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It's official - I'm getting a BMW R1250RS!

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baben
1 hour ago, Andy m said:

 

What's the PCP issue? Build up of 18 month old bikes depressing the market to the point you end up with no bike and a bill for what you'll already had if you want to swap? 

 

Roughly that. When I took mine out as per bloke in letter, salesman said the value of the bike at three years would be far in excess of the final payment so I would have a good start for a deposit on the next one. Now the chap in the letter says he's getting the teeth sucking routine and it will barely cover the final payment. Also there are no cheap pcp deals on the bike he wants. It worked out cheaper for him to get a bank loan. I paid my PCP off early and saved a lump of interest and I don't think I would take out another. I reckon even on a crap PX I would get enough to make finance fairly painless. Anyway, in one or two years time when I come to change they will all have gone to the wall and BMWs will cost 20% more cos of the B word. I will either get another Triumph or something Japanese. I mean the Japanese are practically English aren't they - live on an island with an unpredictable climate with far too many Americans on it and a mind boggling sense of humour and cuisine.

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Ciaran1602
4 minutes ago, baben said:

Roughly that. When I took mine out as per bloke in letter, salesman said the value of the bike at three years would be far in excess of the final payment so I would have a good start for a deposit on the next one. Now the chap in the letter says he's getting the teeth sucking routine and it will barely cover the final payment. Also there are no cheap pcp deals on the bike he wants. It worked out cheaper for him to get a bank loan. I paid my PCP off early and saved a lump of interest and I don't think I would take out another. I reckon even on a crap PX I would get enough to make finance fairly painless. Anyway, in one or two years time when I come to change they will all have gone to the wall and BMWs will cost 20% more cos of the B word. I will either get another Triumph or something Japanese. I mean the Japanese are practically English aren't they - live on an island with an unpredictable climate with far too many Americans on it and a mind boggling sense of humour and cuisine.

 

The only reason I got a PCP is cause Old man Hondasan happened to be offering 0% finance on the NC series at the time. The only bikes that get that privilege now are the over £10k models and I have no need for it. 

 

Im seriously thinking if I can borrow the funds from a family member or something I’ll simply pay off the PCP and keep Haru. Beyond a little rust on the forks which I can probably cure with some chrome polish and liberal ACF50 coating, it’s got a hundred k left in the engine. It’s not even done 2000 miles in a 17 plate. Might as well just keep it rather than let the lizards suck me into another pcp. 

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Trev
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

Might as well just keep it rather than let the lizards suck me into another pcp. 

 

Dangerous talk there C, that's how I've ended up with eight bikes .... apart from the PCP bit. I can rent you a few bike stoarage spaces in my lockup at a (un) reasonable price :D

Edited by Trev
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Ciaran1602
1 minute ago, Trev said:

 

Dangerous talk there C, that's how I've ended up with eight bikes .... apart from the PCP bit. I can rent you a few bike stoarage spaces in my lockup at a (un) reasonable price :D

 

Of course, within about 15 minutes of saying all this I found myself looking at the F800GT. Need to be restrained after buying a new 4 wheeler though :angel:

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Tonyj

This is not a knock Fred btw , just seen a YouTube vid and the fella does long distance.” Teapotontime” . He got to use the new gsa shift cam . He was raving about it ... 

got all the way to south wales and doing a time check at 4am talking all the time to camera. Presses the button nothing , bumps it and the electrics just got into zombie mode and shut down one by one . What a disaster. Gets trailered all the way back to coopers from Wales . 

The only reason I’m writing this is I’ve just watched it . He was gutted because he obviously likes a BM and so would I be if I’d just dropped 20k and it broke , turns out battery was shagged , dodgy cell made it conk out

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SteveThackery
43 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

 

Of course, within about 15 minutes of saying all this I found myself looking at the F800GT. Need to be restrained after buying a new 4 wheeler though :angel:

 

No, no, don't be restrained!  I got one and I love it.  Second hand, of course.  Mine, a year old with 5k on the clock and absolutely mint, cost a couple of hundred quid more than a new NC, but in every regard it knocks the NC into a cocked hat.  

 

The only thing I don't like is the ease of stalling, along with the crap engine sound due to it being a 360 degree parallel twin (but plenty of people seem willing to live with that - it's the same sound as the boxer).  Build quality, finish, engineering excellence, ride and handling - all are wonderful.

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fred_jb
37 minutes ago, Tonyj said:

This is not a knock Fred btw , just seen a YouTube vid and the fella does long distance.” Teapotontime” . He got to use the new gsa shift cam . He was raving about it ... 

got all the way to south wales and doing a time check at 4am talking all the time to camera. Presses the button nothing , bumps it and the electrics just got into zombie mode and shut down one by one . What a disaster. Gets trailered all the way back to coopers from Wales . 

