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fred_jb

It's official - I'm getting a BMW R1250RS!

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baben

Interesting thoughts Fred . I test rode the RS1200 and liked it a lot though I reckoned it would need bar risers and I did not rate the screen. I was actually put off by the sheer amount of electronics on the thing. It just looked like a problem waiting to happen - bear in mind that my previous BMW had an ABS unit failure so I do not believe that their kit is anything special in that respect. The ride was lovely though and the handling beautiful. They carry their weight low so they feel lighter than they actually are. A mate has got one and has piled the miles onto it with no complaints so they must be ok. But I for one will never again succumb to the lure of the suited lizards........

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fred_jb
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, baben said:

Interesting thoughts Fred . I test rode the RS1200 and liked it a lot though I reckoned it would need bar risers and I did not rate the screen. I was actually put off by the sheer amount of electronics on the thing. It just looked like a problem waiting to happen - bear in mind that my previous BMW had an ABS unit failure so I do not believe that their kit is anything special in that respect. The ride was lovely though and the handling beautiful. They carry their weight low so they feel lighter than they actually are. A mate has got one and has piled the miles onto it with no complaints so they must be ok. But I for one will never again succumb to the lure of the suited lizards........

 

Yes I agree that the electronics are a potential liability and they will only guarantee the active suspension units up to 30k miles I believe, but they are incredibly effective.   The screen is rubbish as I was reminded when riding it to the dealer with the original screen back on, as while I had the bike I had replaced it with a larger and taller screen to which I had a attached a Givi AirFlow secondary screen as Givi don't make a dual screen for the GS LC.  My homemade one was very effective and transformed the bike.  I also put bar risers on because the almost but not quite upright angle with the standard bars exacerbated an old back injury.

 

 

Edited by fred_jb

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Trev

Nice looking bike Fred, bet you have some fun on that :thumbsup:

 

 ...... and not all of us are anti-GS, like most things in life you get smattering of absolute cocks no matter what their creed, colour, religion or choice of bike and I much prefer to make judgement about the person rather than how they look or what they ride ...... apart from those snooty NC riders of course :whistle:

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Rocker66
9 minutes ago, Trev said:

.. apart from those snooty NC riders of course :whistle:

Well there’s not too many of them on here.

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Spindizzy

That's a rather decent looking piece of kit. 

 

Don't worry Fred,  I would wave to you despite being one of those Snobby NC riders. Well actually its the NCX folks that are the snobs, the NCS riders however don't suffer this malady :poke:

 

I look forward to the "Fred does an 'A Team' makeover of his bike. 

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KingJames
12 hours ago, Trev said:

...... apart from those snooty NC riders of course :whistle:

Sounds like an oxymoron to me

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macamx

Just a quick observation with regard to the "GS" mob. I am extremely fortunate in that I live at the foot of the North Pennines in the Tees Valley.  During the spring/summer/autumn there are literally hundreds of the things swarming around here. There is great sport to be had by watching men of a certain age tottering around on tiptoe or going red in the face as they try and lever God knows how many stones of fully kitted out Bavarian hardware up onto the stand whilst sweating their cobblers off in a grand worth of "adventure suit"  having ridden not too many miles from one of the nearby conurbations to one of the cafes in Barny of Middleton.

 

Geoff.

 

 

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fred_jb
1 hour ago, macamx said:

Just a quick observation with regard to the "GS" mob. I am extremely fortunate in that I live at the foot of the North Pennines in the Tees Valley.  During the spring/summer/autumn there are literally hundreds of the things swarming around here. There is great sport to be had by watching men of a certain age tottering around on tiptoe or going red in the face as they try and lever God knows how many stones of fully kitted out Bavarian hardware up onto the stand whilst sweating their cobblers off in a grand worth of "adventure suit"  having ridden not too many miles from one of the nearby conurbations to one of the cafes in Barny of Middleton.

