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shammy411

10w - 30 or 10w -40

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shammy411

Guys, no doubt this question may have been asked previously, but, when it comes to the oil on my nc700, the manual states 10w - 30 oil. Is it better to use 10w -30 rather than 10w - 40, its just that i already have the later oil to the ready. Am happy to use the correct oil but wasn't sure if this was really crutial. Advise would be welcome. Thanks

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klrman

Personally, I wouldn't use it to top up, but if doing an oil change c/ w filters, I'd fill up with it, provided that both oils meet the same spec, ie SAO, Jaso  and the like. 

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neojynx

Non DCT should be fine.  DCT may be more critical, I only use 10w30 myself on my DCT

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wendeg

The consensus here is that if it is a dct use 10w-30... for a manual 10w-40 may also be used. I use the latter but climate in Malta is warm. If i recall correctly embee uses 50:50.

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shammy411

Guys, it is a DCT, to be on the safe side i'll use the 10w -30 then. Thanks for the info

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Wedgepilot

I would stick to the 10w30. I once had my 700X serviced at the local Yamaha dealer as they are just down the road, and they put some "yamalube" of unknown viscosity in. The DCT never felt quite right with that oil, it wasn't as smooth. Going back to 10w30 improved things.

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Graham NZ

When the bike is cold then it's the 10W component which is working best.  When warmed to a certain point both the 30W and 40W will be working equally.  When the bike is being used hard and/or the temperature is hot then the 40W will operate better.  The summary of that is that for most situations it shouldn't matter at all if 10W-30 or 10W-40 are used but for cool climates and winter riding the lighter would have a slight advantage and vice versa.

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ste7ios

As the service manual says you can you use 10W-30 or 10W-40 depending the environmental temperature even on DCT models. Nothing else.

 

IMHO, 10W-30 is the obvious choice for UK and 10W-40 for southern countries...

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embee
13 hours ago, wendeg said:

...….. If i recall correctly embee uses 50:50.

The only reason I use a mix is that I have both grades on the shelf for other bikes. Castrol Power1 viscosities are right at the lower end of the grade range according to their data sheets, so if you did use 10W40 it's only a little higher viscosity (at the high temp end) than a 10W30 of another brand might be. 

Out of interest I tried a 50/50 mix of Power1 10W30 and 10W40, which of course is still a mixture not a new grade, and I find it works well in my Integra and while not highly technical I think it makes the engine slightly less clackety at idle. Just my personal take.

I think the others sum it up, as Stelios says, in the UK climate you'll be fine with 10W30, warmer climates then probably 10W40 would be a suitable choice. Not critical either way I suspect.

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sid

I've always used Motul 5100 10w-40. Never had an issue.

Tbh, the 40 grade seems to make gear changes a little less clunky.

As above though, I've read a few times that if the bike is a DCT, then the 30 grade works best.

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Andy m

OIL THREAD ALERT

 

10W40 here. Its cheaper, it's more readily available, it does what's required, at 8000 miles most of us are changing it early anyway. 

 

Spend your time checking your tyre pressures instead of fussing over something that'll effect the fifth owner of your bike. 

 

Andy

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Tonyj

Ah now we are talking , tyre pressure ! Got to be a long one this . I’ll start it . Should I use air or a mix . And what ratios work best for sporty commute/ touring use . Sometimes with a passenger but most times without . And mostly northern hemisphere, but I might go south . :0))

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  • Haha 4

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motorbykcourier

OK, here's my ten pence worth…..

I changed to 10w-40 after around 60K miles - main reasons were to see if it would quieten the clutch rattle and improve gear selection.

Been using it ever since and yes it did quieten down the engine, clutch and improve gear selection, nothing seems to have suffered - quite the opposite in fact, having now done 200K miles.

You need to remember I seldom take the bike out and do less that 150-200miles at a time.

Also at the start of a day I'm (normally) quite careful of speed and revs for the first few miles (5-6 miles), before 'relaxing' a bit.

FYI - we'll be covering deliveries tomorrow (Monday) from Cardiff and London.

 

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Andy m
13 minutes ago, Tonyj said:

Ah now we are talking , tyre pressure ! Got to be a long one this . I’ll start it . Should I use air or a mix . And what ratios work best for sporty commute/ touring use . Sometimes with a passenger but most times without . And mostly northern hemisphere, but I might go south . :0))

 If using Northern hemisphere Air in the south, you only need to use rear air in the front and vice versa. Of course if you are already running the tyre backwards to counter the inverse reverse steering the pressures will change and you'll need a vacuum pump. 

 

Andy

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embee

Get Graham in NZ to send you some bubble wrap and pop all the bubbles to get the right air for the south.

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sid
3 hours ago, motorbykcourier said:

OK, here's my ten pence worth…..

I changed to 10w-40 after around 60K miles - main reasons were to see if it would quieten the clutch rattle and improve gear selection.

Been using it ever since and yes it did quieten down the engine, clutch and improve gear selection, nothing seems to have suffered - quite the opposite in fact, having now done 200K miles.

You need to remember I seldom take the bike out and do less that 150-200miles at a time.

Also at the start of a day I'm (normally) quite careful of speed and revs for the first few miles (5-6 miles), before 'relaxing' a bit.