The only reason I’m writing this is I’ve just watched it . He was gutted because he obviously likes a BM and so would I be if I’d just dropped 20k and it broke , turns out battery was shagged , dodgy cell made it conk out

Yes, funnily enough I've just watched the same video.  I suppose a dead cell in new battery is not something you can totally blame on BMW, unless they are buying poor quality stuff to save money, though I think I remember reading about another similar case.

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Ciaran1602
1 minute ago, SteveThackery said:

 

No, no, don't be restrained!  I got one and I love it.  Second hand, of course.  Mine, a year old with 5k on the clock and absolutely mint, cost a couple of hundred quid more than a new NC, but in every regard it knocks the NC into a cocked hat.  

 

The only thing I don't like is the ease of stalling, along with the crap engine sound due to it being a 360 degree parallel twin (but plenty of people seem willing to live with that - it's the same sound as the boxer).  Build quality, finish, engineering excellence, ride and handling - all are wonderful.

 

Financially I'm not really in a position to change yet besides the NC only just breaks even on it's finance at the moment. I'm due a healthy bonus December this year which may, or may not, make things more palatable.:angel:

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Tonyj
26 minutes ago, fred_jb said:

Yes, funnily enough I've just watched the same video.  I suppose a dead cell in new battery is not something you can totally blame on BMW, unless they are buying poor quality stuff to save money, though I think I remember reading about another similar case.

 

Yes fred I wouldn’t hold to much in it undertakers die doctors get ill . It was on as I read the posts . You would be fuming though if it was a paid for bike not a demo . Trip done for etc . This can happen on any bike . My friends new super duke has had a new Ecu . Parts of a loom ,new ignition module ,new headlight . Still needs another . Warning lights every time he rides it . Bloody thing is an electrical drama queen . Mine nothing , not been an issue at all and his was all before the 600 mile servic :0) at one point we could turn it off ... madness all this electric gubbins.

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fred_jb

I suppose the electric gubbins do have benefits, but only while they keep working.  There was nothing like that on my CX500 but it took two of us, plus loads of luggage, because we were mainly camping, all around Europe without missing a beat.  They only thing approaching a problem was when I started noticing a power loss - but then I realised I had gained some serious altitude in the mountains, and the carbs would have been jetted for sea level running!  I guess a fuel injection system would have avoided that problem, at least as long as its MAF (mass air flow) sensor kept working!

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embee
1 hour ago, fred_jb said:

.....I started noticing a power loss - but then I realised I had gained some serious altitude in the mountains, …..

As a rough guide you'll lose around 1% power for every 100m altitude, the jetting isn't really the culprit, it's the reduced air density. Less air = less power.

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fred_jb
1 minute ago, embee said:

As a rough guide you'll lose around 1% power for every 100m altitude, the jetting isn't really the culprit, it's the reduced air density. Less air = less power.

Yes I agree, even with appropriate jetting to maintain a correct fuel air ratio, the max power will be down due to the reduced air density, though the bike might run more cleanly.

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Woody 99
7 hours ago, fred_jb said:

Yes, funnily enough I've just watched the same video.  I suppose a dead cell in new battery is not something you can totally blame on BMW, 

Oh, go on, yes you can. If not, at least blame Harley. 

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Andy m

What sort of battery are they? 

 

If a £12000 machine, sold on its wondrous technology comes with a Chinese lead acid battery I think you have reason to complain. With a cheap Chinese bike you not only expect the cheap battery, but know the basic FI will run once you've got enough power from bumping or jumping to turn the pump*. When the CANbus (which is no advantage to the user only the manufacturer) prevents this, they should provide a more modern battery. 

 

* The trick to bumping FI bikes in my experience is a long run and pressing the starter button. Push it up a hill, get it in third and roll forward on the clutch. When you have enough speed drop the clutch and push the starter button. The combination of alternator power, the cut off relay and ECU signalled to start seems to have the desired effect most often. 

 

Andy

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Trev
1 hour ago, Andy m said:

 

* The trick to bumping FI bikes in my experience is a long run and pressing the starter button. Push it up a hill, get it in third and roll forward on the clutch. When you have enough speed drop the clutch and push the starter button. The combination of alternator power, the cut off relay and ECU signalled to start seems to have the desired effect most often. 

 

Andy

 

 ...... or you could just use the kickstart.

 

Smug Enfield Owner (there I knew there would be one advantage :D)

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macamx

On the subject of PcP's I think they are going to be problematic in the not too distant future, funnily enough in the car trade and for dealers initially. The problem for them is going to be the now "demonised" diesel coming back with the potential customer base vastly reduced. I think you have to view these agreements as purely hire agreements with no or little equity at conclusion. They can however be things of wonder, when I bought "Ting Tong" last year Triumph finance were offering £500 deposit contribution if you took their PcP or hire purchase. This I did with glee then paid it off in full the day after I collected the bike. Total interest charge for the day was about £3. Result.

