1st Annual Service..Par for the course?

[Mark8arker 527]

21 hours ago, alhendo1 said:

I asked a couple of questions regarding servicing when I had my NC750x...here are the responses via email from Honda Customer Service. ..I have retained the emails for reference...

 

"What we can provide is a general guidance as shown in the Owner’s manual of the models. Please find attached pictures in this e-mail. According to this information, each routine service should be done every 12 months or 8000 miles (whichever comes first).

 

Also, when it comes to servicing the vehicle, naturally we would always recommend the expertise of our authorised Honda dealers. That way we can guarantee that the service provided is up to Honda approved standards, all replacement parts will be Honda genuine ones and that the vehicle will be taken care of in the best way possible.

 

However, this is not a mandatory approach that you can take. If you decide to go with an alternative dealership, you might want to consider the following things:

 

·   To keep records of all the receipts/invoices and documentation given at each service

 

·   To make sure that all parts used, are Honda genuine ones

 

·   To work with trained technicians, who are familiar with the Honda service standards

 

·   Should an issue occur as a result of any service/repair done by an independent garage, the part/unit/system affected will invalidate the warranty on that same component."

 

 

I asked how long past your service date mileage you can go without invalidating the warranty...after a bit of faff I received this...

 

"As advised we would not have an official grace period that will be listed in your documentation, however anything up to 500 miles and 2 months would be deemed as acceptable in terms of maintenance by our technical consultants."

I'm about to find out. My girlfriend bought a Honda CB650F. They didn't get on. Only done 2k in three years. Missed 2 services. I took the bike for first services. The rest is personal politics why the others didnt get done. Handing it back early. Will reply once its returned!

[alhendo1 3,045]

19 minutes ago, Mark8arker said:

I'm about to find out. My girlfriend bought a Honda CB650F. They didn't get on. Only done 2k in three years. Missed 2 services. I took the bike for first services. The rest is personal politics why the others didnt get done. Handing it back early. Will reply once its returned!

Is this regards to a pcp?.....if so that'll be interesting to see what they do....if not a pcp it's out of warranty anyway being 3 years old...keep us posted....

[ChrisCB 6,672]

Regarding VW group, the cars are not particularly owner friendly when it comes to servicing, even changing the oil and filter, but if you do then get parts and oil with receipts for everything, if there is a warranty claim on a failure and it's a direct result of your servicing they will reject it. An example is the 2.0 TFSI oil burning issue, I have seen claims rejected after oil analysis proved the owner used the wrong oil and no service history but claims paid where customers used independents with full documentation. I've just changed my Leon which is on PCP and serviced myself, all receipts for parts in the service book, they didn't question it.

[alhendo1 3,045]

This is now drifting into cars which seem to be different to bikes....my wife had an Evoque on lease....t&cs stated it could be serviced at a vat registered independent using equivalent or oe parts....no issues when handed back.....her current Audi Q5 is draconian in its requirements....must be an Audi main dealer or Audi Independant...no ifs buts or maybes.....it's all in the ts and cs.

My take on the annual service is probably somewhere in the schedule it states that they'll inspect the brakes,lube, inspect , adjust cables....blah blah....whether they actually will or not is another story....good luck if you've got a main dealer that will do that.....it's more of a safety thing that in my opinion....if they did everything on the schedule it may make the ridiculous costs more palatable. ....my 8k(8600)mile service is due soon and I'm swithering whether to take it to an independant and try and argue my case if anything did go wrong....I know I don't particularly want to use my local main dealer as twice they've managed to adjust my chain far too tight....shocking incompetence....

Edited April 11, 2019 by alhendo1

[Andywills77 433]

33 minutes ago, Chris750 said:

Regarding VW group, the cars are not particularly owner friendly when it comes to servicing, even changing the oil and filter, but if you do then get parts and oil with receipts for everything, if there is a warranty claim on a failure and it's a direct result of your servicing they will reject it. An example is the 2.0 TFSI oil burning issue, I have seen claims rejected after oil analysis proved the owner used the wrong oil and no service history but claims paid where customers used independents with full documentation. I've just changed my Leon which is on PCP and serviced myself, all receipts for parts in the service book, they didn't question it.

You're not kidding. I've got the Leon 1.4 TSI fr and it's got 2 timing belts.

