Things to get checked out or...

[Ciaran 6,880]

Mechanical Luddite warning; I'm mostly clueless and have little inclination to change that.

 

A couple of things have come to my attention now I'm nearing the point of getting the bike it's 600 mile service (have to find a way to cover 100 miles or so in a week, sure I'll manage!). These could be nothing, but if it's something I should ask the dealer to check then I will.

 

Firstly, there's a very slight mechanical "whine" when it revs. At least it makes the noise in time with the engine firing so I assume it's rev related. It's slightly worse first thing in the morning and when pulling away so I made the assumption it was something transmission related; having not had a manual one before It could well be.

 

Secondly, it's prone to jumping out of gear under acceleration and not necessarily very hard acceleration either. It's happened in 2nd and 4th so far; similarly I'm getting quite a few "false" changes where it feels like the gear has changed but the dash reads -- and it becomes apparent it isn't in gear at all.

 

I'm wondering both whether something hasn't been adjusted quite right or I'm just being hamfisted cause I haven't ridden a manual in a long ol' time.

[temp 359]

'prone to jumping out of gear under acceleration and not necessarily very hard acceleration either. It's happened in 2nd and 4th so far; similarly I'm getting quite a few "false" changes where it feels like the gear has changed but the dash reads -- and it becomes apparent it isn't in gear at all.'

 

That's not right at all.

 

Return it as it is 'not fit for purpose.'

 

Where did you buy it?

 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

Are you still riding the 750S as stated in your profile?

If so, the engine is horribly noisy mechanically - if the only noise mine made was a whine I'd have been delighted.  But loads of bike engines whine - it's not unusual to find straight-cut gears - which are the primary source of whines - for stuff like camshaft or balance shaft drives.

 

I'd like to suggest you change your gear-changing technique.  When you've pulled the clutch in and moved the gear change lever, KEEP PRESSURE ON THE LEVER as you release the clutch.  One time in twenty you will feel it snick a little bit further into gear - congratulations, you've just avoided a false neutral or partially engaged gear (which causes the jumping out).  It's a technique that can be used on every gearbox - from those that would find false neutrals all the bloody time (my original Enfield), to those that never mis-change.  It's just a tiny change of technique and will be automatic before you know it.

If your bike is old or second-hand, it's possible the gear dogs are worn, which can also cause jumping out.  Or, the detent spring for the selector is broken - similar effect.  I can't remember: is your bike newish?  And an NC?

[Tex 36,817]

Ciaran, most certainly worth getting a ‘second opinion’ from someone who doesn’t have a ‘dog in the hunt’. That’s to say, someone who doesn’t work for the dealership. If the dealer tests it you’ll never be sure if he’s being honest or just trying to wriggle out of some heavy repairs.

 

Steve gives good advice (above). The NC is far from silent (my Integra sounded like two skeletons shagging in a metal box, but it flew so I never bothered!) and it’s quite possible your technique needs a little attention (i.e. put more thought into gear changing). 

 

As always, loads of help and advice available to you. 

 

[Ciaran 6,880]

Was bought about 2 months ago from new after spending two years on a X-DCT. Currently around 500 miles on the clock. I would be reluctant for a fight with the selling dealer because a) they're in Manchester and b ) I'd be highly surprised if there's anything categorically wrong with it. Rear shock is a bit squeaky but that's probably just in need of oils or some such.

Consequently the 1st service is being done by my local dealer, quite amicably and they're quite happy to take a look at the things I've highlighted. They know the sale didn't proceed simply because they weren't even within a country mile of being competitive but they've got the servicing and future sales of both myself and father so are keeping us sweet. I don't expect them to go out of their way but I do trust them enough to give me an opinion that's unbiased. Worst case scenario and it's a genuine issue, I'll just have to chalk that up to one of life's lessons in that the good deal sometimes isn't as good later down the line.

My suspicion on face value is that the PDI and prep was done rather haphazardly and so there's probably all sorts of little things that could do with being touched up. Couple that with my oaf feet and having not ridden a manual in long enough to have lost the 'feel' for it, I'm confident there's probably nothing wrong.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Ciaran1602

[temp 359]

A local mechanic guy who you trust is worth his wiegth in gold

[PoppetM 16,833]

If you are not happy with what they tell you ask Trisaki for another opinion. He is along the A27 at Yapton.

 

I hit neutral a few times between 1-2 but usually only when I swapped winter/summer boots.

 

Don't recall a whine..

 

Crikey I am already over 4K...you need to get out more! 

[Ciaran 6,880]

3 minutes ago, PoppetM said:

If you are not happy with what they tell you ask Trisaki for another opinion. He is along the A27 at Yapton.

 

I hit neutral a few times between 1-2 but usually only when I swapped winter/summer boots.

 

Don't recall a whine..

 

Crikey I am already over 4K...you need to get out more! 

 

You're commute is many, maaaaany miles longer than mine! I'm not even sure I'm not happy as such, more that I'm unsure whether I'm being overly sensitive about stuff!

[Spindizzy 7,109]

I doubt there are any issues. The NC sounds like a sewing machine. The gearbox is a little agricultural but gets smoother with miles. Decent oil helps after your first service. I hit the odd false neutral but you soon get the knack. Just keep pressure on that gearchange until the lever is out. 

