Rear Brakes

[SRR 9]

Hi 

 I am new to the NC750X [and biking for the last 30 years!!] Just been out on the NC for the second time, I have noticed that the the front brakes are very good - but the rear seem to be poor!!.

 Are the front brakes linked to the rears ??? 

Steve

[Spindizzy 7,109]

No they aren't linked.

 

Rear on its own feels crap, but both together seems greater than the sum of the parts.

 

ABS on both. If you can get the rear ABS to kick in then greater braking isn't really an issue.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Spindizzy

[rjp996 1,091]

Rear as standard is a non sintered pad. Agree if feels weak compared to say the AT, however if you push hard you can trigger the abs so it's more than effective enough. I just adapted to the feel of it, and find it actually good for control when slow filtering in london. 

[Andywills77 433]

They told us when doing the CBT and das that the front is 70% of the braking power...on my NC its definitely the case..

 

I did have a 125 that was an exception to this. It had a drum brake on the back and my god did that thing stop if you slammed down on the pedal

[Tonyj 6,907]

Same as above for me. Rear brake ok use Honda pads as well

Edited May 20, 2019 by Tonyj

[SRR 9]

OK  - many thanks guys. Just need to get used to the rear poor brakes and “stomp” a bit harder!!

I can’t remember that I had a problem with my CX500 and older bikes - but maybe they had drums on the back!!

many thanks for your reply’s 

Steve

[Chriswright03 1,257]

In my experience a great many riders either don't use their rear brake at all or don't use it properly.  Saw a bloke yesterday here filtering in traffic on some big hog type thing.  He had to brake in slow moving traffic and I saw the front end lurch down showing he had just had a grab of the front brake when he realised he wasn't going to make it through the gap.  Very often seen it in town riding when someone will pull up at a junction and the forks dive down usually on gravel and both feet come out as they have lost balance.

 

Whilst not wanting to teach Granny to suck eggs I still think it worthy of stating that at walking speed the rear brake (even on the NC) is quite capable of stopping the bike. It prevents the front forks from diving with the consequent weight transference and aids balance so you can just put your left foot out to keep the bike up and thereby keep your right foot on the brake pedal.

 

I recall being at Cadwell for a track day when I was doing the road tuition for Roger Burnett's 'Ride' track days seeing lots of riders on really high powered sports bikes dropping down the hill into the car park on the gravel infested road and the bikes lurching continually as they were grabbing the front brake to slow down.  I can imagine many of them having their backsides twitching like a rabbit's nose as they were skidding off lumps of stone.  Gentle pressure on the rear brake would have slowed their descent in a controlled way but of course many of them being track day 'experts' didn't use the back brake.

[pjm 6,041]

I can distinctly remember the rear brake on my air cooled RD350 being extremely powerful. You could feel it begin to skid as the rear came up when braking sharply and you had to moderate it carefully. Since returning to biking again in 2012 I have been through a variety of modern bikes and not one has had a rear brake that has given me any confidence at all.

 

[Tex 36,817]

If the bike is new (?) or had little use, remember that the brakes will improve with usage as the pads bed in. Just use it more, practice more and all will be well. 

 

As others have already said, the rear brake is an important tool in low speed control. It’s worth getting the hang of it! 

[XXX 2,697]

1 hour ago, Chriswright03 said:

In my experience a great many riders either don't use their rear brake at all or don't use it properly.  

Guilty as charged, m’Lud. Although I’m trying to change that now. Have up until now only used the back brake to slow descent on windies. Then, I read something recently that said it makes more sense to use the back brake to come to a halt, for example at traffic lights, without the plunging front forks. It is a weird feeling. Having almost exclusively used the front brake to stop up until now (about 2 years overall bike experience) it becomes an exercise in trust to try and change my habits. Not dissimilar or trying to keep my eyes open while coming down a steep, tight hairpin bend. 

[Tex 36,817]

 

36 minutes ago, Woody 99 said:

Not dissimilar or trying to keep my eyes open while coming down a steep, tight hairpin bend. 

 

Brother, you need help!  

[Chriswright03 1,257]

1 hour ago, Woody 99 said:

Guilty as charged, m’Lud. Although I’m trying to change that now. Have up until now only used the back brake to slow descent on windies. Then, I read something recently that said it makes more sense to use the back brake to come to a halt, for example at traffic lights, without the plunging front forks. It is a weird feeling. Having almost exclusively used the front brake to stop up until now (about 2 years overall bike experience) it becomes an exercise in trust to try and change my habits. Not dissimilar or trying to keep my eyes open while coming down a steep, tight hairpin bend. 

Like I said at walking speeds the back brake is plenty good enough to stop you under complete control.  It is that grabbing the front brake when all of a sudden the lights change or the car in front stops that causes the weight to fly forward and hence why you see a lot of people put both feet down as they haven't the faintest idea which way the bike is going to lean when they have stopped.  I always taught as you are stopping put your left leg out ready to touch the ground.  On all of us (some more than others) a leg weighs quite a bit.  As the bike reacts to quite small weight transference you stick your left leg out the bike will lean to the left. 

