1st Annual Service..Par for the course?

[alhendo1 3,031]

Thought I'd add my tuppence worth. I've just had my CB500x serviced at Ecosse Motorcycles in Dundee. They seem like a good bunch and don't appear interested in seeing you off which is refreshing. 

I'd called them a few weeks ago and was quoted £130 for the 8k service. 

I asked the guy on the phone to add a filter change in as well even though it's not on the schedule. 

When I arrived this morning the worksheet was shown to me and the filter change had been noted down.

When I paid the bill had been dropped down to 90 quid or something like that...the guy who had serviced it had adhered to the Honda schedule and my old filter was still on. I pointed this out and they quickly apologised, drained off some of the oil, stuck a new filter on...topped it up with more oil....total bill 107 quid and a few pence....so still less than originally quoted. I've just checked the oil level in the garage....bang on the level....not over or underfilled. Good times👍

[Andy m 23,473]

That's not bad when you consider my genuine Honda filter cost £14.75 and I used £15 worth of oil.

 

The CB oil change is literally 20 minutes, just one drain plug. While it drains you do the bung in the breather, silicone the cluch cable, have a quick look round for missing bolts etc. then refill. If the chain needed adjusting or something needed a tweek you might clock up the full hour. 

 

Take your £107 and knock off the £30 of parts (why should they pass on the discount they get, if you want genuine that's the price) and another 2 for spray, the labour and everything else is £75. If it took 20 minutes it's a bit steep, but if you call it an hour for paperwork, organising stuff and disposal of used oil it's not bad. 

 

 

Andy

 

 

[Rocker66 34,375]

2 hours ago, Andy m said:

That's not bad when you consider my genuine Honda filter cost £14.75 and I used £15 worth of oil.

 

The CB oil change is literally 20 minutes, just one drain plug. While it drains you do the bung in the breather, silicone the cluch cable, have a quick look round for missing bolts etc. then refill. If the chain needed adjusting or something needed a tweek you might clock up the full hour. 

 

Take your £107 and knock off the £30 of parts (why should they pass on the discount they get, if you want genuine that's the price) and another 2 for spray, the labour and everything else is £75. If it took 20 minutes it's a bit steep, but if you call it an hour for paperwork, organising stuff and disposal of used oil it's not bad. 

 

 

Andy

 

 

You didn’t factor in the environmental disposal charge for the old oil which dealers have to pay.

[DaveM59 1,603]

I paint my fences with the old stuff, much better than creosote or fence paint.

[alhendo1 3,031]

4 hours ago, Andy m said:

If the chain needed adjusting or something

The chain got a very slight tighten up....I measured the threaded ends when I got home...right hand one is 1mm less than the left hand one....I'll let him off😅....then again.....

Edited May 1, 2019 by alhendo1

[Bart Stilgo 428]

My NC had the first (600) service done free as it was due when I bought the bike.

The 8000 was done by me with genuine parts, and I have to say the oil disposal was the biggest issue.

 

Generally, being involved with service work and technical support I know over servicing on vehicles is the norm.

I had a 3 year PCP on a car, with the normal 12 months or so many miles, it was presumed 3 services were necessary.

So on the first service I was one month late (on purpose) and trimmed down the items on the service schedule to absolute minimum

So twelve months later was due the second service which was of course one month late and then delayed that for another month.  This meant the third service was due two months after the car went back.  On the second service the garage said the brake fluid needed changing, I said no.  They said it can get water in the system.  I asked them how did they know this and did they test the brake fluid to find out.  No answer.  I then asked them why they had fitted such low quality brake fluid.  Then they took that part off the service schedule.  The same with the pollen filter and the air filter (which I removed and checked).  The second service on the car was under £200 after a lot of discussion at the service desk.  The service book was always stamped and that's all the garage cared about in terms of the PCP.  I ended up chopping in the car before the 3 years with a different garage who didn't care what had happened at the service as long as the book was stamped.

 

[maz 15]

I've honestly never had a dealer service any of my vehicles (that said I've never had anything from new so...)

 

I diy'd my first annual on Rwby last weekend, aside from the air box being a little fiddly when inspecting / fitting the K&N filter the service parts took maybe 45 mins.

Replacing the engine guard, fitting the centre stand, rewiring the accessories, fitting the K&N filter, chain and all the other bits took the rest of the day :D.