 

Geoff.

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Mr Toad
21 hours ago, fred_jb said:

I generally follow Tex's example with cars and buy nearly new.   I bought our Zafira Tourer at 6 months old and 5000 miles after it had been a manager's car at the dealer.   It had a high spec and lots of options making the list price over £26k, but I got it for just under £17k and have been very pleased with it.  The problem is that to me bikes are different somehow - the car is more of a utilitarian, almost distress purchase, as it is for many people, and the bike is a fun thing which I want to be as perfect as possible, and I know some non-rider petrolheads have the same attitude to their cars and will buy high spec vehicles and then lavish mods and enhancements on them.   Unfortunately, the mainly male impulse to do this sort of thing with our toys is ruthlessly exploited by the manufacturers!

 

Interesting rationale but how long does that brand new just perfect feeling last?  Is it over after the first time on the road or after a week, a month?

 

On the other hand if you feel it's something you can maintain as long as you have the bike then haven't you just destroyed your own argument? If the GS you just sold is as perfect as possible then someone like me is going to get a fantastic deal and still get that perfect bike feeling for a lot less money.

 

I make no judgement here Fred, we are all different in what gives us pleasure. I'm genuinely interested as someone who likes nice things but doesn't get attached to them in the way some people do and I don't get any sort of buzz from being the first owner. 

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Trev

I wondered what the heck you were on about with 'Ting Tong' :D

 

Yup I did the same with both my Daughters's VW Polo and wifes Beetle convertible. As the Polo holds it value so well it actually worked out cheaper getting a brand new one than a 6 - 12 month old one  from a VW dealer which I was going to go for. By signing up to PCP I got a £500 deposit contribution, one years insurance (worth nearly £500 for a 22 year old), 30,000 miles /3 year service plan and a Parrot Bluetooth kit (as VW are so skimpy on kit the 2013 Polo Match didn't have Bluetooth!).  I also got a halfway decent discount as we went for the very slightly less insurance friendly 70 PS version but that was nothing to do with PCP. I was told I had to run the PCP for one month before canceling which, as I had put the maximum deposit down anyway, only cost me about a £7.

 

With my wife's car I was always going to go brand new as it was a birthday pressie and going to be a keeper but the dealer there (I switched as the first lot were painful come service time and didn't seem to understand that I wanted a brand new car  to my spec and kept trying to sell me what they had their forecourt) was even more helpful and pointed out I could cancel the PCP arrangement just before collecting the car, pay in full and still keep the PCP benefits (£1000 deposit contribution, 3 year service plan and again free insurance, this time only worth £200). 

 

I'm with you though, PCP as means of 'owning' a vehicle is deepely flawed and not for me - apart from these nice deals of course :whistle:

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Trev
2 minutes ago, Mr Toad said:

 

Interesting rationale but how long does that brand new just perfect feeling last?  Is it over after the first time on the road or after a week, a month?

 

On the other hand if you feel it's something you can maintain as long as you have the bike then haven't you just destroyed your own argument? If the GS you just sold is as perfect as possible then someone like me is going to get a fantastic deal and still get that perfect bike feeling for a lot less money.

 

I make no judgement here Fred, we are all different in what gives us pleasure. I'm genuinely interested as someone who likes nice things but doesn't get attached to them in the way some people do and I don't get any sort of buzz from being the first owner. 

 

Interesting Mason, I'm the opposite in that I actually hate to see something immaculate deteriorate and just know that my lack of cleaning commitment and desire to use something will result in that. This, and just being too tight to see all that deprecatioan and tax go up in smoke,  are the main reasons I've never bought myself a brand new car or bike and probably never will. I have been able to choose my own company cars for a quite a while now so I do sort of get the pleasure of new car ownership (and the fun of choosing the spec I want) but as I never feel they're mine then, although I look after them, I don't fret at the little marks, wear and deterioration.I think it's also laregly kept me away from the 'look what I can afford, keeping up with the Jone's' mentality although that may not be a good thing as it's resulted in me pottering about on ten year old Enfields and Guzzi's:D

 

In all seriousness, perhaps that's an arguement for me to go the PCP route, I cetainly would not feel it would be my bike as I'm only 'hiring' it so it would may minimise my concern at seeing something I own deteriorate and the odd clean and ACF and I can just give it back when finished borrowing it from the dealer. 

 

Right, that's enough thinking for today, I'm off to drain the heating system down and fit shiny (brand new but not PCP funded) radiator valves.

