Cost of Chain and Sprocket Change

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

I seem to remember I loosened the rear sprocket while the wheel was still in situ.

[Andy m 23,520]

That helps. The jungle method of getting a mate to swing on the bar while you sit on the bike with both brakes held as applicable as it ever was. Just make sure the swine is turning it the right way and will stop pulling as you start to topple over. The magic nut gun is easier.

 

The rule on rubber is pretty easy. You'll never know what the rubber material really is with something like an O-ring, the mix chemists are kept locked in dark rooms as they can kill by boring you to death at 500 yards while the recipe owners don't want you to know something you paid a tenner for is mostly sweepings from the oven. Natural rubbers and EPDM turn to dust like a Vampire in Magaluf when they meet anything oily or with a competing long chain structure. Nitrile hates Keytones and phosphates and a lot of organic fats. The muppetry designing your machine will have their heads so far up their specialist subject they forget about the real world. Your machine for bottling engine oil will have seals designed to withstand NASA grade brake fluid, but your cleaner will decide to use vinegar with a hint of lemon oil* The best idea then is simplified to - nothing that'll burn (a chemical reaction) and nothing that smells strongly (organic). When you consider the metal spring in say a lipseal, salt can be a problem too.

 

*Lime oil is what you a saboteur would use, best of everything, acid, oil and organic with bits of gum and wood suspended in it for that extra crunchy reaction to expose a fresh surface to attack.

 

Andy 

[makman 975]

Paid £86 for a DID Heavy Duty X Ring Chain with Sprockets (AFAM).  Included the chain rivet tool as well.  Excellent value for money. Took me around an hour to change over and bike was smooth as silk again.  Bought off that place, now £90 for kit.

[Sinclair48K 16]

Hopefully this lot will do the job, think my chain has a little life in it left, but its done 16,000 miles I think and haven't seen any paperwork to say its ever been changed, so quite long for an original chain? Not having owned a bike with a chain for such a long time Im not 100% on what feels like chain wear and what is just the agricultural  nature of the NC engine ;-) The wear mark on the bike on nowhere near the red mark so plenty of stretch in it, but of course may be stiff in places maybe.

[Tex 36,817]

Paraffin is my choice of chain cleaner. But WD40 now make a spray cleaner specifically for O ring chains. Available from Halfords (among others). I find it works really well.

[Graham NZ 1,186]

Kerosene is what I've always used.  Cheap, O-ring kind and washes away pretty well with water.

[Graham NZ 1,186]

10 hours ago, Sinclair48K said:

The wear mark on the bike on nowhere near the red mark so plenty of stretch in it, but of course may be stiff in places.

 

Chains don't really stretch - the total of the wear of the pins and their bushes is what makes a stretched chain longer.  I suppose loss of lubricant around the pins must have some effect too.

 

When we lube our chains what we are doing is lubing the O-rings so that they remain supple and able to retain the grease held around the pins within their bushes.  Lubing also limits rusting of the side plates of course.

[Sinclair48K 16]

12 hours ago, Graham NZ said:

 

Chains don't really stretch - the total of the wear of the pins and their bushes is what makes a stretched chain longer.  I suppose loss of lubricant around the pins must have some effect too.

 

When we lube our chains what we are doing is lubing the O-rings so that they remain supple and able to retain the grease held around the pins within their bushes.  Lubing also limits rusting of the side plates of course.

Well I bought the bike at 14000 miles and had a PDOiler put on it, but before that I cant vouch for the chain maintenance routine, nor can see any records of the chain being changed, so I assume this is the factory fitted chain.

 

 

[embee 7,288]

Paraffin.

Also the lube is for the rollers on the pins.

Edited September 9, 2018 by embee

[dazznutts 167]

if you havent had a new chain fitted yet there is a very good mechanic ex pit who is based in west-cliff opposite Julian Sopers his name is Paul Devlin Motorcycle Workshop

he is behind the cafe - parade of shops opposite Julian Sopers

[Graham NZ 1,186]

On 9/10/2018 at 04:04, embee said:

Paraffin.

Also the lube is for the rollers on the pins.

 

How can applied lube get passed the O-rings and into the pin bushings?  The O-rings are there to retain the factory applied grease and keep other things out.

[embee 7,288]

The rollers which contact the sprockets aren't sealed. Try twiddling them. My use of the word pins was misleading, apologies. They run on the outside of the bushings.

[Trev 18,625]

Just done a C&S change on my lads's MT03 - £90 for a (I hope!) decent set and more hours than I wanted trying to get the spocket nut off. Why is it you only find your mate has returned a rarely used tool (heat gun in this instance) when you need it? Lots of release agent, dozens of blows with the impact driver and finally a much longer T  bar than I felt comfortable with, and Mrs Smith stood on the rear brake, finally got it off, two hours in total including the half hour and back to my lockup in a fruitless search for said hear gun 

Rear wheel came out and sprocket off easy, I had bought a set of new bearings for the rear wheel as bike is ten years old and used in all weathers but all seemed to run smoothly so I left them well alone so I repacked seals with grease and put the new bearings away for another day.

 

The set came with both rivet and split chain links but as the MT originally came with a joined chain, and I don't have a chain rivet tool, I've used the split link. I must invest in a tool as need to replace C&S on my GSXR and I would preer to use a rivet link on other bikes if I have the choice.