 

I read the t&cs on the vag PCP...no thanks (got a loan and paid it off 2 years early instead. I was in a position to do this, others might not be, I.e the advanrages of PCP)...what they've done with a 1.4 (and the 1.2 petrols) is cracking engineering (ignoring the dodgy mot a thing)

 

I'm interested in what the honda take on it is though. PCP has its advantages and disadvantages. I'm not knocking it by a long shot...it just wasn't right for me. My experience is limited to the vag (I didn't particularly like the 2.5 hours in a greenhouse they call a show room. It felt very much like a we know it's hot and your fed up, so sign the form and you can go home thing)

[Hickky 3,131]

 

Quote

6 hours ago, Walklikegump said:

If I go by  the 500 mile 2 month quote then considering in ten months I have done 1000 miles. My next delayed service will be at 1400 miles.....  Ouch . That's a alot per mile.

The only way to improve the figures is to actually ride the damn bike. Who is the furthest member from Leicester who has a Coffee machine?   I'm coming for a cuppa. 

 

 

Canvey Island, by the beach. Full Nestpresso coffee machine with milk dispenser/frother and 3 different types of coffee.  Filter or  cafetiere options too. Two styles of instant, plus green, peppermint, chai, teas as well as Thompsons special everyday tea. Add sugar (demerera and white) and milk or cream to taste. (some women are fussy) FOC to forum members. 

[Steveb2418 625]

When I bought my 2014 750x just under three years ago from a main dealership , the salesman , who has a degree in motorcycle engineering , took me aside saying " If you do a moderate mileage it's fine to extend the stated service intervals ". It was obvious that was for my ears only ,. and  I guess that  I look like a man of somewhat moderate means  :-).  

[Tex 36,817]

 

13 minutes ago, Steveb2418 said:

It was obvious that was for my ears only ,. and  I guess that  I look like a man of somewhat moderate means  :-).  

 

No, you’re OK Steve, all NC buyers are tight with money. Until they start on the farkles..  

[Andywills77 433]

I prefer the term frugal 😀

[Mr Toad 9,022]

On 4/10/2019 at 09:52, Rosewellian said:

£230... With a labour rate of £80ph is what my main dealer charging par for the course. 

 

Never trust a dealer that adds an extra 1p to the labour cost, they are definitely on the take!

 

I'm another that does my own servicing as I like it done right.

[Mr Toad 9,022]

On 4/10/2019 at 17:58, riders in the storm said:

That is an expensive way of keeping the warranty watertight intact.  Mine will be home serviced including the 600 mile service and I will just have to take my chances with the warranty.

 

For reference, a local VW dealer did the first service on our Audi A3 for £99 using genuine VAG parts, at that price it was worth it to keep the warranty, and a local Fiat dealer did the first service on my Camper for £99, (got me over a barrel, it needs special software to reset the oil degradation counter).

 

£230 for a bike oil change is more than I would pay, but fully appreciate we all make our own choices.....  

 

Regarding the oil degradation counter on the Fiat. Have a look at MultiECUscan, it's free for diagnostics but paid for if you want to alter or reset stuff. 

 

https://www.multiecuscan.net/

 

I used it on my Fiat Qubo to trace and fix an auto gearbox problem. Just reading the error codes was enough to tell me what part to change, however, I did purchase a license which cost 50 euros so I can reset the service indicator on the dash. I already had an OBDII cable for the Bonneville but it didn't work.

 

In a bid to protect their dealer diagnostic and service pricing Fiat made wiring changes to the standard OBDII interface so you need a 'special' cable to deter the home mechanic. You can get a set of four colour coded cables from fleabay for about £12, different colours for the different ECUs in the car, Dash, engine, gearbox etc. depending on what you're playing with.

 

 

[riders in the storm 475]

7 hours ago, Mr Toad said:

 

Regarding the oil degradation counter on the Fiat. Have a look at MultiECUscan, it's free for diagnostics but paid for if you want to alter or reset stuff. 

 

https://www.multiecuscan.net/

 

I used it on my Fiat Qubo to trace and fix an auto gearbox problem. Just reading the error codes was enough to tell me what part to change, however, I did purchase a license which cost 50 euros so I can reset the service indicator on the dash. I already had an OBDII cable for the Bonneville but it didn't work.

 

In a bid to protect their dealer diagnostic and service pricing Fiat made wiring changes to the standard OBDII interface so you need a 'special' cable to deter the home mechanic. You can get a set of four colour coded cables from fleabay for about £12, different colours for the different ECUs in the car, Dash, engine, gearbox etc. depending on what you're playing with.