 

Geoff.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean and I have tried very hard not to be one of that mob.  Eschewing the metal can luggage for conventional plastic stuff has helped disguise my ride a bit, and I have made most of my outings to less GS infested and sunnier southern climes, and even there have avoided the GS magnet locations like the various famous passes!  :D

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lazlo woodbine

It Tom and I'm a recovering GS'er. I had four of them would have one again for the sublime riding experience and the road presence. I started with GS's back in BC(Before Charlie) when my friends were riding sports bikes and slagging me for riding an old mans bike. I could probably manage the weight as demonstrated by my recent Tenerife experience but mechanical laziness and a reluctance to invest my meagre savings on a toy keep me with Honda. I would never in a million years consider taking a GS on the goat tracks that I ride on the Rally.

I love the look of your new steed Fred. I wish you the very best with her and look forward to reading about your adventures.I'm not jealous-Oh no not me:D

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SteveThackery

Congratulations, Fred.

 

When I was shopping for my F800GT I had a sit on a GS and an RS.  I felt slightly intimidated by the GS - it feels awfully big and high off the ground.  The RS, on the other hand, felt tiny by comparison and I loved it.

 

The trouble with the GS is that it's an "Adventure" style bike, which means it is styled to ape an off-roader (like our NCs, in fact).  Yes, I know you can take the GS off-road, but how many of us do that, honestly?

 

For me the RS is a far more honest bike.  It doesn't ape anything - its form follows its intended function almost perfectly.  The only niggle is my perennial one: why can't anybody apart from Royal Enfield fit mudguards that actually work?  The one on the front of the RS is vestigial and clearly useless, and it doesn't seem to have one on the back at all.

 

Apart from that ridiculous nod to the styling "imperatives", I think it's a superb bike and I'd love one if I could afford it.

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baben

Out this morning for a ride with NAM. Just three of us, me on Tigger, PhilnMary on an FJR1300 and Chris on a GS. Great fun and when Chris was leading it was hard work keeping up! I think the GS i just a damn good all round motorcycle but not really an all terrain vehicle though we did do a bit of green laning this morning (Satnag woes). My main concern would be the likelihood of something going horribly wrong. Suspension, final drive, electronics. I seriously think the only electronics my next bike will have will be the ABS unit. I may have to swap the spring at the back end for something adjustable though and get the forks revalved. Sound familiar?

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SteveThackery
13 minutes ago, baben said:

My main concern would be the likelihood of something going horribly wrong. Suspension, final drive, electronics. I seriously think the only electronics my next bike will have will be the ABS unit.

 

I know what you mean, although really electronic systems can be made extremely reliable and durable.  It's really very rare for an electronics module in a car to fail these days.  The ageing and failure mechanisms for electronic components are very limited in number compared with mechanical devices.

 

I get the impression that a lot of failures are actually in the thing being controlled, rather than the electronics box itself.  There's no doubt that electronically-controlled suspension is more complex than the non-controlled stuff we are used to, and that will lead to more failure modes, plus a lot more expense when they need replacing.  I guess it's up to each of us to decide how much benefit we get from the extra control features, compared with the higher repair costs down the line.  Personally I think I err on the side of simplicity - I don't think I would pay extra for the electronically controlled suspension on my F800GT if I was buying a new one.

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fred_jb

I agree that the electronics modules themselves are likely to be highly reliable, but it is the sensors and actuators which interface them to the real world which are the most vulnerable to failure, and in the case of the suspension I guess the damping and preload adjustment actuators are not separately replaceable so any failure means the whole unit needs replacing.

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wpbrown
20 hours ago, fred_jb said:

 

Hi Paul.  I did originally intend to buy an RS as it is more my style of bike, but the previous generation RS was somewhat behind the GS in terms of gadgets, and in particular lacked the then latest generation of ESA electronic suspension with auto preload adjustment...…...

I hope that explains my thinking, and is of some interest.

Thank you Fred. An excellent summary and thought provoking for me. 

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Woody 99
1 hour ago, SteveThackery said:

Congratulations, Fred.

 

When I was shopping for my F800GT I had a sit on a GS and an RS.  I felt slightly intimidated by the GS - it feels awfully big and high off the ground.  

