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Why are we paying MotoGP service prices?


Newoldbiker

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Rocker66
6 minutes ago, Tex said:

 

If Rocker had been able to keep his Crossrunner the services would have been way more expensive than his new 500 (obviously). And his Monkey will be half the cost of the 500..

 

My son has the best service package - get the old man to do it. ;) 

That’s if I ever get to put enough miles on the 500 for it need to service. Due to weather and other stuff getting in the way I’ve not quite got  2k miles on it yet.

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Is that where the customer always comes first? 

* Larryblag stands up and salutes *

If Rocker had been able to keep his Crossrunner the services would have been way more expensive than his new 500 (obviously). And his Monkey will be half the cost of the 500..   My son has t

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Defender
28 minutes ago, Tex said:

My son has the best service package - get the old man to do it. ;) 

And who better!

Edited by Defender
Duplicate post.
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Rocker66
1 hour ago, Tex said:

 

If Rocker had been able to keep his Crossrunner the services would have been way more expensive than his new 500 (obviously). And his Monkey will be half the cost of the 500..

 

My son has the best service package - get the old man to do it. ;) 

At least you then get to take it for an extended road test.

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Grumpy old man
2 hours ago, Defender said:

My mates 2012 Tiger 800XR had a 24000 mile service earlier this year, the Triumph dealers cost was about £1200, as there is over a days labour to do it.

He found an independent ex-Triumph mechanic who did it for just over half that, he does it to the book using all Triumph parts.

My NC'X had it's 24,000 mile service shortly afterwards, just over £300 at the Honda dealers, quite a contrast?

 

24000 is just an oil and filter change so not really value but I could be wrong

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arengle
20 hours ago, Newoldbiker said:

So at the rate Mr Honda wants = £144 divided by 1.5 = £96 per hour.  What's going on?  It's ridiculous!  Feeler gauges =  £5 off flea bay, tarpaulin to keep me dry = £6 and the cost of the new timing cover = say £10.  Job done for £20

But, you forgot to add the working space, for each Honda will pay a rent, you didn't add electricity, and many more.

A £60 to £100 per hour cost I think is acceptable, a service do need to pay salaries, rent, electricity, pay for tools and also maintenance of tools, if they use a lift table, that will need to be inspected annually for H&S, torque wrench will need calibrations regularly, also they pay insurance, if they botch the job and you get injured that a lot of liability for them.

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Defender
On 6/11/2019 at 12:55, Grumpy old man said:

24000 is just an oil and filter change so not really value but I could be wrong

OK, but plus new rear brake pads, both calipers were binding too. 

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Grumpy old man
49 minutes ago, Defender said:

OK, but plus new rear brake pads, both calipers were binding too. 

It's all to do with what you are happy with and if you are happy then that'll do. If I could afford to, I'd take my bikes in all the time, I prefer riding to fixing and this point in time I don't like fixing at all, maybe when I retire things might be different.

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Defender

I think we maybe overlooking the costs of running a business?

Business rates, rent, insurance, running costs of a building etc, then there's the the cost of the staff, training, sickness, wages!

No one wants to feel they're being ripped off, that goes for both the customers, employees or proprietors?

To put things into perspective perhaps, I have just had my Honda car serviced by a Honda dealer, that was about twice the price of the NC'X's service.

 

 

Edited by Defender
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Defender
On 6/11/2019 at 10:40, Rocker66 said:

That’s if I ever get to put enough miles on the 500 for it need to service. Due to weather and other stuff getting in the way I’ve not quite got  2k miles on it yet.

I know just what you mean Rocker', I've done three trips to Kingston this week, all very wet in at least one direction. I felt that it'd better/dryer to go by canoe!

Edited by Defender
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Rocker66
14 minutes ago, Defender said:

I know just what you mean Rocker', I've done three trips to Kingston this week, all very wet in at least one direction. I felt that it'd better/dryer to go by canoe!

Had plenty of that when we were commuting now we just ride for pleasure 99.9% of the time so only tend to ride in the dry unless either we get caught out or really have to be somewhere.

