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Can do biker

DIY 16K Service on NC750X DCT

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Mr Toad
9 hours ago, Can do biker said:

I also realise that some people are too scared to tackle these jobs and prefer a 'professional' to do it.

 

I think you'd be very lucky to get one of those.

 

Often you get poor to averagely trained spanner monkey who has little interest in doing a professional job and probably spends more time wondering where his next cup of tea is coming from than checking he's got the toque settings right on whatever bolt he's mangling with the wrong tool at the time.

 

Cynical me...................

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Tex

I can honestly say that in my fifty years of twirling spanners for a living I never met anyone who wasn’t trying to do a good job. Some were better than others, true. But the same can be said of any profession from dustbin men to doctors.  And (seeing how we’re pointing fingers) I love it that the OP claims to have done the job ‘properly’ then admits he never checked the valves..  

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neojynx

I also do my own servicing.  I do around 800-900 miles a week so my mileage goes up very quickly.  Oil changes with filter of course, brakes, front and rear, sprockets, chain, wheel bearings and the last job was fork seals.

 

None of the jobs have been hard just needed thinking about.  Next job will be the valve clearances and coolant as well.  Then start all over again with the other jobs I guess. 

 

It has saved a fortune though. Dont know what tyres youre using but Im on my 3rd tyre and theres plenty left even at 34000 miles.  Mind you Im mainly motorway miles.

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elbee

My wife had a low spec Terrano from new. Service just once to keep warranty, then only ever fixed as required. Never broke down. Selling after 12 years she could have given it away due to those savings. It worked for her, not sure many would have the balls to do that!

 

I've never had bikes serviced as such, just paying for specific jobs I can't or don't want to do. Again all those £70(?)/hour saved means I can feel good setting a lower price, someone also gets a bargain when I come to trade and more options are open.

 

Air filter change: If the engine is running trouble-free, giving the same mpg, and I hadn't been riding in the Sahara, I wouldn't bother. Thoughts?

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Roy Atkinson

elbee, thats a good point, if your only doing mileage in the UK, how often do you really need to change that air filter.

What have people found when they have taken out the air filter. Is it really ready to change at 16,000 miles or more.

Or will 25,000 miles do.

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embee

I've done a fair bit of professional development work on air cleaners. In the UK today the air quality is pretty good compared to how it used to be (coal fires etc), and we don't generally have high dust concentrations. Small particulate matter (soot, diesel particulates etc are bad for this) is what tends to cause filter clogging, larger dust usually stays reasonably porous when in the airbox so doesn't impede airflow as much.

Filter media are progressive, the dirty side has a relatively open weave/matrix which catches the big stuff, then it gets progressively finer going towards the clean side. This maximises the dirt capacity for a given pressure drop increase.

I work on 25k miles as a perfectly reasonable life for most air filters in the UK, and if you're in clean areas (Scottish highlands etc) you could happily extend it further. Different markets will have different environments, some of the worst being Australian dirt roads with dust like talcum powder which cakes in my experience

You'll usually notice that dirt accumulates in one patch on an air filter. This is intentional. If the incoming air is directed at one area the larger dirt particles will accumulate in that area and leave the bulk of the remainder of the filter relatively clean, extending the service life.

 

Just one tip on the valve clearances. Take care engaging the cam cover fixings and don't overtighten. Only turn the engine in the correct forward direction (OK, that's 2 tips) in order to not load the camchain tensioner, the engine turns in the same direction as the wheels.

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TheEnglishman
9 hours ago, embee said:

 

 

Just one tip on the valve clearances. Take care engaging the cam cover fixings and don't overtighten.

 

 

Third tip - make sure the rocker cover gasket is clean.  And make sure it's not perished - the bit that goes seems to be the bit thats right in front of the carburettor - so you get an oil leak that will take you ages to track down.

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Tonyj

While on possible money saving tips . Ie 16/25k use blakies to make your heel last longer on your shoes :0)

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coopers12345
17 hours ago, Roy Atkinson said:

elbee, thats a good point, if your only doing mileage in the UK, how often do you really need to change that air filter.

What have people found when they have taken out the air filter. Is it really ready to change at 16,000 miles or more.

Or will 25,000 miles do.

 

 

I changed mine for a KN air filter at 16k, so now all it costs me is time to get it out and clean it. UK air might not be the dirtiest market that the bike is marketed in but judging from the amount of dust that drifts across from the continent and coats my car from time to time it's definitely not 'clean'.