FYI - we'll be covering deliveries tomorrow (Monday) from Cardiff and London.

 

200k miles! - that's incredible.

Have you had any issues along the way? For example, what was the life of the clutch?

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Tonyj

Cheers lads , I was getting a bit worried about that . I don’t actually use my bike but you know best prepared 

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motorbykcourier
2 hours ago, sid said:

200k miles! - that's incredible.

Have you had any issues along the way? For example, what was the life of the clutch?

Hi Sid,

No issues yet with the clutch !!!

I've only had one 'failure' and that was a corroded wire on the ignition side.

At the moment I'm considering replacing the fuel pump (second hand) as there does appear to be the occasional issue.

Touch wood we keep going for a while yet :-)

 

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Steveb2418
3 hours ago, sid said:

200k miles! - that's incredible.

Have you had any issues along the way? For example, what was the life of the clutch?

And oil that doesn't cool between changes !   NC Engine immortality  !!!!!

Edited by Steveb2418
Corect

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sid
28 minutes ago, motorbykcourier said:

Hi Sid,

No issues yet with the clutch !!!

I've only had one 'failure' and that was a corroded wire on the ignition side.

At the moment I'm considering replacing the fuel pump (second hand) as there does appear to be the occasional issue.

Touch wood we keep going for a while yet :-)

 

That's brilliant.

I'm stunned mate - never thought a clutch would last that long for a start.

Just shows how good these bikes are I suppose.

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SteveThackery

The DCT model has a temperature sensor which measures the temperature of the oil in the gearbox.  It uses this to predict the viscosity of the oil.  It takes into account the viscosity of the oil when calculating how to modulate the valves which control the clutch engagement/disengagement.

 

If the oil is thicker than it expects, then the clutches move more sluggishly, making for a jerky changeover.  Obviously if the oil is unexpectedly thin the clutches move more quickly than anticipated, also causing an unsatisfactory changeover from one gear to the next.

 

Note that the DCT needs to know the viscosity of the oil, but does not measure it directly.  Instead it measures the temperature and then infers the viscosity of the oil.  This can only work if the oil has the correct grade (i.e. the expected viscosity at a given temperature).

 

Now, the specified viscosity ranges are rather wide for 10W-30 and 10W-40, and there is some overlap, but there is still a clear separation between the average 10W-30 viscosity and the average 10W-40 viscosity at normal running temperatures.  Honda specify 10W-30 for European temperatures, and the DCT control software assumes the oil has a viscosity somewhere near the average for a 10W-30.  

 

This small shortcoming of the system - it infers rather than measures the oil viscosity - is why I think you should always stick to 10W-30 for the DCT models.  That way you give it the best chance of getting the viscosity correct for the current temperature, and giving the best possible gearchange.  You can find a good write-up on this issue of oil viscosity if you find the Honda R&D website and look for papers on the development of the DCT system and the NC engine.  I've lost the link, but Google is your friend.

 

For the non-DCT model I think the situation is far less critical.  Although I nowadays stick to the recommended grades (because the manufacturer knows better than I do), I don't think any harm comes if you use a 5W-40 or a 10W-40 instead of a 10W-30.  At least, it never has done any harm in my 40+ years of motoring.

 

Edited by SteveThackery
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embee

I'd suggest always doing a DCT clutch initialisation procedure soon after doing an oil change. Allow the new oil a hundred or so miles just to stabilise, any slight changes in viscosity etc will happen very quickly once you start using it. The initialisation process takes literally a minute or 2 and consists simply of pushing buttons, no other equipment or tools required, but remember the engine must be at normal working temperature first. This will give you the best chance of having the clutch engagements and shift quality being optimum with fresh oil.

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shammy411

Guys, this is why i like this forum so much, the amount of valuable info just blows me away!. Thanks for all the input, although not so sure on this DCT clutch inialisation procedure ?. I have read orther articles and riders refer to this. Without opening another can of worms, can someone please explain the reason for this.

 

Thanks again

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klrman
On 07/10/2018 at 22:33, embee said:

I'd suggest always doing a DCT clutch initialisation procedure soon after doing an oil change. Allow the new oil a hundred or so miles just to stabilise, any slight changes in viscosity etc will happen very quickly once you start using it. The initialisation process takes literally a minute or 2 and consists simply of pushing buttons, no other equipment or tools required, but remember the engine must be at normal working temperature first. This will give you the best chance of having the clutch engagements and shift quality being optimum with fresh oil.

Pushing which buttons ? 

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Graham NZ

DCT (pre-2016) Reset Procedure

 

NB  Don't touch the throttle during the following procedure. The 2016 and later appear to be different for this.

 

1.     Have engine at normal temperature, check fan is not running, select neutral, switch off using key (NOT the kill switch).

 

2.     Hold gear selector button on D and turn on ignition.

 

3.     Continue to hold D until yellow check engine light (MIL) goes out, then release it.

 

4.     Press selector button in quick succession in the sequence D D N D N

 

5.     In the gear display the D and S will show, and the dash ( - ) should blink at 2 sec intervals. The system is now ready for learning the clutch initialisation.

 

6.     Press the starter and start the engine.

 

7.     Wait for the D & S and the ( - ) to go out.

 

8.     Initialisation is now complete, you can stop the engine and then use it as normal.

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