 

I went high end on the oil which cost me but it was still under £70 + my time, which given it was a Saturday and I had nothing else to do = meh.

 

Just need to get the crash bars back from powder coating, fit a new exhaust clamp (the one on it is not stainless!), and fit my DLR's and she'll be good until I hit 16k.

[sid 227]

If you do the first service for example yourself - how does that affect the warranty?

I was going to do the first on my Rebel myself as I don't trust dealers at all tbh.

[elbee 753]

18 minutes ago, sid said:

If you do the first service for example yourself - how does that affect the warranty?

I was going to do the first on my Rebel myself as I don't trust dealers at all tbh.

 

Doesn't break the Ts & Cs as I read them as I'm competent at that level, kept receipts of Honda parts etc and uploaded photos to google album including one showing the mileage.

 

I bought my bike new over the phone from a dealer I'd never had contact with before and had it delivered. Trust has to be earned so I went through the PID sheet. I found tyre pressures well off and both brake light cables hanging loose at the front lever. But all the right boxes were ticked so Honda would be happy.

 

If I'd wanted the first service done by an experienced mechanic I'd have taken it to a local independent. Let's face it, if a large Honda dealer tasks an apprentice who knows less than you do to service your bike, then you'll get your warranty honoured as you did the right thing. However, I'd rather be alive than have "Of course! The bike's out of control because the sump plug has fallen out and there's oil all over the tyre" as my last thought.

[Andy m 23,473]

Lots of discussion on other threads about this. Honda CAN make you use a dealer, this isn't a car where there is legislation. Unlike Triumph and BMW they don't. If you use genuine parts and have some means to prove the person doing the work was competent you can try and knock down any argument on that score. If you have dealer stamps however you don't have to have that argument. 

 

Remember though that warranty is not about "doing the right thing" or however they dress it up. It is a legal requirement only and was an attempt to give stability to the economy . As Honda are the first level of arbitration they can and will reject any warranty that doesn't suit their overall commercial plan. If accepting your claim opens the floodgates to a recall or they just think they can save a few quid they will reject it. If the dealer is incompetent he isn't going to tell Honda, so will likewise reject it. There are plenty of other excuses when "no dealer stamps" is not available. 

 

Do not kid yourself that the warranty is a painless way to a new bike when yours breaks.

 

If the drainplug falls out through the dealers incompetence you have someone to sue. If you did it you have to take responsibility. Honda has better lawyers than you, if it heads towards that present your case nicely and try to make solving it easier and more attractive than fighting you. 

 

I do all my own services after the 600. My only warranty claim this century was successful (because the Moto Guzzi dealer in Thirsk is a decent bloke who values his well earned reputation and Moto Guzzi obviously don't want to lose him). 

 

Andy

Edited May 6, 2019 by Andy m

[alhendo1 3,031]

12 hours ago, sid said:

If you do the first service for example yourself - how does that affect the warranty?

I was going to do the first on my Rebel myself as I don't trust dealers at all tbh.

I'd say it will invalidate it. I posted up Hondas response to a question I asked them re servicing and service intervals...it's on page 1 of this thread.

You can use either Honda dealer or an independent and retain receipts for oe parts etc but any sniff of something being done incorrectly by an independent will invalidate the part in question....it only mentions using trained persons so unless you can prove you have the relevant standard of competence  (not saying you don't 👍) I'd say servicing yourself will invalidate the warranty....

Others may chime in and prove me wrong...😅. ...that's my interpretation of the email

If you have a claim rejected after self servicing you'll need deep pockets to take on Honda in court.

For peace of mind send them an email and ask the question. ..you then have a recorded response to your own request.

[arengle 449]

2 hours ago, alhendo1 said:

I'd say it will invalidate it. I posted up Hondas response to a question I asked them re servicing and service intervals...it's on page 1 of this thread.

You can use either Honda dealer or an independent and retain receipts for oe parts etc but any sniff of something being done incorrectly by an independent will invalidate the part in question....it only mentions using trained persons so unless you can prove you have the relevant standard of competence  (not saying you don't 👍) I'd say servicing yourself will invalidate the warranty....

Others may chime in and prove me wrong...😅. ...that's my interpretation of the email

If you have a claim rejected after self servicing you'll need deep pockets to take on Honda in court.

For peace of mind send them an email and ask the question. ..you then have a recorded response to your own request.