 

 

 

Yes, thankyou, I have looked at these kits, there is a link on the Ducato Forum. The software plus connectors is priced around £100 give or take and it describes needing a Windows laptop which I don't have. ( I have a desktop, a Chromebook & an android phone). The Fiat approved oil (6 litres) plus a genuine Fiat oil filter would cost me around £60, and after begging and pestering my Fiat Dealer till they were bored into submission I was getting a "low mileage" service with software reset ( and keeping the warranty intact) for effectively £40. (The £99 minus the sixty quid it would cost me for parts to do it myself). Possibly worth it on a £40k vehicle.  But I have decided to take a chance on my £5.5k motorbike and service it myself. At least I know it's done properly. Resale value is not an issue as I will keep it forever....

 

But thanks for the "heads up...!"

[Ciaran 6,880]

On 10/04/2019 at 21:47, Mark8arker said:

If your bike is purchased on PCP agreement and you dont srvicesit  what happens on its return?

 

 

On 11/04/2019 at 14:50, Andywills77 said:

Highly likely main dealer requirement. It'll be buried in the PCP t&cs.

 

I can say from reading the T's n C's of my  PCP agreement, the return of goods section (as long as it's provided by Honda Finance UK) states the following:

 

"The Goods should be returned in good condition for their age and mileage and complete with all keys, servicing records, satellite navigation discs, MOT certificates and registration documents, as applicable. You will be liable for the cost of the replacement for any missing items, plus we may charge you an Administration Fee of £12.00 to replace any missing item. If the sale of the Goods is delayed, as a result of any missing item, you will be liable for any resultant reduction in the value of the Goods.

 

In addition, if the Goods are not returned in good condition and/or have not been serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations and any applicable warranty you will be liable for the cost required to bring the Goods up to good condition or if applicable, we may charge you for any resultant reduction in the value of the Goods." The actual clauses of the Terms are 5.2 for the servicing requirement and clause 8 for the return of goods.

 

I understand then that this will mean you must service the bike in accordance with the time scales (IE, 600 miles at 3 months, 8000 miles or year 1 and or 16000 miles or year 2, whichever is sooner) but I do not believe it has to be done at a Honda dealer as long as you can evidence genuine OEM parts were used. If it's not serviced to standard upon it's return, just as if it's returned in poor condition, you will either have to pay to bring it to standard or pay for the commensurate drop in value.

 

This only applies of course if you intend to hand the bike back to the financier at the end of the PCP. If you intend to keep the bike and simply pay it off then it's no great shakes and similarly if you trade it for the next PCP, the dealer will value it in accordance the magic books they have and it's condition.

 

For myself, the PCP is an easy way for me to reduce the cost of the bike down over 3 years till my bonuses from work will be sufficient to pay it off, probably at a numeric value below what the bike is worth so I end up quids in equity wise. My bike covers so few miles I'll probably keep it till it rusts!

Edited April 14, 2019 by Ciaran1602

[Andy m 23,527]

Did the annual today

 

 

The oil change took half an hour because I measure the oil coming out so I can put the same amount of new in. 

 

The checking stuff took another ten minutes. 

 

I actually spent more time cleaning it. 

 

Andy

[Rocker66 34,437]

Recently paid £48-13 for the first service on my CB500X.

[Andy m 23,527]

You got a good deal, Padgetts did me for a ton this time last year for the 600 miler, plus the train ticket as I couldn't hang about while they did it.

 

Your bloke is smarter, he'll see you again. 

 

Andy

[Rocker66 34,437]

1 hour ago, Andy m said:

You got a good deal, Padgetts did me for a ton this time last year for the 600 miler, plus the train ticket as I couldn't hang about while they did it.

 

Your bloke is smarter, he'll see you again. 

 

Andy

That’s what they do for people who have bought the bike from them. 

[Ciaran 6,880]

On the subject of first services, I’ve just had the quote from our local for the 600 mile service at £169 All inclusive. Not as bad as the OP but certainly more than I’d expect.

 

There is a balance here I suppose in that I chose to buy the bike from another dealer and, even with said service cost, the deal I got is still vastly cheaper than what my local could do. Given the warranty is only for two years I’m definitely considering going independent for the later services. 

 

I would try try to learn to do it myself but I struggled to put together an IKEA cabinet (and still managed to get it wrong). Spanners and I are not on speaking terms. 

[Andy m 23,527]

First question: would you enjoy doing it yourself? If not, no point starting, the savings are a small part of the total.

