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Valve clearance

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Graham NZ
5 hours ago, klrman said:

It was the Cyclone that bust the belt. He says that replacement does require some rear end disassembly, but as he doesn't do his own maintenence he wasn't specific.  He has all his work done by some Buell guru up in Manchester. Anyway, until it's fixed we can't get him to travel far (30 miles round trip max ) on his Firebolt.  Looking at it, I wouldn't want to travel far with that wheelbase, either.

 

What rubbish you are talking.  My Buell out-performs my NC750SD in every way except fuel consumption and even there the Honda is better by not much.

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klrman
2 hours ago, Graham NZ said:

 

What rubbish you are talking.  My Buell out-performs my NC750SD in every way except fuel consumption and even there the Honda is better by not much.

Sorry Graham, you misunderstand me. I agree with you, great performance and poor mpg. But I was referring to comfort

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Graham NZ

Poor fuel consumption?  My XB12Ss returns 22 or 23 km/l regularly.  I've never seen less than 20 and have seen 25 occasionally.  If there are Buells out there using more than that they should get tuned properly and return to the original muffler.  Getting the TPS set correctly on any engine is very important and it seems especially so on a Buell.  I have the equipment to do that myself.  Maybe fuel consumption would be worse if I revved the bike out but I prefer to short-shift and ride the lovely torque.

 

The NC engine has somewhat similar characteristics - low revs and good torque, and good fuel economy so I feel at home on both bikes.

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klrman
11 minutes ago, Graham NZ said:

Poor fuel consumption?  My XB12Ss returns 22 or 23 km/l regularly.  I've never seen less than 20 and have seen 25 occasionally.  If there are Buells out there using more than that they should get tuned properly and return to the original muffler.  Getting the TPS set correctly on any engine is very important and it seems especially so on a Buell.  I have the equipment to do that myself.  Maybe fuel consumption would be worse if I revved the bike out but I prefer to short-shift and ride the lovely torque.

 

The NC engine has somewhat similar characteristics - low revs and good torque, and good fuel economy so I feel at home on both bikes.

Anyway, when we're playing together, he can't keep up with me on either Firebolt or Cyclone. He too, always short shifts, but I'm not sure I always believe him when he insists he's not trying. And he didn't complain once when we went around France,  Belgium and Germany with my NC and his Cyclone, even when it went down to one cylinder on the one rainy morning. But then, it always does that

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shiggsy
On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 19:02, temp said:

Frequent oil and filter changes are the best to do for longeviety.

Well done!

There was a study done many years ago on taxi cabs in America where they had their oil changed at differing intervals to study the wear effects.  One of the vehicles had its oil changed more frequently than was required and this one produced an odd reading,  the engine experienced increased wear of one particular metal type.  When they investigated this they found that when the new oil was mixed with the remains of the old there is an acidic reaction which attacked one type of metal in particular.  Because of the increased oil changes the wear on this particular metal was greater.  The upshot was, don't exceed the change intervals by silly amounts, and certainly don't change more frequently than required, it wastes money, oil and doesn't do the engine any good. 

 

I have always changed my oil and filter at 10k intervals and had several bikes that have gone around the clock with no issues (also running on supermarket fuel).

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Graham NZ
1 hour ago, klrman said:

Anyway, when we're playing together, he can't keep up with me on either Firebolt or Cyclone. He too, always short shifts, but I'm not sure I always believe him when he insists he's not trying. And he didn't complain once when we went around France,  Belgium and Germany with my NC and his Cyclone, even when it went down to one cylinder on the one rainy morning. But then, it always does that

To say a Buell of either capacity can't keep up with an NC750 is a bad joke.  My Buell has never had a problem in the rain nor gone onto one cylinder.  91,000km.  By the sound of things your mate needs to get his bike serviced somewhere else.  The engine is a just a suped up HD Sporster so that shouldn't be too difficult.