[matt28 401]

Paid £74 for JT sprockets and DID XV2 520 chain in May, took me about our to complete whole task.

Bought DID riveter as well.

Very happy with results.

[Sinclair48K 16]

I was thinking and endless chain for me, what do most do?

[Andy m 23,520]

I would go for split & rivet. You have a tool and use it. No surprises. 

 

If you take the swing arm off you can grease linkages etc. as you come out, but it's more work. If I was prepping a bike for a long trip or planning to keep one for ten years and working from an unknown state I'd go endless and do the other stuff. 

 

Split links are for get you home bodge repairs, sub-25 HP classics and Americans. 

 

Andy

[Graham NZ 1,186]

8 hours ago, Andy m said:

Split links are for get you home bodge repairs, sub-25 HP classics and Americans. 

 

Don't agree about split joining links.  Done properly they would be fine on an NC.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

10 hours ago, Andy m said:

 

Split links are for get you home bodge repairs, sub-25 HP classics and Americans. 

 

 

I don't understand why.  Are they really more likely to come apart than any other link?  I only recall one chain coming apart, and that wasn't at the split link, it was at a link with loose rivets.

[Andy m 23,520]

Read ADVrider, plenty of failures are noted. The clip has a greater tolerance, otherwise you'd never get the clip on, so the O-ring compression is less controlled, and if you lose the grease it'll wear like a non-oring. Put enough force on it say a stone between chain and sprocket and you can ping the clip off. The chain manufacturers motives for not recommending clip links may not be entirely technical but you can see their point.

 

My failure was at the clip link but not the clip itself and I found manufacturing defects on the riveting of other links

 

https://sites.google.com/site/hrpvindaloomotorcycles/home/news-and-announcements/chain-failure

 

I've had to use spare clips off road when the daily inspection has found the side plate held on only by grease and good luck. Probably stones than pinged the clip off, but worrying when you've used your only spare and are 40 miles from a fully paved road. 

 

If you want to chance it to save a bit of time go ahead. They don't fail everyday. If it's a skill issue you have two choices, stay at the skill level that limits you to clip links or learn to use the rivet tool. 

 

Andy

Edited September 15, 2018 by Andy m

[Iron horse 121]

On 05/09/2018 at 21:44, ETEC said:

 

 

Try Kerosene/ Paraffin, it is not supposed to do any harm to o-rings. Plenty of Vids on You Tube with guys using it to clean chains 

Been using this too. £8 for 5 ltrs and lasts me about 18 months. Gets the chain sparklingly clean with a kitchen sponge and an old paint brush. Lovely.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

2 hours ago, Andy m said:

 

If you want to chance it to save a bit of time go ahead. They don't fail everyday. If it's a skill issue you have two choices, stay at the skill level that limits you to clip links or learn to use the rivet tool. 

 

 

I think it's more that the split link allows repeated splitting of the chain with no need for replacement links.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

2 hours ago, Andy m said:

Read ADVrider, plenty of failures are noted. The clip has a greater tolerance, otherwise you'd never get the clip on, so the O-ring compression is less controlled.....

 

Can you explain that a bit more?  I visualise that the side plate has to be free enough to push into place on both types, but then the clip will hold the plate with a known tightness whereas the rivet tool leaves the user in charge of how tight they make the rivet.  Is that wrong?

[baben 11,703]

Well Tigger had a sprocket and chain change last Thursday and the front brakes were stripped and serviced properly (Triumph service schedule says inspect which is presumably what the dealer's mechanic had done but having seen the state they were in they left them that way). Anyway, Paul at More Moto has done a proper job and it came to £199. Money I do not mind spending as I know the job has been done properly.  I should add that the arthritis in my hands and my dyspraxia mean it would not be sensible for me to try and do it myself.....

[Trev 18,625]

Oo'er Andy, you're trying to give me split link stress to go with the tubed tyre stress, non-ABS and hard to find horn buttons stress I could 'catch' from other forum posts 

 

Like a few others I've used split links on dozens of bikes over hundreds of thousands of miles and never had a failure. Maybe I've been lucky (for those that believe in such fairydust, I don't) but it's just not something that registers other than a teeny eeny weeny blip on my 'things to worry about when riding a bike' radar 

 

Obviously as with an punctures in tubed tyres or an issue where ABSwould have helped, if I now do have a split link fail I will not be telling anyone on here 

[Andy m 23,520]

1 hour ago, SteveThackery said:

 

I think it's more that the split link allows repeated splitting of the chain with no need for replacement links.

Why would you want to do that? Still putting them on the stove with a tin of whale blubber like it's 1954? 😁

 

The side plate goes onto a step in the pin, this setting the compression of the O-ring. A rivet can only form when the plate is on the step (so long as you drive it on with the compression plate) . There is no tolerance except the position of the step, the rivet head flowing to take up any other (thickness of the plate etc) . A clip sits on the groove outer face. There is a tolerance on both the position of groove in relation to the step and the clearance between clip, plate and groove. The O-ring is acting as a spring to push the plate off the step until the clip hits the outer edge of the groove. The compression of the O-ring varies and the whole system is less solid. The slide hammer action, plate bouncing on O-ring, may explain why my crappy Indian chains rivet failed at the clip link even though the clip stayed on. 

 

On a non-O-ring chain, where the only way to lube it could be the lard on the stove to make something stick, I can see the point. 

 

Andy

Edited September 15, 2018 by Andy m