2014 Honda NC700X - DCT Failure at 6,300 miles...

[Guest Tumo]

I'll try.  Spreading my wings and posting on 3 different NC700 related forums, may be hard to get all info in sync

 

May be that will get some attention...

https://twitter.com/no_dct/with_replies

Edited September 20, 2018 by Tumo

[Tex 36,817]

2 minutes ago, Tumo said:

I'll try.  Spreading my wings and posting on 3 different NC700 related forums, may be hard to get all info in sync

 

May be that will get some attention...

https://twitter.com/no_dct/with_replies

 

 

 

It might get you some attention (If attention seeking is what you’re ‘into’) but it’s unlikely to get your machine repaired. If you just want to make a show of yourself try handcuffing yourself, stark naked, to the fence around Honda N.A. headquarters..

 

When your problem is finally revealed as (almost certainly) an electrical connection I hope you will go on Twitter and point it out. 

[MikeBike 5,005]

1 hour ago, Tumo said:

I'll try.  Spreading my wings and posting on 3 different NC700 related forums, may be hard to get all info in sync

 

May be that will get some attention...

https://twitter.com/no_dct/with_replies

 

You will update us here as well, won't you?

Forgive me, but if you're in need and ask in three different places for help, and getting extensive free help here to save you paying to get it repaired all taking others time and effort primarily for you, but also for any others in future that may have similar issues, surely you understand that finding out what the cause and the resulting fix is not only for you but to pay back those that provided the assistance and to help others in future. If you raised the topic in three places surely you can post (paste?) your update in each.

Otherwise the story is missing the last chapter and conclusion. Imagine this thread being one that someone else had started and you said, "that's it, just like my problem..". and then finding they didn't post the conclusion....

Sadly it happens a lot in online forums. (some) people are motivated to get their answer because of their need, rely on the assistance of others but then don't give back by assist others with the conclusion.

[Guest Tumo]

No worries, I am running a popular sailing forum and know the drill.  You guys will get an update and a full summary once this come to a close.

 

Cheers,

[Guest Tumo]

On 9/20/2018 at 08:36, Tex said:

 

It might get you some attention (If attention seeking is what you’re ‘into’) but it’s unlikely to get your machine repaired. If you just want to make a show of yourself try handcuffing yourself, stark naked, to the fence around Honda N.A. headquarters..

 

When your problem is finally revealed as (almost certainly) an electrical connection I hope you will go on Twitter and point it out. 

You'd be surprised how quick companies respond to customer complains on social media these days, they already did...

[Andy m 23,492]

Respond as in do something, or as in answer? I got the latter from Royal Enfield, which is half the battle but not all of it. 

 

I found following a few "medium" profile bikey sort of people helps. HMTQ and the PoTUS won't over tweet you (or whatever its called) or comment it's a bad show. Honda don't care my mate Jade thinks they are ****heads. Your MP or Jeremy Vine (Tumo will have to Google him), seems to get their attention. 

 

Good Luck with your fight

 

Andy

[Graham NZ 1,186]

embee, you're a gem.  Your posts are invariably interesting and informative.  Thanks.

[old commuter 87]

Gee wiz embee knows his stuff and here’s me debating if I dare try to service my NC700x manual and wondering if I dare take the wheel off. Learner v expert I think. Hats off to embee.

[embee 7,288]

I'm just familiar with principles and methods, ways things are done, engineering. Don't start asking me detail stuff about specific bikes or cars and expect me to know about them.

[old commuter 87]

Still knowledgeable compared to me, si still take my hat off.

[Guest Tumo]

Update (Day 82): Dealer called and said bike is fixed.  They are confident the shifting motor was the source of the problem.  They replaced it, rode the bike 30 miles in various conditions and will keep it one more day to test.  Fingers crossed...

 

So to sum up:

1. Battery: replaced
2. Shifter pin: check
3. ECU (PCM) unit: replaced
4. Oil and filters: changed
5. Clutch pack: replaced
6: Shifting motor: replaced

 

 

 

[Guest Wilco]

Fingers crossed

[Andy m 23,492]

Fingers crossed its sorted. 

 

The ECU replacement is IMHO proof the dealer is incompetent. I meet this every day at work. The ECU is treated as a box full of demons and must therefore have been made angry by evil spirits. When replacement fails the new demons must be appeased by sacrificing many innocent parts. 

 

ECU's fail in two ways. You jump start or weld, smoke comes out of it and it's dead. Or, some internal connection goes, it looses contact with a bit its trying to read or drive and the fault code tell you exactly what it is. The failure rate on Landrover and trailer ECU's that have not met a welding set is literally one in a million, Honda will have the same. The warranty reject rate from dealers using joss sticks and fowl entrails for diagnosis is close to 100%.

 

If you paid for the ECU tell them you disagree with the diagnosis and ask them to send it to Honda as a warranty claim. If Honda reject it, it was mis-diagnosed and they can give you your money back. 

