Engine oil

[Mike5100 2,061]

You make a good point Ronecc, but if the Motoman's theories are right (change the oil after 30 miles because that's when most wear has happened), I can't see any manufacturer being brave enough to be the only ones to put that in their user manuals.  

Mike

[Guest Whiteyez]

From service manual:

 

[Guest EasyTiger]

On that auction site Shell Advance 4T AX7 10w40 Semi Synthetic Motorcycle Engine Oil - 4L Litre is currently £22.99, free P&P.

Edited September 15, 2014 by EasyTiger

[Guest hpb]

When I did my 1000km service the other day, I used Penrite Everday 5w30 full synthetic. It's an Australian brand, so probably not available in the UK? It's SL rated and JASO MA2, so good for wet clutch and cat convertors. I paid $58 for 6 litres, versus $66 for 4 litres of the Honda HP4 stuff. Have only ridden 50km since the service, and honestly I can't notice any difference whatsoever. 

[usabikes 440]

When I did my 1000km service the other day, I used Penrite Everday 5w30 full synthetic. It's an Australian brand, so probably not available in the UK? It's SL rated and JASO MA2, so good for wet clutch and cat convertors. I paid $58 for 6 litres, versus $66 for 4 litres of the Honda HP4 stuff. Have only ridden 50km since the service, and honestly I can't notice any difference whatsoever. 

 

I think I read years ago that it takes at least a 5HP change for most riders to feel a difference in power so maybe its not surprising we'd feel nothing changing to a better oil. Probably not even any improvement in smoothness, maybe gearchanges though. Penrite make some good stuff now, their full synthetics that are labelled "Ester/PAO" are really top line and well priced.

[Guest hpb]

Yes I thought the gearchange felt a little smoother, but I'm well aware it's probably 99% in my mind! I like Penrite too, and the nice thing is, this oil meets all the specs for my car as well, so that simplifies things, and lowers the number of oil containers cluttering my shed...

[trisaki 2,029]

haven't actually read the oil specs on the nc , normally use a good 10w40 semi synth in my wshop  for just about anything these days, , Honda never use to recommend full synth in any of their bikes unless you were track daying or racing , for the road they use to specify semi

[Scootabout 2,248]

I'm no expert, but the 8k service interval intrigues me. On the one hand you could say this indicates that the engine isn't going to knacker the oil much - because such a long interval is specified - and therefore no point in putting a special oil in. OTOH you could say that if the oil's in there for so many miles you need something that won't wear out much. My guess is, being a low-revving, low performance engine it's fairly gentle on oil, so no need to worry, provided you've put the right spec in. I guess if used it exclusively in heavy city centre traffic, things might be different. Then you might consider an earlier oil change.

[embee 7,288]

The rev range and the specific output are largely irrelevant regarding the oil life. It depends on the detail design of the components.

 

Contact pressures and shear rates depend entirely on the design of the relevant components relative to the loads they are carrying, for example cam/follower design contact stresses (i.e. the normal stress seen by the oil film) are usually limited using a more or less empirical threshold values for a given material pair, whether it's chilled iron, induction hardened steel or whatever. The highest contact stresses seen in power units are between cams and followers and between transmission gear teeth. The physical size of the gears is determined by the permissable contact stress, thus a result of number of teeth, gear diameter and width, and torque transmitted. A big engine with big gears might result in lower stresses than a small engine with small gears.

 

From my experience, Japanese manufacturers tend to be fairly conservative with design limits.

[Guest Hati]

What are you using in your Integra Murray?

[embee 7,288]

It's entirely a personal thing but I use Castrol Power1 semi-synth in my bikes, either 10W30 or 10W40 depending on what it calls for. I've only done one oil change on the Integra (bought at 2k miles, changed it at about 4k and now at nearly 9k so will do another change soon). I used the 10W30 but might use a mix of 10W30 and 10W40 next time (since I have both in stock), I find it gets a bit noisy at idle when hot, I'm sure it's fine and they're all like that, but it just niggles a bit so I'll try a halfway mix and see how it sounds.

 

I've used it for many years (used to be called GPS) and always been happy with the life, the condition of the engines and the way the clutches behave, but I'm sure plenty of oils will also give good results.

 

I use Mobil1 synth 0W40 oil in my car with very satisfactory results, it's done 80k miles and never uses a drop between services (Toyota Yaris).

[Guest Hati]

Right. I'm getting close to the 1000 Km oil change so while doing my research on oils, came across this on another forum in response to a post talking about oil grades and ambient temperatures: 

 

 

Oil viscosity ratings are not temperatures!

The 10W is to do with the ability of the oil to flow and therefore lubricate at low temperatures, so you are somewhat correct with that part. 



The 40 has absolutely no correlation with temperature. This is an SAE grade (SAE 40) and is a rating of the oil viscosity at 100 degrees C (near typical running temperature). This means its viscosity at 100.0 degrees C is somewhere between 12.50 and 16.29 centistokes. Which is just a measurement of how quickly the oil flows through a small tube. 



I don't necessarily agree with putting a 10W-40 in an engine with a manufacturer recommendation of 10W-30. This assumes the running temperature is higher than the manufacturer expected, however with thermostats and decent cooling systems the running temp in Australia (except on rare days) is not normally any higher than anywhere else. 