 

Oh and yes mine whines a little as well. Also a swishing sound until the oil warms. My X did it as well. 

 

Earplugs. Fixes all of it. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Spindizzy

[Ciaran 6,880]

I think the DCT isolated me from quite a bit of the noise prior. It goes, stops and corners perfectly fine so it can't be all that bad!

[PoppetM 16,833]

25 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

 

You're commute is many, maaaaany miles longer than mine! 

I can't blame just the commute....its had a lot of social rides too....

[alhendo1 3,041]

Probably too obvious but how is the chain tension....the reason I ask is when I had my NC a buffoon of a dealer tightened the chain like a bow string and it was the whining noise and strange gearchange that immediately alerted me to it.....

[Tel 4,712]

Ciaran, have you checked your chain tension? Is it over tight? That can cause the whine you mention and also affects the gearchange... Good luck with getting it sorted and I hope you're enjoying the bike otherwise.

[pjm 6,041]

I will second a quick check of chain tension. Can lie at the bottom of a lot of gear change issues. By the time I pressed send I was ‘thirding’ rather than seconding. Had to edit the post chain 😄😄

Edited May 15, 2019 by pjm

[Spindizzy 7,109]

4 minutes ago, alhendo1 said:

Probably too obvious but how is the chain tension....the reason I ask is when I had my NC a buffoon of a dealer tightened the chain like a bow string and it was the whining noise and strange gearchange that immediately alerted me to it.....

Easy to check. On the side stand just give it a flick up and down. Should be some easy slop in it. If it was too tight you would feel it there. The S has a little less slack than the X anyway. 

 

 

[Ciaran 6,880]

So the manual reckons it should be 1.0-1.4 inches in ‘’play”. Assuming I’m measuring right it’s barely 1 inch...that’s might well be it!

[Spindizzy 7,109]

2 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

So the manual reckons it should be 1.0-1.4 inches in ‘’play”. Assuming I’m measuring right it’s barely 1 inch...that’s might well be it!

Thats fully unloaded on a centre stand.Would be a little less on the side stand as the swingarm is a fraction further up i.e tighter. If its just about an inch probably ok.

 

To whine it would have to actually be tight with almost no play.

 

 

 

[alhendo1 3,041]

If you sit on the bike (most of your weight is on it)....reach down and see how much...if any free play there is....

 

[XXX 2,697]

1 hour ago, Ciaran1602 said:

I think the DCT isolated me from quite a bit of the noise prior. It goes, stops and corners perfectly fine so it can't be all that bad!

So why did you sell it? 🤪🤪

[Ciaran 6,880]

Just now, Woody 99 said:

So why did you sell it? 🤪🤪

 

Hardehar 

[trisaki 2,029]

Yes check the chain , sounds  like it is way too tight , turn rear wheel to find the tightest  spot , see if chain almost  hits the bottom  of swing arm  , not the most accurate  way but good enough  for now  

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

10 hours ago, Ciaran1602 said:

Mechanical Luddite warning; I'm mostly clueless and have little inclination to change that.

I love that. Oh I wish I could afford that attitude AND you have a mechanic you trust.  Luck boy.

I echo what others have said about the noisy engine,  a little embarrassing at times, but I've never had gear change problems, Oh s**t, shouldn't have said that. 

[Ciaran 6,880]

1 hour ago, Grumpy old man said:

I love that. Oh I wish I could afford that attitude AND you have a mechanic you trust.  Luck boy.

I echo what others have said about the noisy engine,  a little embarrassing at times, but I've never had gear change problems, Oh s**t, shouldn't have said that. 

 

Why do you think I’m becoming a lawyer? 

 

To be fair, I think I would be prepared to know more about maintaining the thing. However I have a propensity for breaking things. 

[Ciaran 6,880]

12 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

Are you still riding the 750S as stated in your profile?

If so, the engine is horribly noisy mechanically - if the only noise mine made was a whine I'd have been delighted.  But loads of bike engines whine - it's not unusual to find straight-cut gears - which are the primary source of whines - for stuff like camshaft or balance shaft drives.

 

I'd like to suggest you change your gear-changing technique.  When you've pulled the clutch in and moved the gear change lever, KEEP PRESSURE ON THE LEVER as you release the clutch.  One time in twenty you will feel it snick a little bit further into gear - congratulations, you've just avoided a false neutral or partially engaged gear (which causes the jumping out).  It's a technique that can be used on every gearbox - from those that would find false neutrals all the bloody time (my original Enfield), to those that never mis-change.  It's just a tiny change of technique and will be automatic before you know it.

If your bike is old or second-hand, it's possible the gear dogs are worn, which can also cause jumping out.  Or, the detent spring for the selector is broken - similar effect.  I can't remember: is your bike newish?  And an NC?

 

Your gearchange technique worked wonders, thank you greatly. 

 

There appears to be suitable travel in the chain as it’s only about half a cm or so from the swing arm when resting on the side stand as per Trisaki. Alright enough it can be safe until it goes in on Wednesday, I would guess. 

[Trev 18,610]

Deffo shouldn't be jumping out of gear IMO. You're either being incredibly lightfooted/toed due to you being spoilt by the wonders of DCT (but then you did want to 'take back control' ) or there is a problem with the  bike. I would recommend letting a more recent 'manual changer' give it a try and see what they think, it will be easy to decide.