I had a sit on a GS once. Well, on four (600, 700, 800 as well as the Big Daddy) to be precise. The sales force at the BM dealer tried to convince me, a complete novice at the time, to learn on the bike I intended to ride. Or, in other words, “buy the 1200, it’s on offer for only 21,000 Swiss francs”. After taking a lesson on the GS 700 and stalling it 43 times in 90 minutes I decided to buy a DCT and I’ve never looked back. The twelve and a half grand I saved by buying the NCX instead of the GS 1200 has astutely been spent on farkles and gear. At least that’s what SWMBO would have you believe. Personally, I doubt I’ve spent even half of that. 

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Steveb2418
1 hour ago, baben said:

Out this morning for a ride with NAM. Just three of us, me on Tigger, PhilnMary on an FJR1300 and Chris on a GS. Great fun and when Chris was leading it was hard work keeping up! I think the GS i just a damn good all round motorcycle but not really an all terrain vehicle though we did do a bit of green laning this morning (Satnag woes). My main concern would be the likelihood of something going horribly wrong. Suspension, final drive, electronics. I seriously think the only electronics my next bike will have will be the ABS unit. I may have to swap the spring at the back end for something adjustable though and get the forks revalved. Sound familiar?

I was a Sgt who  served in NAM ..........yea TwickenNAM   

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fred_jb
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wpbrown said:

Thank you Fred. An excellent summary and thought provoking for me. 

No problem.

 

I might have been a bit unclear about one thing so will expand a little in case it is of interest to anybody.   That is that the earlier ESA suspension systems do have electronic preload adjustment, but the issue with it is that it just has a choice of three manually selected presets (rider , rider  + luggage, rider + pillion + luggage).   These are presumably based on average values for rider, pillion and luggage weights, so as well as having to remember to change the setting, the preload applied and the associated automatic adjustment of rebound and compression damping to suit each of these presets are unlikely to be exactly right for the actual load.   The later ESA version measures the front and rear suspension deflection and from this can calculate the exact weight on the bike and make exactly the right preload and damping adjustments, albeit it only adjusts to any changes after you start moving.  Not sure why that is but it can mean the preload is momentarily incorrect as I found once when the bike had last been ridden solo and when setting off the next time with my wife on the suspension initially compressed to the extent that the side stand was trapped and couldn't be retracted, so she had to get off so that I could do it!

 

 

Edited by fred_jb
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Rev Ken
7 hours ago, macamx said:

Just a quick observation with regard to the "GS" mob. I am extremely fortunate in that I live at the foot of the North Pennines in the Tees Valley.  During the spring/summer/autumn there are literally hundreds of the things swarming around here. There is great sport to be had by watching men of a certain age tottering around on tiptoe or going red in the face as they try and lever God knows how many stones of fully kitted out Bavarian hardware up onto the stand whilst sweating their cobblers off in a grand worth of "adventure suit"  having ridden not too many miles from one of the nearby conurbations to one of the cafes in Barny of Middleton.

 

Geoff.

 

 

I was chatting to a couple of AA patrol men who told me they enjoyed recovering GS bikes that fell off Hardnott Pass!

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Rev Ken
On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 13:00, fred_jb said:

Well the GS is now at the dealers - and I'm temporarily bikeless, sob, sob! :cry:

 

Thanks for all your support and understanding of the process whereby another change of bike starts off as vague musings and, after some serious agonising over the finances,  progresses through to all out new bike lust!  I notice none of you tried to stop me, but maybe I'm just regarded as a lost cause due to my past history! 

 

The picture below is the same as the new RS I am getting.   My existing Shad luggage will fit on without any mods required, and the bike is a little lower and lighter than the GS, and to my mind quite a bit better looking.  The fact that I will no longer be in the seemingly despised GS rider fraternity, and will hopefully be a little more anonymous on a much less commonly seen bike, is another bonus!

 

R_1250_RS%20with%20rack-XL.jpg

 

 

When the RS was a 'new' model I wanted to have a test run, but 'the computer said NO' as I was 76. The next year I was a marshal on a BMW open day and rode as many models as I liked.:dielaugh:. Of all the bikes I rode the RS was my favourite, and  if I had been 20 years younger, and richer, I would have bought it. However my belt driven F800 GT does me fine. (But I haven't been on it for over a month due to radiotherapy and will know I am on the way back to 'normal' when I am fit enough to go for a ride. I'm glad to say the future looks optimistic. Oh did I tell you that SWMBO was also diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of months after me? Lumpectomy, plus radiotherapy, and she too has an optimistic future. We are blessed.)