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Defender
1 minute ago, Rocker66 said:

Had plenty of that when we were commuting now we just ride for pleasure 99.9% of the time so only tend to ride in the dry unless either we get caught out or really have to be somewhere.

I could have taken the car and nearly did, but even in this weather the NC'X is/was the better option, when coupled with good quality clothing and tyres that work well in the wet!

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Andy m
On 11/06/2019 at 06:15, Roy Atkinson said:

If you buy a BMW GS aren`t the service costs a lot more?

BMW are usually sensible. They think long term, but see below. 

 

Service costs are just supply and demand. I had a bloke in January want me to fly out to Antigua to fix a trailer. Basically prepared to pay anything because he'd been pulled in by European technology (US trailers still have square wheels and a bloke called Gummy sat on top with a shot gun) and when he'd broken it no one there had a clue. Even with airfare, hotel and £50 per hour travelling and £250 per on site I won't go. When he broke it again it'd be a warranty job. Supply was zero (at least in his mind I was the only person who knew what it was) , demand very high, price stupid. 

On 11/06/2019 at 09:10, Tex said:

 

Ducati were very hardline about it and wouldn’t give him a penny towards the (substantial, needed a new head) bill.

 

Why would they? Warranty is a legal requirement, but the law is too expensive for Joe Public. There is a limit, Whirlpool for example have surrendered to the Australian government and ours have finally brought up bigger guns than Peterborough Town Council, so may get a result. Accept that and warranty is a PR exercise. Your mate wasn't going to buy another demonic valve bike, so let him trade is wreck at the Honda dealers and badmouth them, but do it without the cost of an expensive repair. 

 

On 11/06/2019 at 10:13, Defender said:

My G310R's last service was......  recall work was also done, but there was no charge for that.

 

Copied from another forum. Ted works for a BMW dealership near Liverpool. 

 

"As a BMW Tech, I would only buy a brand new 310 and only expect it to last 20,000 miles before throwing it in the bin. 

Current faults on most 310s.

Leaking and seizing calipers. 
Cush drive rubbers failing in 2000 miles
Utter garbage chain and sprockets fitted as standard
Random sensor failures
Snapping frames where the side stand mounts (recall to reinforce frame in place)

The motor seems to be okay. No serious problems seen. 

It's a seriously 'Built to budget' bike. It's probably on par with Asian bikes half the price. You pay a lot for the badge."

The BMW sales model is about contact which I have explained to Ted and he doesn't really get. You sell the punter overpriced tat on the basis it makes him feel better and has a bigger margin (won't be huge for BMW they are still too small to lean on the major suppliers) . Buzzwords are" Exclusive", "Premium", "Executive". When said tat drops to bits you treat him better than God but not consistently. Sometimes the suited lizard licks his boots and cancels the bill. Sometimes "they all do that SSsssir". Sometimes we encourage SSsssir that it might be time to upgrade before the warranty runs out. The customer actually feels better for paying more overall because if it cost more it must be better. Win-Win. 

 

Andy

Edited by Andy m
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8 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Your mate wasn't going to buy another demonic valve bike, so let him trade is wreck at the Honda dealers and badmouth them, but do it without the cost of an expensive repair. 

 

He wasn’t a mate, just someone I knew (and didn’t like much). He did actually buy another Ducati (a 916 something or other) unbelievable or what?!

 

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Andy m

A dream customer! The only better ones are at Miss Whiplash's House of Pain (So I've heard).

 

Andy

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31 minutes ago, Andy m said:

A dream customer! The only better ones are at Miss Whiplash's House of Pain (So I've heard).

 

Andy

 

He was no stranger to those establishments either. His wife thought he was going to the Moto GP at Assen but he got no further that the brothels of Amsterdam..  

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Andy m
4 minutes ago, Tex said:

... got no further that the brothels of Amsterdam..  

Well who hasn't done that :angel::D:D

 

A useful bit of Dutch IIRC "Ik het kein geld" , ends the sales pitch and lets you get on with the tourist stuff.