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Tex
11 minutes ago, Graham NZ said:

To say a Buell of either capacity can't keep up with an NC750 is a bad joke.  My Buell has never had a problem in the rain nor gone onto one cylinder.  91,000km.  By the sound of things your mate needs to get his bike serviced somewhere else.  The engine is a just a suped up HD Sporster so that shouldn't be too difficult.

 

Don’t get so huffy. Maybe the Buell could keep up but the rider couldn’t? Who knows? Or cares, really? Yes we all get it that you believe the Buell to be God’s own motorcycle.

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Steveb2418
4 minutes ago, Tex said:

 

Don’t get so huffy. Maybe the Buell could keep up but the rider couldn’t? Who knows? Or cares, really? Yes we all get it that you believe the Buell to be God’s own motorcycle.

But JC rides an NC :-) Possibly 

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temp

Jeremy Clarkson?

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klrman
2 minutes ago, temp said:

Jeremy Clarkson?

Jesus Christ !! Anyone but him !

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temp
41 minutes ago, shiggsy said:

There was a study done many years ago on taxi cabs in America where they had their oil changed at differing intervals to study the wear effects.  One of the vehicles had its oil changed more frequently than was required and this one produced an odd reading,  the engine experienced increased wear of one particular metal type.  When they investigated this they found that when the new oil was mixed with the remains of the old there is an acidic reaction which attacked one type of metal in particular.  Because of the increased oil changes the wear on this particular metal was greater.  The upshot was, don't exceed the change intervals by silly amounts, and certainly don't change more frequently than required, it wastes money, oil and doesn't do the engine any good. 

 

I have always changed my oil and filter at 10k intervals and had several bikes that have gone around the clock with no issues (also running on supermarket fuel).

That's interesting. Service schedules always have a milage and time recommendation. Unsure now if to take any notice of the time recommendation.

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embee
2 hours ago, shiggsy said:

There was a study done many years ago on taxi cabs in America where they had their oil changed at differing intervals to study the wear effects.  One of the vehicles had its oil changed more frequently than was required and this one produced an odd reading,  the engine experienced increased wear of one particular metal type. ……………...

I think I'd like to see the data and evidence of that before jumping to any conclusion. Just because it's on t'interweb doesn't mean it's true.

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machinman
7 hours ago, embee said:

I think I'd like to see the data and evidence of that before jumping to any conclusion. Just because it's on t'interweb doesn't mean it's true.

I dont buy that either, i can understand the waste of money and enviromental issues with premature changes, but certainly cant see their being increased wear.

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Tex
9 hours ago, klrman said:

Jesus Christ !! Anyone but him !

 

Not sure what JC rides, but Hitler loved his VFR..

 

 

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shiggsy
2 hours ago, machinman said:

I dont buy that either, i can understand the waste of money and enviromental issues with premature changes, but certainly cant see their being increased wear.

The explanation was given in sentence number 3.

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embee
11 hours ago, shiggsy said:

......they found that when the new oil was mixed with the remains of the old there is an acidic reaction which attacked one type of metal in particular.  

That's the bit I find slightly difficult to understand. Oils have additives which can "buffer" acidic compounds which usually come from the products of combustion, the measure of this ability is referred to as TBN (total base number)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_base_number   and all manufacturers will usually publish this in the data sheets. TBN is one of the key measurements used in oil analysis to determine suitability for extended service, once it falls below a certain level it can no longer cope with the acidic products of combustion.

I'm just not sure what sort of reaction could take place between new and old oil which would then attack any specific metal. Residual old oil would probably reduce the effective TBN of the new oil simply because of the usual contamination found in old oil. I'd guess they were looking at copper, that's the usual target for such things (from brasses and bronzes used in some plain bearing underlays), but I'd be interested to see the data and reasoning for any such conclusion. I'm not dismissing your post shiggsy, just questioning the original article.

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SteveThackery
21 minutes ago, shiggsy said:

The explanation was given in sentence number 3.

 

Not really an explanation as such, more of a claim.  I'd be interested to find out more about the chemical reaction that produced the acid.