 

Enjoy it Fred, and regards to your long suffering better half.....:angel:

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fred_jb
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Rev Ken said:

When the RS was a 'new' model I wanted to have a test run, but 'the computer said NO' as I was 76. The next year I was a marshal on a BMW open day and rode as many models as I liked.:dielaugh:. Of all the bikes I rode the RS was my favourite, and  if I had been 20 years younger, and richer, I would have bought it. However my belt driven F800 GT does me fine. (But I haven't been on it for over a month due to radiotherapy and will know I am on the way back to 'normal' when I am fit enough to go for a ride. I'm glad to say the future looks optimistic. Oh did I tell you that SWMBO was also diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of months after me? Lumpectomy, plus radiotherapy, and she too has an optimistic future. We are blessed.)

 

Enjoy it Fred, and regards to your long suffering better half.....:angel:

 

Thanks Ken - it's good to get an endorsement of my choice from probably the most experienced rider on the forum!

 

I'm pleased to hear that you and your wife are both doing well - keep up the good work!

 

 

Edited by fred_jb
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pjm

Great news for Fred and truly wonderful news for Ken and Mrs Ken.

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fred_jb
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

Congratulations, Fred.

 

When I was shopping for my F800GT I had a sit on a GS and an RS.  I felt slightly intimidated by the GS - it feels awfully big and high off the ground.  The RS, on the other hand, felt tiny by comparison and I loved it.

 

The trouble with the GS is that it's an "Adventure" style bike, which means it is styled to ape an off-roader (like our NCs, in fact).  Yes, I know you can take the GS off-road, but how many of us do that, honestly?

 

For me the RS is a far more honest bike.  It doesn't ape anything - its form follows its intended function almost perfectly.  The only niggle is my perennial one: why can't anybody apart from Royal Enfield fit mudguards that actually work?  The one on the front of the RS is vestigial and clearly useless, and it doesn't seem to have one on the back at all.

 

Apart from that ridiculous nod to the styling "imperatives", I think it's a superb bike and I'd love one if I could afford it.

 

Thanks Steve.  I agree about the mudguards, and had the same issue with the GS.  I will probably fit a fender extender to the front of the RS like I did on the GS, though I have found that someone makes a complete but longer mudguard for the RS to do the same thing a little more elegantly - albeit rather more expensively! It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to do something at the back and there are various products available, but I am first going to see if I can fit the tool tubes I took off the GS inside the pannier mounts on the RS, and if so that may do an adequate job of blocking the crud.

 

Edited by fred_jb

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Rocker66

Good news Ken and wishing you and your good lady a healthy future.

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Trev

Fred, thanks for the interesting and informative info and experience of active suspension (and other gadgets). A very good friend of mine has just traded his 2015 XR1000 BM (the semi adventure four thing?) for a 2018 ex-demo with one of the main reasons he cites being the improved ESA,  auto blipper and leaning ABS and reckons there is a significant improvement. He keeps trying to persuade me that I need such things in my life but I've told him when he eschews half baked 'auto' clutch gear changing for DCT then perhaps I'll worry about leaning ABS and needing to programme the bike before I set off :whistle:

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SteveThackery
5 hours ago, Woody 99 said:

After taking a lesson on the GS 700 and stalling it 43 times in 90 minutes I decided to buy a DCT and I’ve never looked back.

 

Am I right in thinking it's essentially the same bike as my F800?  If so, then I agree with you about the stalling - it's a bloody nuisance and there's definitely something weird about it.  It's almost as if something deliberately cuts the engine once it gets below a certain rpm.  

 

1st gear is too high - with a torque curve that flat they could easily have spaced the gears a bit more widely and made it much easier to use.  But it's not just about the gearing - I think it definitely has something to do with the engine ECU as well.  Quite a few Japanese sports bikes have a really high first gear, but none of them have such a reputation for stalling as the BMW.

 

With practice it is possible to avoid it - plenty of revs and very careful feeding out of the clutch when taking off - but I don't think it should be necessary.  I'd love to get to the bottom of it.

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