It won't start

[Dodogree 32]

Well, this morning this happened...

 

 

I notice that the screen is receiving power as normal.

The bike was left in the rain.

 

Where should I look first?

 

Ta

[trisaki 2,029]

Volt metre across battery  terminals  with ignition on -should be roughly 12.3  

[Dodogree 32]

So you reckon it's a battery voltage issue.

I'll go check. Ta.

[trisaki 2,029]

First place to check    also check terminals are tight 

Where in the country are you  

[SteveThackery 3,090]

Strange.  You can see the dashboard lights dim very briefly, and I get the impression the voltage drop is enough to make the system reinitialise.  Notice how the solenoid keeps attempting to engage.

 

So, I agree with the others: either the battery is knackered or the terminals are loose.

[Dodogree 32]

1 hour ago, trisaki said:

First place to check    also check terminals are tight 

Where in the country are you  

 

I'm in Bournemouth.

 

Battery checked at 11.4V, terminals are nice and tight.

Charging with the Oxford Oximiser as I am writing these lines, I think the problem's solved.

 

I can't figure out why the voltage dropped that low, it was only last week I rode the bike and was riding daily during the heatwave before that.

 

Thanks for everyone's help.

[Trumpet 216]

Batteries can fail at any time. Also if you are in the habit of allowing it to get very low before recharging, it will suphate up and wont hold a charge. When I was learing about Batteries, I managed to kiil a six month old battery letting it go and stay flat for a while....

Edited August 20, 2018 by Trumpet

[MikeBike 5,005]

Got fed up of having had to replace car batteries through getting heavily discharged despite regular use especially after a cold winter.

 

Now my bike and car each gets plugged into a Bosch C3 Battery Charger/maintainer with a lead hanging from the garage roof near the appropriate parking place every time. Takes a second or two to plug in to the battery tender lead.

 

For the bike the tender lead justs hang down on the LHS by the engine

For the car I adapted one of the two leads supplied to fit a plug into the 13 pin trailer socket - pin 9 is a direct connection to the battery but not all such socket installations have it connected.

 

Somehow the charger recognises whether it's a car or motorcycle as soon as it's plugged in and uses the appropriate programme.

 

 

 

[steelhorseuk 1,690]

 

I use one of these, have done since April 2012.

www.optimate.co.uk/products/optimate-3

Totally automatic battery optimiser , plugged in all the time while the bike is parked at home. 

 

[elbee 753]

37 minutes ago, MikeBike said:

For the bike the tender lead justs hang down on the LHS by the engine

 

When I attached my ancient Optimate lead I ran it out the LHS but later thought it might degrade, so it now comes out in the frunk and is held out of the way by the toolkit band. I leave the frunk lid resting on the lead when charging in the car port. 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

6 hours ago, Dodogree said:

Battery checked at 11.4V, terminals are nice and tight.

 

11.4V means the battery is flat or f**ked.

 

6 hours ago, Dodogree said:

Charging with the Oxford Oximiser as I am writing these lines, I think the problem's solved.

 

I don't.  You'll probably get enough charge in it to start, but you need to know why it went off in the first place.  My bet is that the battery is buggered and needs replacing.  (Unless you've got some incorrectly wired accessory like handlebar grips or a USB socket that you forgot to switch off.)

 

6 hours ago, Dodogree said:

I can't figure out why the voltage dropped that low, it was only last week I rode the bike and was riding daily during the heatwave before that.

 

It's normal.  Modern bikes (and cars) start almost instantly, so you get little or no early warning that the battery is on the way out.

[DaveM59 1,605]

Check the regulator is charging when you get it going as if it isn't you need a new one and the battery may be OK after a good run. Always rule out reasons why it's gone dud then if all else is OK it has to be the battery.

Those fag lighter to USB adaptors will kill a battery if left plugged in a permanently live socket even with nothing USB connected to it. They kill a car battery in a week or so so a day or two in a bike.

[kayz1 2,928]

What Dave said about USB stuff, also do not rule out that Oxford heated grip control unit. I have had two that did not switch off until the battery was down to ( Guess what voltage )

Yes 11.4volts....Unless you have it via a relay or switched feed..

Lyn.

[gonzo 2,211]

As i have said before, HONDA recommend a new battery every 3 years , i think as they are getting smaller they don't last as long,.An optimate is a good way to go to avoid a" FLATY "  !