 

Andy

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Mr Toad
4 hours ago, Andy m said:

A dream customer! The only better ones are at Miss Whiplash's House of Pain (So I've heard).

 

Andy

 

Is that where the customer always comes first? 

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4 hours ago, Andy m said:

Well who hasn't done that :angel::D:D

 

Well, me, actually.. ;):D 

 

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Mark8arker
On 14/06/2019 at 07:54, Andy m said:

BMW are usually sensible. They think long term, but see below. 

 

Service costs are just supply and demand. I had a bloke in January want me to fly out to Antigua to fix a trailer. Basically prepared to pay anything because he'd been pulled in by European technology (US trailers still have square wheels and a bloke called Gummy sat on top with a shot gun) and when he'd broken it no one there had a clue. Even with airfare, hotel and £50 per hour travelling and £250 per on site I won't go. When he broke it again it'd be a warranty job. Supply was zero (at least in his mind I was the only person who knew what it was) , demand very high, price stupid. 

 

Why would they? Warranty is a legal requirement, but the law is too expensive for Joe Public. There is a limit, Whirlpool for example have surrendered to the Australian government and ours have finally brought up bigger guns than Peterborough Town Council, so may get a result. Accept that and warranty is a PR exercise. Your mate wasn't going to buy another demonic valve bike, so let him trade is wreck at the Honda dealers and badmouth them, but do it without the cost of an expensive repair. 

 

 

Copied from another forum. Ted works for a BMW dealership near Liverpool. 

 

"As a BMW Tech, I would only buy a brand new 310 and only expect it to last 20,000 miles before throwing it in the bin. 

Current faults on most 310s.

Leaking and seizing calipers. 
Cush drive rubbers failing in 2000 miles
Utter garbage chain and sprockets fitted as standard
Random sensor failures
Snapping frames where the side stand mounts (recall to reinforce frame in place)

The motor seems to be okay. No serious problems seen. 

It's a seriously 'Built to budget' bike. It's probably on par with Asian bikes half the price. You pay a lot for the badge."

The BMW sales model is about contact which I have explained to Ted and he doesn't really get. You sell the punter overpriced tat on the basis it makes him feel better and has a bigger margin (won't be huge for BMW they are still too small to lean on the major suppliers) . Buzzwords are" Exclusive", "Premium", "Executive". When said tat drops to bits you treat him better than God but not consistently. Sometimes the suited lizard licks his boots and cancels the bill. Sometimes "they all do that SSsssir". Sometimes we encourage SSsssir that it might be time to upgrade before the warranty runs out. The customer actually feels better for paying more overall because if it cost more it must be better. Win-Win. 

 

Andy

Bit off topic,  but BMW related. Before i bought the NC i had test ride on a F800R. Great bike to ride. Services prices put me off + you don't see many high millage ones for sale?  That to me says they have a problem. Have asked several dealers why this is considering its ment to be good bike! They all shrug there shoulders dont say much. 

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Mr Toad
5 hours ago, Mark8arker said:

Bit off topic,  but BMW related. Before i bought the NC i had test ride on a F800R. Great bike to ride. Services prices put me off + you don't see many high millage ones for sale?  That to me says they have a problem. Have asked several dealers why this is considering its ment to be good bike! They all shrug there shoulders dont say much. 

 

Showrooms are full of bikes that their owners hardly ever rode. I'm sure most of us know someone who only rides their bike on dry sunny weekends during the summer. 

 

My Bonnie T100 was 7 years old when I bought it and had just under 2000 miles on the clock. My own brother in law bought a new Thruxton and put a whopping 340 miles on it in 18 months, he then swapped it for a new Tracer 900 which stands in his garage and the way things are shaping up he'll do even less miles on it than he did on the Thruxton.

 

Mind you it does look nice parked next to his F type Jag convertible.

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larryblag
12 hours ago, Mark8arker said:

Bit off topic,  but BMW related. Before i bought the NC i had test ride on a F800R. Great bike to ride. Services prices put me off + you don't see many high millage ones for sale?  That to me says they have a problem. Have asked several dealers why this is considering its ment to be good bike! They all shrug there shoulders dont say much. 