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klrman

Blimey, it's a long time since I saw that, but it's so funny. I think someone sent it to me 10 years ago just as I was chopping my VFR. I think that was the first time I went through the GS loop, before concluding that despite being a very functional, comfortable and desirable bike, they are incredibly ugly and expensive. 

I've been through that same loop several times since with the same conclusion each time. One day, hopefully, when I care less about money, I'll get one.

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klrman
Just now, klrman said:

Blimey, it's a long time since I saw that, but it's so funny. I think someone sent it to me 10 years ago just as I was chopping my VFR. I think that was the first time I went through the GS loop, before concluding that despite being a very functional, comfortable and desirable bike, they are incredibly ugly and expensive. 

I've been through that same loop several times since with the same conclusion each time. One day, hopefully, when I care less about money, I'll get one.

I was referring to the video posted by Tex

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shiggsy

Unfortunately I can't find the articles now, I read them about 5 years ago, there seems to be several NYC Taxi cab tests about but they read like Amsoil adverts.  I remember reading two articles at the time, the one with the acidic reaction was a test run by Ford, but I can't find that either, so I can't back up what I said.  Annoying.   But looking around, all of these tests conclude there is no benefit to short oil change intervals.

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embee
4 minutes ago, shiggsy said:

…..all of these tests conclude there is no benefit to short oil change intervals.

That's a pretty reasonable summary, as long as the oil has the properties necessary for effective lubrication and no undesirable contaminant levels it will give good service. Manufacturers will always err on the side of caution, not through malicious or devious intent as often suggested, simply to cover themselves. If they said wait till it breaks then back off a thousand miles we wouldn't be too impressed. There are too many variables to give hard and fast intervals which reflect the oil's capabilities.

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DelBoy
On 10/7/2018 at 23:07, klrman said:

After reading through all the scepticism surrounding this subject, how sure are you they were actually checked?

Pretty sure as I have used this dealer before and they have always been very good .

I also had a chat with the Senior mechanic (Who did the work) before and after the service.

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Andy m

Late to this one, so will do all three running threads in one go 😁

 

God possibly rides a Triumph. I believe it mentions "looking upon it" in the book of Genesis, but will let the Rev correct me if I'm wrong.  Jeremy Clarkson should be riding a hurdle towards Tyburn for a bit of personality readjustment involving rotten fruit, but you aren't allowed to. 

 

I thought HD did a get-you-home belt kit? Basically a clip and a length of spare kevlar. No need to be stranded even if you did break one. People claim belts hate stones, yet there are plenty of photos on dirt roads in the US. I'd give one a go if the rest of the bike was right. 

 

Acidic reaction aside, over frequent oil changes must cause more wear. The oil pressure being low and the iron in ally drain plug being disturbed are not good. If 16000 mile oil is good enough compared to 2000 mile oil and you change it, that's 8 times the wear plus all the extra dead fish and humanity a step closer to pedestrianism when the oil has to be made by pressure cooking dolphins and costs more than your house. 

 

Andy

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shiggsy
17 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Acidic reaction aside, over frequent oil changes must cause more wear. The oil pressure being low and the iron in ally drain plug being disturbed are not good. If 16000 mile oil is good enough compared to 2000 mile oil and you change it, that's 8 times the wear plus all the extra dead fish and humanity a step closer to pedestrianism when the oil has to be made by pressure cooking dolphins and costs more than your house. 

 

Knew I was right!

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Graham NZ

Andrew, I'd never heard of the HD get-you-home belt-repair kit.  I knew about the reputation belts had for being vulnerable to stone damage, so soon after getting the new bike I added a spring-loaded belt-tensioner and went to a lot of trouble to make and fit extra discrete guarding to stop stones reaching the toothed side of the belt.  It has worked so far because I often ride on un-sealed roads and over road works sections without giving the belt a thought.  Here, motorists are used by roading contractors to help compact road metal by driving over it!  Once it was so loose and deep that my bike (ST1100) got bogged down and remained standing up when I got off to 'speak' to the workers.

 

I always change oils and filters only at the recommended intervals.

Edited by Graham NZ

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