 

These simple skills should have been taught when you were training.  OK I was taught to be an instructor and was already a Police Advanced rider so I had an advantage but of course passing my test on a Lambretta LI150 when I was 16 required no tuition at all and I had to learn all of the skills in the Police.  Of course knowing the skills and how to use them doesn't mean you can instruct and I had to learn that as well.  Actually being an instructor taught me far more than even the Advanced Police course did because I then had to assess other riders riding and recognise what they were doing wrong in order to correct it.  Taught me far more about my own skill level and improved my riding confidence massively.

 

Sorry appear to have hijacked another thread.

[embee 7,288]

1 hour ago, Woody 99 said:

…….. to come to a halt, for example at traffic lights, without the plunging front forks. ……...

When doing my driving test at a certain car maker in Crewe, I was taught the "chauffeur" method of coming to a stop, which is to do your braking progressively in good time and gradually let them off as you approach standstill, allowing the compliance in the suspension/subframes to unload before actually coming to a stop. If done well you hardly notice the actual stop, all in the interest of the comfort of the "payload". I've always tried to adopt the same principles on a bike (where possible), even when braking reasonably hard you can usually ease them off gradually and avoid the pogo stick stop.

 

Give it a try, once you get into the habit it becomes the norm.

[Chriswright03 1,257]

Indeed that way you don't see your passengers acting like nodding dogs.  Observation skills are essential in driving smoothly.  When I was working in the funeral industry they took me out for a test run in a limmo and put a cup of water on the dashboard.  Apparently most of the drivers managed to knock it over.  Luckily I managed not to spill a drop.

[XXX 2,697]

6 minutes ago, embee said:

When doing my driving test at a certain car maker in Crewe, I was taught the "chauffeur" method of coming to a stop, which is to do your braking progressively in good time and gradually let them off as you approach standstill, allowing the compliance in the suspension/subframes to unload before actually coming to a stop. If done well you hardly notice the actual stop, all in the interest of the comfort of the "payload". I've always tried to adopt the same principles on a bike (where possible), even when braking reasonably hard you can usually ease them off gradually and avoid the pogo stick stop.

 

Give it a try, once you get into the habit it becomes the norm.

To be honest, I’ve become reasonably competent at breaking in that fashion for the planned and anticipated stops. Sudden stops are a different matter. 

[Chriswright03 1,257]

If you aren't very good at braking you will be good at breaking!  TIC.

[XXX 2,697]

1 hour ago, Chriswright03 said:

If you aren't very good at braking you will be good at breaking!  TIC.

Oops!

[SRR 9]

Hi All

 Very glad that have started a interesting tread!! I must admit that when I started riding bikes I always used the rear bake along with the front when stopping. Which is why it surprised me that my NC had good front brakes and the back “seemed” so poor! I know some bikes at scxxters have linked brakes.

 Steve 

[embee 7,288]

2 hours ago, SRR said:

…….I know some bikes at scxxters have linked brakes.

 Steve 

For info ……

The first generation NC700 had the Honda linked brakes. The rear brake pedal (or lever on the Integra) operated the rear disc and one out of three pistons in the front caliper. The front lever operated the remaining two pistons in the front caliper, but did not actuate the rear brake at all.

The NC750 dropped the linked brakes and has a two piston front caliper.

We can only assume it was a cost reduction exercise, the ABS system was significantly more complex having 3 channels (rear lever/rear wheel, rear lever/front wheel, front lever/front wheel)

https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/

[Hickky 3,131]

Steve, the European version of the CX500 had twin discs at the front and could overpower the crap Bridgestone tyres fitted original equipment, first day I got mine I dropped it at traffic lights from using the pressure I would normally use on my single disced Mk1 Superdream. The rear was a single leading shoe drum brake and was less effective than any disc. The issue is probably the NC front brake works well, far better than 1979 twin discs being four piston calipers, but, like most modern bikes, the rear brake is a single piston sliding caliper and you probably are just getting used to the difference. Rear brakes help stability, use them.

[neil700 72]

You can improve the rear brake feel if it bothers you. My NC from new had almost zero rear braking, but a quick bleed of the rear system and it was much better. Was surprised about how many bubbles came out.

[SRR 9]

Thanks Neil - Will give that a try.

 Steve

[Chriswright03 1,257]

Another thing to keep in mind.  If you are a car driver you will be used to pressing quite hard at times to stop with the brake.  If you used that sort of force on a bike you would lock the back wheel unless you have ABS.  It is a case of getting used to the individual brakes on the bike you are riding and then you will instantly know just how much pressure to apply.  Muscle memory is a wonderful thing.  Well it is until Honda move the horn button.

[listener 11,180]

On 21/05/2019 at 08:36, Tex said:

 

 

Quote

Not dissimilar or trying to keep my eyes open while coming down a steep, tight hairpin bend. 

 

Brother, you need help!  

 

 

That makes two of us! 

 

On the likes of the Bealach na Ba or Berriedale Braes my brain is fighting a battle between "look where you want to go" and "OMG look at that bloody drop"! 

[XXX 2,697]

2 hours ago, listener said:

 

That makes two of us! 

 

On the likes of the Bealach na Ba or Berriedale Braes my brain is fighting a battle between "look where you want to go" and "OMG look at that bloody drop"! 

EXACTLY!!!!