 

If you would enjoy it (I find it relaxing in a job done sort of way), an oil change is pretty simple, just three or four things to undo and put back (on sensible bikes) and some oil to pour. IKEA nuts and bolts are actually good to practice on. If you can predict when you are about to rip the head off their Chinese tat bolts, the ones Hondasan uses are easy. The only serious thing you can do wrong is strip a thread. Do them a little too loose and nip up if they drip. First time you leave it overnight on newspaper before you put any bodywork back. 

 

Andy

[arengle 449]

22 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

On the subject of first services, I’ve just had the quote from our local for the 600 mile service at £169 All inclusive. Not as bad as the OP but certainly more than I’d expect.

 

There is a balance here I suppose in that I chose to buy the bike from another dealer and, even with said service cost, the deal I got is still vastly cheaper than what my local could do. Given the warranty is only for two years I’m definitely considering going independent for the later services. 

 

I would try try to learn to do it myself but I struggled to put together an IKEA cabinet (and still managed to get it wrong). Spanners and I are not on speaking terms. 

Honestly is a good fair price, you will need 4 liter of oil at £15 /l, a oil filter another £15, plus the washer, so only the parts will be up £75. 1 hour of labor with is around £80, so £169 I think is a good price. If your dealer is honest and follow Honda guidelines, during this service will also check the rest of the bike, including a torque check for the parts than needed assembly after unboxing.

[Ciaran 6,880]

Fair cop Arengle. I suppose it’s easy to forget the manpower and I had no idea it’ll need an oil filter at that low a mileage. Plus I’ve never paid over about £100 for the first services but I did buy from the servicing dealer. Spoilt it seems hah! 

 

The rear shock is making an odd squeaking noise whenever weight is applied which they’re happy to look at as well. 

[elbee 753]

21 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

I had no idea it’ll need an oil filter at that low a mileage.

 

I suppose any bits of metal from manufacturing are meant to get caught in the first 600 miles. I replaced my oil filters then.

 

As I've now hit 8K miles I've just ordered another 4L of Motul 5100 10w30 for £33.95 delivered (from Opie Oils on that auction site). Good news is the Owner's manual specifies after the 600 mile service the oil filters are replaced every 16k.

 

Can I be bothered to detour to Fowlers to get a sump washer for 88p? Probably not

[Andy m 23,527]

I can't see the point in putting new oil through an old filter, but no reason it won't do what Honda say and if you don't disturb it it's one less thing.

 

I only ever replace the sump washer if it's a mess. Once its sealed it's fixed in place. It either drips after a mile or seals for 8000. Honda include it so if they do find one that's corroded they have one ready to hand. You'd imagine the paying public get hacked off when things are delayed overnight over a washer and not all dealers would have the sense to keep a bag of them. It's also tradition from back in the day when surfaces were less flat and turning it put a peak against a trough and it leaked. Annealing tiny bits of copper is an art that I hope remains lost for as long as possible.

 

Andy 

[Rocker66 34,437]

18 minutes ago, Andy m said:

I can't see the point in putting new oil through an old filter, but no reason it won't do what Honda say and if you don't disturb it it's one less thing.

 

I only ever replace the sump washer if it's a mess. Once its sealed it's fixed in place. It either drips after a mile or seals for 8000. Honda include it so if they do find one that's corroded they have one ready to hand. You'd imagine the paying public get hacked off when things are delayed overnight over a washer and not all dealers would have the sense to keep a bag of them. It's also tradition from back in the day when surfaces were less flat and turning it put a peak against a trough and it leaked. Annealing tiny bits of copper is an art that I hope remains lost for as long as possible.

 

Andy 

I have always changed the filter when changing the oil as otherwise it seems the equivalent to washing up in dirty water. I have always worked on the principle that oil and filters are cheaper than engines.

[Ciaran 6,880]

2 hours ago, elbee said:

 

I suppose any bits of metal from manufacturing are meant to get caught in the first 600 miles. I replaced my oil filters then.

 

As I've now hit 8K miles I've just ordered another 4L of Motul 5100 10w30 for £33.95 delivered (from Opie Oils on that auction site). Good news is the Owner's manual specifies after the 600 mile service the oil filters are replaced every 16k.

 

Can I be bothered to detour to Fowlers to get a sump washer for 88p? Probably not

 

The logic behind it seems totally sound just wouldn't have occurred to me to do it.