care about it anyway and

for those lucky owners that live in countries with good roads (Like anywhere in Europe), cheap is good enough.

For the rest of us, at least it can be properly fixed!

 

 

 

 

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larryblag
Posted (edited)

Ultimately that might be the way to go. I have had a quote of £130 labour to fit hyperpro kit (I supply the kit). For this money they'll also supply and fit a new pair of fork seals and dust covers. Not bad I thought. Local Honda dealer won't touch it. 

 

This is Via Kawasaki at Clay Cross who sold me the bike btw. Excellent service so far from them. 

Edited by larryblag

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larryblag

Ooh I meant to say that two up is actually slightly better than solo. 

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outrunner
1 hour ago, larryblag said:

Ultimately that might be the way to go. I have had a quote of £130 labour to fit hyperpro kit (I supply the kit).

I fitted Hyperpro springs to my bike but found the oil 15 weight oil supplied made the front still feel a bit harsh so after running it for a few hundred miles I went for 10 weight, but I am thinking of changing to 7.5 at the next tyre change which will be coming up in a few hundred miles. Mind you, mine is a 2016 750x dct so yours might be OK as it is a slightly lighter bike.

 

Andy.

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Haggetty

Changing the springs will be of limited or no benefit in terms of making the front end feel softer. The problem is the damping. 

The NC is a very basic damper rod system as I’m sure you’re aware. 

It’s problem is high speed compression and rebound damping because the oil can’t flow through the hole fast enough when you hit sudden bumps. 

Low speed compression and rebound is fine. Undulations on a basically smooth road are fine. Fork dive under braking is ok too. 

If you thin the oil it will help the harsh feel a bit but at the expense of quicker fork dive under braking. 

With suspension it seems you do actually get what you pay for. 

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skorpion
1 hour ago, Haggetty said:

Changing the springs will be of limited or no benefit in terms of making the front end feel softer. The problem is the damping. 

The NC is a very basic damper rod system as I’m sure you’re aware. 

It’s problem is high speed compression and rebound damping because the oil can’t flow through the hole fast enough when you hit sudden bumps. 

Low speed compression and rebound is fine. Undulations on a basically smooth road are fine. Fork dive under braking is ok too. 

If you thin the oil it will help the harsh feel a bit but at the expense of quicker fork dive under braking. 

With suspension it seems you do actually get what you pay for. 

 

Yes the fork dive with 7.7 weight oil is excessive if you use the Honda recommended air gap at 180 mm,

I use Wilbers recommended air gap of 150 mm this stops excessive dive.

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larryblag
Posted (edited)

Thanks all. 

This is what I thought this morning after studying the manual. It shows a dual rate spring already fitted :console:. True the manual is for the 700 S/X but I assume it'll be very similar for the 2014 750. 

 

Fork Springs

 

Therefore, at least in the short term I might try a lighter weight oil first. Decide next year what to do. 

The first expensive "upgrade" will be the Shad seat. The rest, we might simply get used to... 

I'm not about to start looking at different bikes again - no no siree :no: that has happened too much already. 

Edited by larryblag
Forgot pic

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skorpion
7 minutes ago, larryblag said:

Thanks all. 

This is what I thought this morning after studying the manual. It shows a dual rate spring already fitted :console:. True the manual is for the 700 S/X but I assume it'll be very similar for the 2014 750. 

 

Fork Springs

 

Therefore, at least in the short term I might try a lighter weight oil first. Decide next year what to do. 

The first expensive "upgrade" will be the Shad seat. The rest, we might simply get used to... 

I'm not about to start looking at different bikes again - no no siree :no: that has happened too much already. 

 

All NC fork springs are dual rate.

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larryblag

Thanks Brian. I've been saved a lot of dismantling and quite possibly a great deal of money - at this stage anyway. 

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trisaki

I'm going to try linear springs when the wshop  work slows as I've got the man on my doorstep who makes the springs that you buy from maxton etc 

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larryblag

Thanks Mark, will you let us know how you get on - this might be the answer?

 

I've got my 7.5w oil on order for the middle of next week. Forks take just over 500ml each. A litre should do it though as there's likely to be a few ml left in each fork using the suggested "draining" method. Also, I'll measure what comes out of each one. I did notice the Honda manual mentioned 10w oil is standard. The manual also says to loosen each top clamp before removing fork caps - a good idea as they might be held a little by the clamping force.

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embee
Posted (edited)

It depends exactly which brand/version oil you use as to what the real viscosity is. Check the table of commercially available oils here

http://peterverdone.com/wiki/?title=Suspension_Fluid

The Integra springs are actually progressive rather than dual rate, this is my measurement of the 700 springs. They look very similar to the ones shown above and you'd guess dual rate, but probably more likely progressive. I replaced them with linear springs to suit the combined weight of me+Integra, http://www.ktechsuspension.com/products/road

 

5b6d85b90455c_NC70020Integra20OE20front20spring2001_zpsaotzzq6w.jpg.6757dac5eaa03936c6f4953c17c0f28d.jpg

Edited by embee
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larryblag
Posted (edited)

Clever stuff. Thanks Murray :thumbsup:

 

I've already ordered Silkolene Pro RSF 7.5W - which according to the table is rather more than 7.5W!

Oh well, I'll give it a try. Sadly the table doesn't show the full results for the Honda 10W (standard OEM filling).

Edited by larryblag

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