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neojynx

Rear wheel bearings

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neojynx

So, after my breakdown in London yesterday, I took the rear wheel off today and saw that the bearing had 'exploded' and there were ball bearings all over the place.  The axle collar is well damaged, but they are not easy to obtain so ill have to make do for now.

 

There were no tell tale signs of bearing wear beforehand as I check the bike all over every weekend.  Ah well, itll keep me busy this weekend.

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Tonyj

How many miles , mine went at 25thou

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neojynx
13 minutes ago, Tonyj said:

How many miles , mine went at 25thou

31000

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machinman
11 minutes ago, neojynx said:

31000

Mine were similar.

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Tonyj

Mine was done under warranty 

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Graham NZ

Wheel bearings can last much longer than 31,000 miles but they can also fail much younger.  Whenever the opportunity arises I like to press some grease into the races because as new the grease can be sparse and if some is good more is better.

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Grumpy old man

34000 and two sets of rear wheel bearings, one set under warranty at 18000 and I've just changed the them.

 

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machinman

Ive just changed the carrier bearing at 40,000. It seemed ok, but i had one, so changed it.

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Tonyj

Does seem a bit of a coincidence that the failure rate is around the same miles for its use ? . I did think , is it the way I’ve washed it etc but I just think it’s a life span issue.

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embee

I changed my rear bearings at 20k miles as a precaution, based on the reports of failures between 20-30k. They felt perfectly smooth, however cages breaking up (as the OP describes) is an unpredictable failure and not necessarily associated with "wear" as such. I don't know what type of cage the OE bearings use, usually a rivetted pressed steel 2 piece affair but sometimes a plastic type can be used. Mine were made by NSK, usually a respectable manufacturer.

 

As replacements I used SKF from https://www.bearingsrus.co.uk/

Other suppliers I've used in the past are http://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/  and  https://simplybearings.co.uk/

I got 2 sets (very low cost in the big scheme of things) at the time I did the rears, and I think I'll now do the fronts, again as a precaution.

Note that you shouldn't use C3 grade bearings in wheels.

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neojynx
On 12/10/2018 at 11:19, embee said:

As replacements I used SKF from https://www.bearingsrus.co.uk/

Other suppliers I've used in the past are http://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/  and  https://simplybearings.co.uk/

 

 

Do you know what size the bearing are, the wheel ones are both the same and the sprocket is bigger.  Do you have the specs, or let me know the right way to measure them for next I look for cheaper ones

 

thanks

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embee

You used to be able to see the relevant dimensions in the fiches at https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/ but for some reason they seem to have clipped the descriptions short.

 

The bearings in the wheels are referred to as "deep groove single row ball bearings" size 6204 with 2 rubber seals, which can be designated in a variety of ways but typically 6204-2RS . Bearings come in various standard sizes, 6204 means 20mm bore, 47mm outside, and 14mm width. https://www.bearingsrus.co.uk/bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearing/metric-deep-groove-ball-bearing/6204-2rs-skf#product_tabs_additional_tabbed

To be honest I don't know what the "H" is for in those (6204-2RSH), but those are what I used.

Note that seals are not the same as "shields", which are metal covers which keep most contaminants out but have a small gap (not actually sealed), these are usually designated with a Z or 2Z for 2 shields.

There are a series of bearings with increased clearances, and are designated C3. These should not be used in motorcycle wheels (more commonly used in electric motors etc).

 

The sprocket carrier bearing is a different animal, I believe it is a double row angular contact bearing, and in the NC it appears to be not a standard industry bearing. Looking at similar spec bearings the prices are not wildly different to the Honda parts prices for these (around the £30 mark), and I'd suggest that if you do in fact need to replace the carrier bearing it's probably easiest to bite the bullet and get it from a Honda dealer, unless anyone else has identified a source. Note there is a stepped collar inside the carrier bearing which needs to be transferred to a new one.

Edited by embee
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Wedgepilot

Hmmm, my bike has just hit 24k on the original bearings and now I'm worried 😥

How tricky is it to change them for a DIYer with basic tools and limited skills? 

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machinman
5 hours ago, embee said:

Note there is a stepped collar inside the carrier bearing which needs to be transferred to a new one

Ive just changed the carrier bearing (40000). Easy enough, but the collar is very thin and needs to be pressed out carefully to avoid damage.

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embee

I believe the carrier bearing is 22mm bore, so the sleeve wall is only 1mm nominally for fitting over the 20mm spindle..