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machinman
4 hours ago, Tonyj said:

While on possible money saving tips . Ie 16/25k use blakies to make your heel last longer on your shoes :0)

They'll hear you coming😂😂

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Andy m
23 hours ago, Tex said:

I can honestly say that in my fifty years of twirling spanners for a living I never met anyone who wasn’t trying to do a good job. 

 

I've had dozens if not hundreds on training I've given. Mechanicing has become one of many dumping grounds for failed rappers, trainee professional football players between jobs and their wives. It may be better with bikes as more may be interested, but get the one who's busy imagining Simon Cowell begging him to sign the contract and you are way better going DIY.  Logo'd workshops are by far the worst. They can survive on first oil changes, so why employ people who can do diagnosis. They have a reputation for charging more, so get less practice too. 

 

Andy

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Tex

Perhaps it’s a generational thing then? I doubt Simon Cowell was even born when I took my first faltering steps in the industry. :) And I have been retired 10 years next month :D 

 

You’re probably more in touch with current practices than I am so I will listen to what you say. But I still struggle to accept that someone completely unqualified can do a better job (having watched a You Tube video FFS!) than a properly trained dealership mechanic who will have done numerous factory courses in addition to his NVQ etc. Bit of a kick in the teeth for folks like, say, Trisaki is it not? 

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DaveM59

Subtle difference is that an amateur only needs to know the current bike they own and gain their knowledge from experience and past vehicles. They are interested and keen to do a good job because it's their vehicle and investment.

A professional goes on courses covering many different vehicles, can't always remember all of it, or can't be bothered because it's just a job they possibly aren't all that interested in so tend not to retain historical knowledge much. Sure they have better tools and backup from colleagues but enthusiasm is always the key ingredient between a good mechanic or a dud one.

On the flip side  there are ham fisted DIYers who strip threads and make jobs much harder than they need be if a little more care and thought were applied first. Some of the Youtube videos make me cringe although they are basically doing the right thing, their approach looks heavy handed and could be more sympathetic.

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Rocker66

I don’t think many motorcycle mechanics think of it as justva job considering that the wages are not great and that they have to go to college and manufactures trading centres to get their qualifications plus the fact many of them have to buy their own tools. I think you have to be quite keen to go through that lot.

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Tonyj

Some people are chancers , just blagging it . Others are diligent. Some outlets are fair others have a whiff of incompetence about them . Luck of the draw really.

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Roy Atkinson

Ok. Mechanics may only get £12 an hour but we are paying £70 an hour for it.

So we want £70 worth of expert time and effort, not £25 worth.

The rates are shocking and even the price they charge per gallon for the engine oil, is a rip off.

No wonder people start doing their own servicing etc.

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outrunner

You do realise that £70 per hour has to cover many things like rent, rates, insurance, heating, lighting, equipment, phone calls to order parts, etc. I will admit however that some dealers go over the top with rates they charge, my local guy charges £45 per hour plus VAT and even then some folk moan about it, you can't please all the people all the time.

 

 

Andy.

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elbee

I think a few of us who know a little about our bikes can get a bit outraged when "X needs replacing", mechanic tuts, but we know there is plenty of life left in a component X.

 

Something that may bump up car service costs is "estimating wear & mileage before the next service". This isn't a criticism but just looking after customers who wouldn't dream of opening a bonnet. So if {brake pads or tyre depth or oil filter service etc} are all absolutely fine now, but could need replacing before the next service then they should be replaced because sure as hell nobody's going to check any of that stuff once it leaves the garage.

 

With my wife's current car she's a "slowish/low on the brakes/relaxed corners driver" who'll get a tread depth warning on a tyre and get the same again the next year. But the garage knows she'll check depths. Same garage with an "I won't check" customer would have changed that tyre two years ago.

 

Handily, she has a service just before winter and an MoT six months later meaning it gets professionally safety-checked quite often.

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commuter
On 11/23/2018 at 09:03, Tex said:

I can honestly say that in my fifty years of twirling spanners for a living I never met anyone who wasn’t trying to do a good job. Some were better than others, true. But the same can be said of any profession from dustbin men to doctors.  And (seeing how we’re pointing fingers) I love it that the OP claims to have done the job ‘properly’ then admits he never checked the valves..  

Yep! never checked the valves ....just like the last "professional "  who worked on one of my bikes. Properly stitched up would be more apt. These days, I check the valves on OHC engines at least once in a blue moon. OHV engines a bit more regular since OHVs are more reliant on joints bedding in and all the usual moving bits rather than just the contact between cam and bucket or cam and rocker. OHV engines are worth checking after rebuilds at 1000, 2000,4000 then every 10,000.