Not exactly, the email say that "recomends"

The rule is that if the manual tell you how to do it, you can do it, so for the first service the manual tells you to change oil and oil filter. Also read carefully the service planning, you have 3 levels of skill:

1. no special skill, like the oil change as all the instruction are in the owner manual

2. intermediate skill, you need also to have proper tools and you will need the service manual

3. safety skill, usually this is for wheels, where require more because of risk of injury.

As said above warranty is a "legal" thing, you can do it yourself but keep receipts for parts to show that you used what is recommended. Any work will also bring a liability issue, if is done by you, you are labially for any fault, money compensation, etc. that can results of an technical fault, is is done by a dealer or independent service, you are no longer liabile.

I do the first service with dealer, because at the first service they don't do just the oil change they are also supposed to check everything they assemble after unboxing the bike, and after I do my own service with the exception of tyres and chain change.

 

What I wrote above assume that you are the owner of the bike, if you have the bike on finance, probably you are not the legal owner, exist a 3rd party that can say you must use a dealer for all servicing, and you must use it if you don't want financial penalities.

[alhendo1 3,031]

1 hour ago, arengle said:

Not exactly, the email say that "recomends"

The rule is that if the manual tell you how to do it, you can do it, so for the first service the manual tells you to change oil and oil filter. Also read carefully the service planning, you have 3 levels of skill:

1. no special skill, like the oil change as all the instruction are in the owner manual

2. intermediate skill, you need also to have proper tools and you will need the service manual

3. safety skill, usually this is for wheels, where require more because of risk of injury.

As said above warranty is a "legal" thing, you can do it yourself but keep receipts for parts to show that you used what is recommended. Any work will also bring a liability issue, if is done by you, you are labially for any fault, money compensation, etc. that can results of an technical fault, is is done by a dealer or independent service, you are no longer liabile.

I do the first service with dealer, because at the first service they don't do just the oil change they are also supposed to check everything they assemble after unboxing the bike, and after I do my own service with the exception of tyres and chain change.

 

What I wrote above assume that you are the owner of the bike, if you have the bike on finance, probably you are not the legal owner, exist a 3rd party that can say you must use a dealer for all servicing, and you must use it if you don't want financial penalities.

OK... To be fair I had no intention of servicing it myself during the warranty period so I didn't go in depth re asking the question about servicing it yourself... all I wanted to know was independent or main dealer.... looks like you can do either. I would suggest that anyone wishing to self service send Honda an email clearly asking where you stand warranty wise (unless you're not bothered and willing to play the numbers game.. ie.. Honda so should be reliable).... they'll give you the answer you seek....no point guessing and being disappointed. My gut feeling is it would be null and void no matter what difficulty level the manual suggests......unless it was maybe a cosmetic issue which didn't require any mechanical knowledge or input. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by alhendo1

[embee 7,288]

Like the above, I work on the "infant mortality" principle. Nearly all major issues will show up quite early on. I've bought 4 vehicles new, and got the first services done by the manufacturer's dealership. After that I've done all servicing myself, and haven't yet been bitten by anything. However I treat things like wheel bearings as just one of those things, if they need doing I buy a pair of bearings for £10 and do it, warranty/schmarranty.

Getting the first service done by a manufacturer's dealership buys you a year of "no quibble" (hopefully) if something does go wrong as a warranty item. You pay a bit of a premium for it, but in my book it's a one off cost associated with buying the vehicle.

The amount I've saved by self-service over the years will pay for a pretty major hit if it ever happens.

It does depend on your skill/facilities/interest and also significantly what you intend to do with the vehicle. If you want to trade it in after 2 or 3 yrs then stamps are probably worth it, if like me you tend to keep stuff for donkey's years then it makes no difference.

[Ciaran 6,880]

It's worth noting that if you have a PCP, you are required by the contract to service it in line with the manufacturer recommendations and the warranty. I'm fairly sure the manual recommends you service it at a main dealer so you're technically contractually obligated to do so.

 

That being said this will only be relevant if you intend to walk away from the deal at the end of your pcp period. If you pay the bike off and keep it, no one cars. If you trade it, it'll be up to the dealer whether he cares or not; if he does, he'll likely reduce the trade in value which may eat into any trade in deposit or put you in negative equity (though this is not 'supposed' to happen).