Edited by embee

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neojynx
2 hours ago, Wedgepilot said:

Hmmm, my bike has just hit 24k on the original bearings and now I'm worried 😥

How tricky is it to change them for a DIYer with basic tools and limited skills? 

Straightforward if youre careful.. All you really need is a good hammer and a big screwdriver see attached link below

 

 

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embee

A couple of comments on the above vid.

IIRC the manual says fit the disc side bearing first, fully home in the housing. Then fit the spacer tube and chain side bearing second. This should be fitted only just far enough to "just" nip the spacer, such that there is no residual axial load in the bearings. If you tap the bearings in on the outer race be careful to repeatedly check the spacer for nip and stop when it just takes up the slack. Don't knock bearings in using the inner race, this puts the impulse through the ball bearings and can damage the raceways. You can do it the way shown but be careful.

 

My preferred method is with flat faced anvils or dollies which bear on both inner and outer races together and using threaded rod through the middle to pull them into place, this puts the insertion loads into the outer race but prevents forcing them in beyond where the inner race meets the spacer. My home made kit looks like this

5bc3a9c38fd42_IMG_5245reduced.jpg.ed2d5a6aec20c02bcd2112632970c284.jpg

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neojynx

I found that the bearings didnt come out and didnt go in quite as easily as in the video.  Not much harder but harder all the same.  Yes I tapped them in across the out & inner races as you can see how fragile these things are if you open one up.  There's actually not much to them and suppose the way they are fitted allows them to keep their strength.

 

 

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Andy m

Pop the new bearings in a placcy bag in the freezer the night before and lean the wheel against a radiator. They'll drop into place like a politicians snout in the trough.

 

Hammers are a less favored choice for getting scrap out, but I really would avoid using them to assemble very much. A foot of M12 threaded rod, nuts, some huge washers and those clicky ring spanners are your friend if you can't run to the Sealy version.  A couple of butter knives with 90 degree bends bent in them are better than screwdrivers for getting seals out too, just have a good story for the wife.

 

Andy 

Edited by Andy m
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giley
50 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Pop the new bearings in a placcy bag in the freezer the night before and lean the wheel against a radiator. They'll drop into place like a politicians snout in the trough.

 

Hammers are a less favored choice for getting scrap out, but I really would avoid using them to assemble very much. A foot of M12 threaded rod, nuts, some huge washers and those clicky ring spanners are your friend if you can't run to the Sealy version.  A couple of butter knives with 90 degree bends bent in them are better than screwdrivers for getting seals out too, just have a good story for the wife.

 

Andy 

 

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Andy m

This ones better? 

 

Andy

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rjp996
On 10/14/2018 at 21:41, embee said:

A couple of comments on the above vid.

IIRC the manual says fit the disc side bearing first, fully home in the housing. Then fit the spacer tube and chain side bearing second. This should be fitted only just far enough to "just" nip the spacer, such that there is no residual axial load in the bearings.

 

Thats interesting - when i changed my front wheel bearings, the wheel has stops that the bearings go in up to on each side, however... after i installed the second bearing i noticed that the spacer tube between them was no longer loose... i sort of assumed that the bearings begin sealed (metal) on both sides maybe they were a fraction larger, but maybe I should not have driven the bearing in until it seated to the internal wheel ridge ?? did I maybe do it wrong

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Iron horse
On 15/10/2018 at 14:51, Andy m said:

Pop the new bearings in a placcy bag in the freezer the night before and lean the wheel against a radiator. They'll drop into place like a politicians snout in the trough.

 

Hammers are a less favored choice for getting scrap out, but I really would avoid using them to assemble very much. A foot of M12 threaded rod, nuts, some huge washers and those clicky ring spanners are your friend if you can't run to the Sealy version.  A couple of butter knives with 90 degree bends bent in them are better than screwdrivers for getting seals out too, just have a good story for the wife.

 

Andy 

Don't make the mistake I made. I put the bearings in the freezer and by the time I was ready to fit the new ones, I'd completely forgotten where I'd put them!

 

I used the old bearings on top the new ones to tap them in, hitting the outer race only. Also applied a smear of grease on to ease them in.

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nibbler

Just had to have both the front and rear bearings replaced during my 40,000 mile service. Apparently both were shot but I hadn't felt any difference in Ethel's handling.

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Graham NZ
16 minutes ago, nibbler said:

Just had to have both the front and rear bearings replaced during my 40,000 mile service. Apparently both were shot but I hadn't felt any difference in Ethel's handling.

 

A bit of roughness may be enough for a replacement call to be made but that fault may not be enough to allow significant lateral movement at the wheel rims, which is what affects handling.

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