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nibbler

New Battery recommendations

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nibbler

Went to start "Ethel" this morning after she had stood over the weekend and the battery was as dead as a fart.  Called out the man in the orange van and he jumped it for me with no problems but it looks like I need a new battery.  So I'm looking for recommendations for a heavy duty battery  as I need to be able to power a satnav, heated groips and auxilary lights.

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elbee

Do you know the battery won't hold charge? Could be something draining it.

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embee

Stelios will be along shortly ………………...

 

Do a quick check of charging voltage first. Probably is the battery, but just check.

 

Just to say that the lithium battery I put on mine is doing sterling service ( https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/248963 ) , but there are a couple of considerations you need to take into account.

Are you using the bike in all weathers (i.e. cold)? Lithium batteries don't like being particularly cold, and the general advice is to switch the lights on for a few minutes to warm the battery first, then it will deliver the starting current OK if it has been soaking overnight at freezing temps.

What sort of time do you run it for each outing? A lead acid battery will take a lot longer to recharge than a lithium one, but will probably (possibly?) have a somewhat bigger available energy (Ah) capacity than the "equivalent" lithium.

Do you plan to use a maintenance charger regularly to keep it in tip top condition? If yes then a lead acid will quite possibly be a better solution.

Are you particularly cost sensitive? A suitable lithium will be considerably more expensive than a decent lead acid but is 1/4 the weight (1kg vs 4kg)

 

As for lead acid, obviously the OE Yuasa YTZ14S (or a YTZ12S will be effectively the same in real world use if you find one cheaper, same physical package size) will be a prime candidate. Others like Westco, Motobatt etc need to be checked to see if the cold starting current (CCA) rating is appropriate, broadly speaking CCA costs money, cheap batteries usually have lower CCA rating. The YTZ14S is rated at 230A, the YTZ12S is 210A, some others can be as low as 140A. They may work fine for a while, whether they will continue as they age is another matter. I'd suggest you need to be north of 200A to be comfortable.

Edited by embee
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nibbler

The bike had been stood all weekend with there Satnav wasn't connected to the bike and both the heated grips and auxiliary lights were off.  As soon as the RAC guy jumped the bike it fired first time.  The bike is kept outdoors and I ride it every day as rule as I commute to work on her in all weathers so as the battery is 4 years old then I would think that is a culprit as it normally fires first time but for the last couple of weeks it has been a bit sluggish after stood over the weekend.  I forgot to say that my commute is a an minimum of 40 minutes each way depending on traffic so it should have time to charge okay.

Edited by nibbler

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DaveM59

Yuasa or Varta are good brands. The NC is limited in alternative batteries due to the space available, larger capacities are invariably bigger physically. Try browsing Tayna Batteries and browse via bike model. Cheap batteries invariably are poor value long term, but also very expensive ones are unnecessary, stick with a normal AGM type.

Also remember disconnect earth first and connect it last.

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ste7ios
1 hour ago, nibbler said:

Went to start "Ethel" this morning after she had stood over the weekend and the battery was as dead as a fart.  Called out the man in the orange van and he jumped it for me with no problems but it looks like I need a new battery.  So I'm looking for recommendations for a heavy duty battery  as I need to be able to power a satnav, heated groips and auxilary lights.

Satnav, heated grips, aux lights, and any accessory in general must be powered exclusively by the generator and of course leave enough power to charge the battery.

 

An exception to the above is when idling where the battery is working as an energy  buffer because the generator can not produce enough power. One more exception are the accessories like an alarm or other electronics (like Scottoiler e-System oiler ). 

 

The time you need to run that kind of accessories (with engine off) defines any additional capacity... But additional capacity means more lead, more battery volume (and weight). You can not replace it with a bigger battery because of the limited space...

 

IMHO you will not find anything better than Yuasa YTZ-14S. They offer more Ah and more cranking amps than any other manufacturer. Let us know if see any similar battery...

 

But the problem with YTZ series and any other factory activated batteries is freshness. We can’t know the production date and how was maintained on the dealer ‘s shelf. It may have lost some of its capacity... Of course we can measure it but that will be after the purchase...

 

I’m in dilemma if a BS (BS suffix in battery code. Bottle Supplied) battery is a better choice because it will be fresh...

 

Anyway most probably you don’t need a bigger battery but a reliable battery. Yuasa, GS, and Varta are good batteries.

 

 

And we have LiFePO4 batteries... They can be a solution it’s suggested to buy one with its real Ah as close to the OEM specs, usually the biggest that can fit and you can buy... Forget the Pb equivalent sizes, they’re undersized for real life scenarios and robustness...

 

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ste7ios
31 minutes ago, nibbler said:

The bike had been stood all weekend with there Satnav wasn't connected to the bike and both the heated grips and auxiliary lights were off.  As soon as the RAC guy jumped the bike it fired first time.  The bike is kept outdoors and I ride it every day as rule as I commute to work on her in all weathers so as the battery is 4 years old then I would think that is a culprit as it normally fires first time but for the last couple of weeks it has been a bit sluggish after stood over the weekend.  I forgot to say that my commute is a an minimum of 40 minutes each way depending on traffic so it should have time to charge okay.