 With OHC engines I am a lot more interested in sifting the oil and filter for metal particles than looking at the valves at all.

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Can do biker
On 23/11/2018 at 09:19, neojynx said:

I also do my own servicing.  I do around 800-900 miles a week so my mileage goes up very quickly.  Oil changes with filter of course, brakes, front and rear, sprockets, chain, wheel bearings and the last job was fork seals.

 

None of the jobs have been hard just needed thinking about.  Next job will be the valve clearances and coolant as well.  Then start all over again with the other jobs I guess. 

 

It has saved a fortune though. Dont know what tyres youre using but Im on my 3rd tyre and theres plenty left even at 34000 miles.  Mind you Im mainly motorway miles.

The original tyre lasted 5000, then a Dunlop Sportmax lasted about 6500 miles followed by a Pirelli Road Angel which did about 6000 miles.  Almost zero motorway miles for me and almost all with a pillion.  Maybe that explains the wear?  I'm replacing each tyre with an increasingly more expensive one to see whether the additional cost translates into more miles or not.

 

Choosing my words carefully as I don't want to light any more touch papers.  And 'yet' was used to imply something that has already been started (the 16K service) is to end soon...e.g by completing the valve clearance check...which will also be done properly like the other parts of the service?  ;-)

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Iron horse

Well I don't claim to do the job better than a professional mechanic, but I do it a lot cheaper. My second valve clearance check was way better than the first. For me it is not just about the money, but also the convenience of doing servicing bits when I have a bit of spare time at the weekend or evening. Taking the bike to a garage can be a bit of a faff in terms of getting into work late or leaving early. I would also really want a loan bike but not everyone has them. Doing it myself means a big service can be split over a few days. Perhaps oil/filter one weekend, valves and coolant the following etc. 

 

As a matter of course, tyres and chains are done by the professionals though but are fairly quick while u wait jobs. Oh, and I get the mot done at the garage too!

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Rick

Just a small point but I always change the oil last after everything else has been serviced to make sure I do not contaminate it doing the valves etc.

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Can do biker

Update:

 

Checked the valve clearances today, they were all fine...eventually.  Had a slight issue with the instructions shown in the service manual I had, they were incorrect and resulted in too much noise.  I found another manual on another site that was correct.  The conflict was with the markings on the cam chain sprocket and whether they should be lined up with the mark at the top or bottom of the cylinder head (in addition to the mark visible on the flywheel of course).  One source said top, the other said bottom.  One resulted in a lot of noise the other in a lovely smooth purr.  All good fun.

 

Bike running as sweet as a nut, new coolant too and 16K service complete...but then noticed the rear wheel bearing had a bit of play in it.  No I don't use a power washer to clean it before you ask.  It has been out in all weathers though, and is on its third winter.  Quick enough job though, just need to order some bearings now...  Surprised that the bearing has gone already, it was fine when I had the rear wheel out last month changing the tyre otherwise I could have done it then.  Lousy timing.

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Iron horse
1 hour ago, Can do biker said:

Update:

 

Checked the valve clearances today, they were all fine...eventually.  Had a slight issue with the instructions shown in the service manual I had, they were incorrect and resulted in too much noise.  I found another manual on another site that was correct.  The conflict was with the markings on the cam chain sprocket and whether they should be lined up with the mark at the top or bottom of the cylinder head (in addition to the mark visible on the flywheel of course).  One source said top, the other said bottom.  One resulted in a lot of noise the other in a lovely smooth purr.  All good fun.

 

Bike running as sweet as a nut, new coolant too and 16K service complete...but then noticed the rear wheel bearing had a bit of play in it.  No I don't use a power washer to clean it before you ask.  It has been out in all weathers though, and is on its third winter.  Quick enough job though, just need to order some bearings now...  Surprised that the bearing has gone already, it was fine when I had the rear wheel out last month changing the tyre otherwise I could have done it then.  Lousy timing.

Rear wheel bearings are pretty common and discussed a lot on this forum. I had to do mine back in the summer.

 

A fairly straight forward job, although the a sprocket carrier bearings can be tricky to get, but didn't need to do mine. Just the main wheel bearings and all was good again.

 

The second attempt at doing to valves was much easier for me. The only marks I used were the ones on the flywheel. Finding tdc on the compression stroke is easier with familiarity. Glad you got it sorted

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