I tried one of those too. Very sensitive RBW throttle made it difficult in traffic, nice engine though. Looked great in the red/white/blue colour scheme. Kelly didn't like the looks and the oversized plastic cover over the filler cap dug in her thigh. Of the styling she said from the front it "looked like it had a broken neck". That ended any potential sale for them unfortunately. :logik:

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larryblag
6 hours ago, Mr Toad said:

 

Showrooms are full of bikes that their owners hardly ever rode. I'm sure most of us know someone who only rides their bike on dry sunny weekends during the summer. 

* Larryblag stands up and salutes *

:D

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SteveThackery
19 hours ago, Mark8arker said:

Bit off topic,  but BMW related. Before i bought the NC i had test ride on a F800R. Great bike to ride. Services prices put me off + you don't see many high millage ones for sale?  That to me says they have a problem. Have asked several dealers why this is considering its ment to be good bike! They all shrug there shoulders dont say much. 

 

I've got one, after doing a lot of research.  In fact they don't have a problem*.  They are a great bike, but I would say they often get bought by middle-aged wannabe bikers who hope to rekindle their fading manhood by cruising with their missus across Europe but find the boxers a bit heavy/powerful/big/intimidating/expensive.

 

Honestly, provided you can live with the shit engine sound (a 360-degree parallel twin, thus even firing intervals like the boxers), it's actually a cracking bike and exudes great design and build quality (much better than the NC in those regards, but £3 grand more, of course).  I can't comment on the looks, because I don't care in the slightest about such things.

 

* Actually there might be a tiny defect: they seem slightly prone to stalling when pulling away.  I can't decide whether this is just a combination of very light flywheel and fly-by-wire throttle, or some subtle glitch in the ECU software.  But honestly it's an insignificant problem which I don't experience now I'm used to it.

 

Edited by SteveThackery
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Mr Toad
1 hour ago, SteveThackery said:

 

I've got one, after doing a lot of research.  In fact they don't have a problem*.  They are a great bike, but I would say they often get bought by middle-aged wannabe bikers who hope to rekindle their fading manhood by cruising with their missus across Europe but find the boxers a bit heavy/powerful/big/intimidating/expensive.

 

Honestly, provided you can live with the shit engine sound (a 360-degree parallel twin, thus even firing intervals like the boxers), it's actually a cracking bike and exudes great design and build quality (much better than the NC in those regards, but £3 grand more, of course).  I can't comment on the looks, because I don't care in the slightest about such things.

 

* Actually there might be a tiny defect: they seem slightly prone to stalling when pulling away.  I can't decide whether this is just a combination of very light flywheel and fly-by-wire throttle, or some subtle glitch in the ECU software.  But honestly it's an insignificant problem which I don't experience now I'm used to it.

 

 

Has it got the latest version of the software?

 

Even if you've had it in to the dealers it might be worth checking the version installed as they often don't automatically install the latest version especially if the customer isn't complaining of any issues that might possibly be software related. Sometimes even if the customer does complain some dealers have been known to assume the software is up to date and that the problem is something else and embark a series of often expensive part swaps. 

 

In true forum fashion I'm going to wander off topic. Back in 2005 a friend bought a new Land Rover Discovery, he had no real problems with it until he had a transmission problem towards the end of his warranty, something to do with the transfer box. In it went and they lent him another Discovery while his was repaired. 

 

This was his company car, he ran his own business, and the first thing he noticed about the loan car was that is was doing a lot more to the gallon, On steady motorway trips he was averaging 34mpg and he'd seen higher if he kept to 55-60mph. His own Disco was averaging 20-22mpg on the motorway and less round town.

 

When he went to pick his own car up he mentioned this to the service manager who promptly asked the mechanic to check the software. They found it was an early version and that it should have been updated during the PDI process but wasn't. Nor was it checked at any of the services they'd carried out. Ten minutes later and he's up to date and sees an immediate improvement in MPG.    

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larryblag

PicsArt_06-16-03.56.24.jpg

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