More than 40’ must be enough to fully charge an AGM battery (and stop sulfation) but it’s not guaranteed in traffic.

 

It will be a good idea to take some measurements to know what’s the charge status when at home. (Let it rest for 2-3 hours before taking any measurement).

 

Also check the health of your charging system and if there’s any parasitic drain more than the expected (as described in the service manual + any additional by an alarm, etc).

 

(parasitic drain decreases battery lifetime because of the increased sulfation unless you have a maintainer connected all the time).

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nibbler
35 minutes ago, ste7ios said:

 

 

IMHO you will not find anything better than Yuasa YTZ-14S. They offer more Ah and more cranking amps than any other manufacturer. Let us know if see any similar battery...

 

But the problem with YTZ series and any other factory activated batteries is freshness. We can’t know the production date and how was maintained on the dealer ‘s shelf. It may have lost some of its capacity... Of course we can measure it but that will be after the purchase...

 

 

I can get a YTZ-14S for £91 from Powerbiking so I think I might go for that.

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ste7ios

The price seems ok to me.

 

1st think after the purchase: fully charge it (overnight), let it rest (to absorb surface charge) for 2-3 hours (the longer, the better), and check its voltage (OCV: Open Circuit Voltage: Nothing connected on the battery).

 

It must be 13.0 to 12.9 V.

 

You may a quick look at

 

 TechManual.x78244.pdf

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embee

As Dave suggested, Tayna have the Yuasa YTZ14S at £75+8p&p = £83, they are a decent supplier by all accounts. https://www.tayna.co.uk/motorcycle-batteries/types/ytz14s/

Several of the others appear on paper to offer similar specs.

 

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White Skark

How about Moto-Batt, I have just replaced mine on the Goldwing and Pan 1100, they certainly turn the engine over a lot better than the Yuasa's I had on them, worth a thought

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ste7ios

Motobatt claims that their batteries contain more lead than their competitors which is good because that gives us a more durable battery (more resistant to sulfation) and stronger battery.

 

But I don’t see any product similar to Yuasa YTZ Series.

 

The most close to it is MBTZ14S but see the specs:

190 CCA, 11 Ah (10 HR)

 

Yuasa YTZ-14S:

230 CCA, 11.2 Ah (10 HR)

 

That Yuasa is more powerful (YTZ series are high performance batteries).

 

And there’s no mention on NC700/750 or other modern Honda bikes in their catalog... 

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klrman

No one has yet mentioned the rectifier/regulator,  which is traditionally one of Honda's weak spots. Before replacing the battery I would check the charging voltage. I think it should be between 13V and 14V. Any more than that and the battery will get 'cooked', resulting in premature failure. 

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ste7ios
38 minutes ago, klrman said:

No one has yet mentioned the rectifier/regulator,  which is traditionally one of Honda's weak spots. Before replacing the battery I would check the charging voltage. I think it should be between 13V and 14V. Any more than that and the battery will get 'cooked', resulting in premature failure. 

 

7 hours ago, ste7ios said:

...

Also check the health of your charging system and if there’s any parasitic drain more than the expected (as described in the service manual + any additional by an alarm, etc).

...

IMHO, the tradition has been broken by installing the latest MOSFET R/Rs by Shindengen in every modern Honda.

 

The charging voltage must be greater than battery voltage and less than 15.5 V according to the service manual of NC700XD 2012.

 

With a battery in good condition, start the engine to warm it up to operating temperature. Then turn off the engine, connect the multimeter probes, restart the engine with headlights on high beam. Take a measurement at 5000 RPM (generator’s max output).

 

The optimal charging voltage for an AGM battery is 14.4 V with a max of 14.7 V. A higher voltage may cause gassing (electrolyte depletion).

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embee

As Stelios says, the MOSFET reg/recs are way more reliable than the previous types, the volt drop across the semiconductors is much less so internal heat is greatly reduced, plus the voltage out is much more stable in my experience. They typically have an "FH" part number, (FH012, FH020 etc). I have updated my bikes with them, the SV650 and the 650 Deauville. I used second-hand parts from the auction site. The NC (and the 700 Deau come to that) have the MOSFET type fitted as OE.

One person on here has reported a failed reg/rec on an NC due to corrosion, they are situated behind the rear wheel arch liner and while not exactly exposed to road crud it is possible for stuff to get in there through the vent holes. I haven't heard of any other failures, so very unlikely to be an issue (but since it is so simple to check battery volts it's always worth doing just to eliminate the possibility).

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makman

Motobatt for me to be honest. I've had them in 5 bikes now and they do the job very well indeed for cold starting.  Daytona 900, Sprint RS, CB Two Fifty (oh yeah!), CBF500 and now my NC700X DCT.

 

The CBF500 one was 3 years old and still turning as sharply as ever. I know new owner is still bombing around on it in Bristol area.  The NC700 has survived one winter so far and like all the bike before, live on the road.

 

 

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matt28

Bought standard Exide ETZ14-BS for £34 for my NC, and never had even one issue with it, while £100 Yuasa failed after 7 months.

 

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White Skark

I have not had good results with Yuasa batteries lately

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