 

Andy

[Tex 36,817]

Andy is 100% correct. An incompetent dealership that uses what we call ‘shotgun diagnostics’ - fire enough new parts at a problem and eventually you’ll hit the target. 

 

Enjoy your bike and find a better mechanic.

[pjm 6,041]

The fact they have changed the ECU and the shift motor could indicate it was one or the other. If the shift motor had gone or possibly shorted out could that have sent a power surge back to the ECU and damaged it? Would love to know if the dealer took the trouble to change just the shift motor first. Might have saved a lot of time and money. Did you tell them about not getting the correct readings at the shift motor or did you just leave them to get on with it. I think embee identified a faulty shift motor as the potential suspect a while ago.

[Tex 36,817]

Peter, my understanding is that the ‘repairs’ are listed in the order they were done and the ECU was, as is frequently the case, blamed because that’s what folks do when they can’t find their arse using both hands and a flashlight.. 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

6 hours ago, Tumo said:

 

So to sum up:

1. Battery: replaced
2. Shifter pin: check
3. ECU (PCM) unit: replaced
4. Oil and filters: changed
5. Clutch pack: replaced
6: Shifting motor: replaced

 

 

Wow!  That really is the shotgun approach!  They've changed five things (counting oil and filters as one) to fix it.  So that's one faulty item and four perfectly good items in their scrap bin.

 

This is massive incompetence.  Moreover it proves beyond doubt that they didn't do any diagnostics whatsoever, they just chucked new bits at it until it worked.

 

You need to find a better dealer.  Which raises the question: how can you tell, these days, if the mechanics are competent?

[lazlo woodbine 1,211]

4 hours ago, Andy m said:

 

 

 The ECU is treated as a box full of demons and must therefore have been made angry by evil spirits. When replacement fails the new demons must be appeased by sacrificing many innocent parts. 

 

The warranty reject rate from dealers using joss sticks and fowl entrails for diagnosis is close to 100%.

 

 

Andy

Andy. Brilliant as always.

[Guest Tumo]

3 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Wow!  That really is the shotgun approach!  They've changed five things (counting oil and filters as one) to fix it.  So that's one faulty item and four perfectly good items in their scrap bin.

 

This is massive incompetence.  Moreover it proves beyond doubt that they didn't do any diagnostics whatsoever, they just chucked new bits at it until it worked.

 

You need to find a better dealer.  Which raises the question: how can you tell, these days, if the mechanics are competent?

They have have consulted with Honda's tech services in the past month so, it's fair to say that both, dealer and Honda are a bit at lost with the issue.

[Guest Tumo]

4 hours ago, Tex said:

Peter, my understanding is that the ‘repairs’ are listed in the order they were done and the ECU was, as is frequently the case, blamed because that’s what folks do when they can’t find their arse using both hands and a flashlight.. 

Indeed, I listed the repairs in order.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

4 hours ago, Tumo said:

They have have consulted with Honda's tech services in the past month so, it's fair to say that both, dealer and Honda are a bit at lost with the issue.

 

Unfortunately that says quite a lot about Honda US technical services.  

 

On this topic, I wonder if it is actually cheaper to not diagnose (due to the high cost of labour), but to throw parts at it until it works again.  I guess it's possible, and that this is a deliberate policy, but I find it hard to believe when you check out the parts costs.

 

There is another possibility: Honda US don't provide an "in the field" diagnostics service.  Having been a support tech myself, I can say that diagnosing a fault by telephone or email is extremely tedious, time consuming and not particularly reliable.  Maybe that's why there is no diagnosis effort from Honda US.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by SteveThackery
Fixed the country

[MikeBike 5,005]

 

1 minute ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Unfortunately that says quite a lot about Honda UK technical services.  

No, he's in the US...

On 18/09/2018 at 23:48, Tumo said:

Coleman Sports in Falls Church, VA.  I am in the US.

 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

3 minutes ago, MikeBike said:

 

No, he's in the US...

 

 

Oops, sorry.  But my argument remains.  Post fixed.

Edited October 2, 2018 by SteveThackery

[MikeBike 5,005]

8 minutes ago, SteveThackery said:

On this topic, I wonder if it is actually cheaper to not diagnose (due to the high cost of labour), but to throw parts at it until it works again.  I guess it's possible, and that this is a deliberate policy, but I find it hard to believe when you check out the parts costs

 

Not sure whether it's in warranty or Tumo has been coughing up for all the attempts to fix, in which case dealer is making $$ at Tumo's expense by his mis-diagnosis.

 

 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

1 minute ago, MikeBike said:

Not sure whether it's in warranty or Tumo has been coughing up for all the attempts to fix, in which case dealer is making $$ at Tumo's expense by his mis-diagnosis.

 

Crikey, I hope Tumo hasn't been billed for all those parts.  Poor guy if he has...