[SteveThackery 3,090]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

An optimate is a good way to go to avoid a" FLATY "  !

 

Indeed, but it's worth remembering that they still won't make a battery last forever.

[ste7ios 469]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

As i have said before, HONDA recommend a new battery every 3 years , i think as they are getting smaller they don't last as long,.An optimate is a good way to go to avoid a" FLATY "  !

This is idiotic... Time is only one factor that wears a battery.  Usage and environmental temperature are affecting them mostly.

 

The same battery may last just a year or 5+ years...

 

Monitoring the battery (and the charging system) is the only reliable way to tell when to change the battery and save some money.

 

A permanently installed voltmeter like Koso mini3 is the easiest way to do it.

 

A good battery maintainer like Optimate can really help to avoid discharging problems (self discharge, short distance riding, parasitic drain, etc) that causes sulfation and get the maximum battery life.

 

You’re right about modern batteries. They’re more powerful at the cost of thinner lead plates, sacrificing longevity...

[Graham NZ 1,186]

Modern bikes with FI won't tolerate low battery Voltage.

[Trumpet 216]

Also, and a common feature for Honda, the Battery does not charge at tickover. So it you do many short start/stop Journeys the Battery will be left only partially charged.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Trumpet

[Dodogree 32]

I did indeed have a cigarette lighter to USB adaptor plugged in.

Not sure how it could have been that, when I've connected it in such a way that it receives power only when the ignition is on?

I've removed the adaptor just in case, but I'm curious.

 

[embee 7,288]

As others say, it could just be the battery giving up, they do that. Important to check the charging voltage when it's up and running again. For useful info try https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1091/5694/files/fault-finding-diagram.pdf?235929069374954073

(can be found at https://www.electrosport.com/pages/technical-resources  )

[gonzo 2,211]

12 hours ago, Trumpet said:

Also, and a common feature for Honda, the Battery does not charge at tickover. So it you do many short start/stop Journeys the Battery will be left only partially charged.

I have often wondered what RPM does an engine have to run at to charge  ! any ideas chaps.

[Andy m 23,513]

Manuals only tend to give the peak, so the CB is 500W, 15.5V at 5000 rpm. You normally see a meter on the battery terminals flicker above 13.5 after inching the throttle open and counting to three, so maybe 2000 rpm. Don't forget the fuel pump uses potentially 15A so it'll discharge at idle, break even, then start to charge. Rule of thumb would be 5 miles plus not to do more using than charging.

 

To check for a drain or short, set the meter to a high range and connect in series with the battery negative (Earth terminal -meter black, wire removed from earth terminal to meter red) with the ignition off. Drop the scale until you get a reading. I should be under 0.3 mA. If its higher start unplugging to ID where the drain or short is. If you turn the ignition on be very sure the meter is good for 30A because every electron is going through it. If you hit the stsrter button the meter usually goes pop.

 

Andy

Edited August 22, 2018 by Andy m

[Dodogree 32]

26 minutes ago, embee said:

As others say, it could just be the battery giving up, they do that. Important to check the charging voltage when it's up and running again. For useful info try https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1091/5694/files/fault-finding-diagram.pdf?235929069374954073

(can be found at https://www.electrosport.com/pages/technical-resources  )

 

Thanks for that, it's very useful.

The battery is the factory installed one as the bike was only bought in December 2017.

But then again, voltage drop could kill it regardless.

[ste7ios 469]

22 hours ago, Trumpet said:

Also, and a common feature for Honda, the Battery does not charge at tickover. So it you do many short start/stop Journeys the Battery will be left only partially charged.

This is a common feature for all two wheelers... They all have a PMA (permanent magnet alternator) with a performance dependent on RPM (Max. Perf. @ 5,000 RPM) and a battery chemistry that have a complex and slow charging...

 

With commuting (city riding, short distances, a lot of idling) it’s difficult to fully charge a lead acid battery and stop sulfation.

 

I always had problems with my batteries because of that... I replaced it with a LiFePO4 battery and problem solved... LFP can be fully charged in just 10-15’ and doesn’t suffer by sulfation.

 

It has other problems but it’s ok so far for me...

 

IMHO, NC has one more problem. The battery is located on the hottest location of a motorcycle. Heat is killing batteries really fast...

[Trumpet 216]

Mine only starts charging with the revs at 1400-1500rpm and upwards. My VFR and Blackbird were the same. Seems to be a Honda thing. My Triumph charges at tickover.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Trumpet