The manufacturer will recommend a viscosity based on engine tolerances and nuances, so it is important to use the correct viscosity. In saying that, I don't think using 10W-40 instead of 10W-30 would cause damage.

 

This is written by a chemist who works for an oil testing laboratory. I, like many others, believed that the numbers in oil grades mean temperatures. There you have if from a professional.

[embee 7,288]

Well yes, the numbers are not temperatures per se, but as he says they do relate to oil properties at different temperatures. The W number is at zero F (-18C), i.e. a good reference value for a winter cold start, and the upper number is at 210F (almost 100C), i.e. more or less engine operating temperature, SAE is an American system so uses Fahrenheit scale values.

 

There are numerous explanations of oil grades online, much better explanations than I can give briefly, this is quite a good concise one http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm

 

Just to confuse issues, the units used at the 2 different conditions are different. The cold number range uses cent-Poise units (c-P = absolute or dynamic viscosity) and the high temp range uses centi-Stokes (c-St = kinematic viscosity), the actual values for an oil fit into ranges which are the different grades, so be aware that one 5W oil can be only a fraction different to another 10W if they sit just each side of a range division.

 

In real life the important issue is to have a low W number to improve cold start performance, and it's usually perfectly OK (desirable even) to use a smaller "W" value than might be in the handbook, this will pump more easily when cold.

Use basically the recommended high temp range for your engine.

 

Thus if the handbook recommends a 10W30 it's no problem to use a 5W30, it'll pump better when cold and be essentially the same at 100C. Engineering the oil to achieve less viscosity change with temperature (called "viscosity index" or VI), which is desirable, isn't always that easy, but modern synthetics can achieve much higher VI values than straight mineral oils for example. Also be aware that a 5W40 will be slightly thicker than a 10W40 at temps above 100C because of the VI, so will possibly offer a bit more protection to overheat conditions.

 

If the handbook shows overlapping ranges for certain ambients, say 10W30 and 10W40 at 10-25C, it'll usually be fine to use either or a similar oil covering the range, like 0W40 for example. The lower viscosities will generally give better fuel economy and pump better and as a rule of thumb it's a good idea to use as low a viscosity as the engine is happy with, but there is scope to vary this if desired, for example if the engine is a bit rattly at idle try a 40 rather than a 30 if it annoys you, alternatively ignore it. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by embee

[Guest Hati]

So what is the best protection for the NC engine? Is it worth the extra coin to go synthetic or settle with a semi or non synthetic? I plan to keep my Integra for many years (possibly as much as 10) so to me longevity is more important than oil cost.

[embee 7,288]

Well known branded semi-synth will be fine, it'll have all the additives (anti-wear, anti-corrosion, anti-acid etc) the engine needs and if changed at decent intervals will last plenty long enough. Don't worry to much about it.

[Tex 36,817]

Well known branded semi-synth will be fine, it'll have all the additives (anti-wear, anti-corrosion, anti-acid etc) the engine needs and if changed at decent intervals will last plenty long enough. Don't worry to much about it.

Here here!

Edited October 7, 2014 by Tex

[Rev Ken 6,331]

Strangely I use the oil recommended by the manufacturer, or its equivalent in other brands......

[Longtimerider 133]

I was once warned off using fully synthetic oil on bikes with wet clutches as it caused clutch slip. Don't know if this is current advice now or not. Anyone heard of this for modern bikes? Do dct clutches work the same as on conventional engines?

Regards,

Longtimerider.

[Guest Hati]

I was once warned off using fully synthetic oil on bikes with wet clutches as it caused clutch slip. Don't know if this is current advice now or not. Anyone heard of this for modern bikes? Do dct clutches work the same as on conventional engines?

Regards,

Longtimerider.

 

I remember the warnings about clutch slip, not so much these days. Having said that go by what your manual recommends or your bike shop uses. Going by the DCT publications by Honda, the clutches work the same as traditional ones, yes.

[embee 7,288]

It's nothing to do with whether it's mineral, semi-synth or fully synth, it's more to do with the friction modifers it contains. Generally speaking avoid anything described as "energy conserving" or similar.

 

The safest way to avoid having any clutch slip issues is to use an oil which has passed the relevant tests to show it is compatible with wet clutch use. That test is referred to as JASO-MA and it will show on the can whether it has been tested to this spec.

[roddy 845]

Can someone advise on how to check the oil level? thanks

[usabikes 440]

Gareth, run the bike for a few minutes (take it out for a 15 minute run). Park it up for 3 minutes, remove and wipe clean the dipstick with a clean rag. Insert dipstick - but don't thread it in at all - while straddling bike & keeping bike vertical. Read level. I've read that checking on the main stand, if fitted, gives the same reading but my level reads higher that way.

 

HTH sport!

[roddy 845]

Thanks, Graeme.

[Guest Southerner]

I find that be the engine cold or warm, the reading's the same.

 

I'd be interested to know the amount of oil required to take it from min to max on the dipstick. Can't see that in the book anywhere.  

[shiggsy 529]

I find that be the engine cold or warm, the reading's the same.

 

Yep, i normally check after parking it up at home and getting out of my bike gear first to give it some drain time, but I have no problems checking it cold. I have always found it a bit of a weird instruction that to check the engine oil you first have to run the engine. Only time I find that to be a necessary requirement is right after an oil change.