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Ciaran1602

PCP is one of those things that I think can be massively advantageous if you do it right and get lucky. I’ve never got a car on PCP that didn’t have a healthy discount applied specifically because it was finance (in my latest case, Vauxhall we’re adding in a £3,400 contribution to the Astra as long as it was on PCP). Frankly I couldn’t afford to buy a car outright if I wanted to so if I’m going to pay monthly I’d rather pay for something with a brand new warranty and is reliable. Plus I got a substantially reduced interest going new against used. 

 

I tend to view PCP as an ‘purchase option lease’. I know that in a situation with poor equity I can just dump the car on a dealers forecourt at the end or get the finance company to pick it up; as long as you take good care of the car and photo evidence everything to ensure they can’t stuff you for little chips and dents. I’ve always been taught to lease a depreciating asset but a pcp gives me the chance to buy it off if I really love it. Just have to be careful of the interest rates!

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Trev

Ciaran, shouldn't you be sat at your desk earning your beloeved employer a nice profit? :whistle:

 

Of course your exactly right, PCP, like all other options for buying 'stuff' is fine as long as the user goes into it with open eyes and clear reasoning behind their decision. As an example, after talling anyone who can be bothered to listen (not many fortunately) that I would never buy a brand new car or bike I actually 'persuaded' no. 1 daughter to do so a few years back as a form of 'savings policy'! She is one of those young people who, although she works very hard, has absolutely no problem spending every penny she earns, mostly on throw away fashion items - at least in the view of this old, unfashionable git :ermm:

My reasoning was that if the 'Bank of Dad' leant her the cash for a brand new car, one with decently low depreciation, she would at least be spending a chunk of her hard earned on something that would be worth a few grand in three year times rather than going in bin bags to the charity shop. It sort of worked as, after three years of service, MOT and repair cost free motoring, just after she finished paying me off, she was given a company car and sold the Polo (to the 'Car Dealership of Dad' to sell on, interest free to Daughter no. 2 :cry:)  and used the cash to add to her deposit for her first house.

 

As I type this I am beginning to realise why I cant afford a new car ...... :bye:

 

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Ciaran1602
4 minutes ago, Trev said:

Ciaran, shouldn't you be sat at your desk earning your beloeved employer a nice profit? :whistle:

 

Of course your exactly right, PCP, like all other options for buying 'stuff' is fine as long as the user goes into it with open eyes and clear reasoning behind their decision. As an example, after talling anyone who can be bothered to listen (not many fortunately) that I would never buy a brand new car or bike I actually 'persuaded' no. 1 daughter to do so a few years back as a form of 'savings policy'! She is one of those young people who, although she works very hard, has absolutely no problem spending every penny she earns, mostly on throw away fashion items - at least in the view of this old, unfashionable git :ermm:

My reasoning was that if the 'Bank of Dad' leant her the cash for a brand new car, one with decently low depreciation, she would at least be spending a chunk of her hard earned on something that would be worth a few grand in three year times rather than going in bin bags to the charity shop. It sort of worked as, after three years of service, MOT and repair cost free motoring, just after she finished paying me off, she was given a company car and sold the Polo (to the 'Car Dealership of Dad' to sell on, interest free to Daughter no. 2 :cry:)  and used the cash to add to her deposit for her first house.

 

As I type this I am beginning to realise why I cant afford a new car ...... :bye:

 

 

As my other half is fond of telling me (and I’m paraphrasing for delicacy) ‘being the persuasion we are gives us some lady like skills, one of them being multitasking’ :ahappy:

 

I think the common denominator there is kids. Expensive things at the best of times!

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Exceledsteve
23 minutes ago, Trev said:

 

My reasoning was that if the 'Bank of Dad' leant her the cash for a brand new car, one with decently low depreciation, she would at least be spending a chunk of her hard earned on something that would be worth a few grand in three year times rather than going in bin bags to the charity shop. It sort of worked as, after three years of service, MOT and repair cost free motoring, just after she finished paying me off, she was given a company car and sold the Polo (to the 'Car Dealership of Dad' to sell on, interest free to Daughter no. 2 :cry:)  and used the cash to add to her deposit for her first house.

 

Is it true that kids actually pay back loaned money?? I'm off to have a word with mine...

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Tex
17 minutes ago, Exceledsteve said:

Is it true that kids actually pay back loaned money?? I'm off to have a word with mine...

 

No, it’s never happened with any of mine! :D 

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Trev
2 hours ago, Exceledsteve said:

Is it true that kids actually pay back loaned money?? I'm off to have a word with mine...

 

I didn't say all of it ...... and of course the house meant another 'Bank of Dad' loan to help with the deposit, and that one ain't coming back :ermm:

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