Jump to content
Tel

Dead end?

Recommended Posts

Tonyj

I’m getting skates and big braces so I can hook onto andy

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Bart Stilgo

Vacuum

Didn't that make an appearance as the motive force some long time ago!

Share this post


Link to post
Rocker66
54 minutes ago, Tonyj said:

I’m getting skates and big braces so I can hook onto andy

In which case Andy would risk getting done for being overloaded 😂😂

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Tex

I love these discussions. Mostly because I always learn something new. The biggest problem I can see with electric vehicles is only folks who have a drive big enough to house all the family cars can charge them overnight. The biggest advantage of electric vehicles is in the cities and that’s where most of the people live in flats!

 

I love those little electric scooters that run around Berlin and told my son he should consider one. “Cool” he said “But who’s going to carry it up six flights of stairs so I can charge it up?”.

 

On the way to Norfolk we stopped at Stanstead Services (for a coffee only as neither of our old fashioned motorcycles needed refuelling). They have two electric charging points (and picnic tables for the drivers to sit while their cat I’d topping up) which are always in use. And there’s normally a queue of three or four cars waiting for their turn. It could take hours! Welcome to the future (and you’re very welcome to it!) but IC will see me out. Thankfully. :niceone:

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Tonyj

Don’t be a nay sayers tex :0) it’s nly money that’s stopping us from saving the planet . Let’s see how much good it’ll do when we are booloxed. Hope mr Rothschild/Mittal . Name your illuminati of choice is reading this :0))). Probably not . Most likely having a swan sandwich .  I’ll admit I hope we get some idea what to do .

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
MikeBike
6 hours ago, Andy m said:

Indeed, trolley buses that hold their breath between stops. What I think we will see from the old systems is the generator car. Bradford had a truck (AEC Mammoth IIRC) with a generator set in the back that went out when the wires came down or the driver got a bus with a fifteen foot pole, sixteen feet from the nearest wire. Connect the truck to the trolley and there was enough power for recovery. A load of copper bars and exotic metal bits in every bus stop is bound to attract thieves, vandals and act as a magnet ( :D ) to anyone who's going to crash. They should be linked so if the bus can't take on enough charge to get to the next available point it won't go on, but we always end up with physical solution.

 

They'd also find automation of the driving a lot easier if they'd fit a couple of rails to take care of the steering, but that involves planning which is expensive.

 

Personally I intend to invest in roller skates and a huge magnet. The transformer coils in each of the 84 bus stops in the last two miles of my journey home should provide for free and timetable independent locomotion.

 

Andy

 

So the future goods vehicle could collect its electricity as it travels around, also have some rails to take care of the steering. Maybe also sharing one power unit and collecting up several 'trailers' to move from one end of the country to another would be a good idea. The could also be synchronised to avoid queues developing. Hey we're getting somewhere here...

Something like this maybe?

00a586f5cb58b43f77ccb263e88a341a--britis

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Rocker66
17 minutes ago, MikeBike said:

 

So the future goods vehicle could collect its electricity as it travels around, also have some rails to take care of the steering. Maybe also sharing one power unit and collecting up several 'trailers' to move from one end of the country to another would be a good idea. The could also be synchronised to avoid queues developing. Hey we're getting somewhere here...

Something like this maybe?

00a586f5cb58b43f77ccb263e88a341a--britis

 

One power unit could pull several goods carrying units thus replacing the need for so many road  using  freight carriers and all operated by one  person. What a great idea it’s a wonder nobody had thought of that before.😂😂

Share this post


Link to post
kayz1

ang on a mo! i better ask mate mate next door name of Beeching:muttley:

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Hickky
9 hours ago, Bart Stilgo said:

Vacuum

Didn't that make an appearance as the motive force some long time ago!

Some Victorian thought he could use a vacuum to power people in a tube across the Atlantic! Just like the tubes in a department store that were used to go to a central cashier, return your change and (very early memory here, the late 1950s) your receipt, complete with a 2d stamp attached! It had insufficient finance unsurpriseingly.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Andy m

Railways need automation to be as efficient as road transport. When Ford at Saarlouis load four train loads a day, one each for Spain, France, Southern Germany and Turkey on their own siding it works. When Amazon truck it to the rail head, transfer, repeat at the other end, drop a partial load half way, transfer twice to get onto the street delivery vehicle it doesn't. Ford have to send four trains a day as otherwise the factory fills it's storage space, the railway can predict this. When Thunderbird Island toys go viral Amazon can hire agency drivers and send truck loads. Mr commuter will have to queue a bit more. The railway won't delay the London Glasgow express to get an extra freight train in. Your own fleet is a cost, railway companies bill you. When your own fleet breaks or loses stuff you sort it out, you fight the railway company. 

 

Andy

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Tex
8 hours ago, Tonyj said:

Don’t be a nay sayers tex

 

Not really a naysayer, chum. I don’t think so, anyway. I just struggle to see how it’s all going to work in practice. The freedom to travel was once the exclusive preserve of the rich and the masses aren’t going to see those days returned without a fight. And, human nature being what it is, everyone wants the ‘other bloke’ to make the sacrifices.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Ciaran1602

I don’t see it being such a challenge provided technology can catch up. We’ve already got electric cars that will do 300 miles to a charge, such as Teslas, similarly we’ve got a range of more affordable electric cars like the Corsa and Peugeot 208 coming that will be much more palatable and can do 200 miles row to a charge. Having driven my parents electric vehicles they’re infinitely enjoyable and comfortable things to wizz around in. I saw an article recently where a motorway service station company is setting up electric only services with some 20/30 electric charging points which will charge current gen batteries to 80/90% in approximately 30 minutes. Like Tex says the ‘charging at the street’ is much the issue but it’s not insurmountable. In theory I could park my car in our nearest big car park while I go shopping, pay them the fiver in parking and charge my car for the week as the leccy is free. Some councils were considering putting electric car charging points on lampposts at one point. 

 

The only problem that really puts me off is battery useful life and residual values. Current tech batteries only last 8 to 10 years and cost thousands to replace; how eco friendly really is it to then have to buy another exotic metal battery or even a new car? How expensive is it? Electric cars plummet in value and with good reason; their shelf life is infinitely shorter than an ICE motor. At the moment  

 

Plus there was an article somewhere that reckoned the sheer carbon footprint of producing an electric car cause of the exotic metals used is roughly equivalent to the carbon footprint of a diesel hatchback for its entire working life. 

 

Truthfully I wonder whether hydrogen is the future but that the technology just isn’t there yet. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
slowboy

I'm going to buy a tractor, beggar all to tax and insure, will still be allowed diesel for it, or even run it of any old oil if I get a "classic" one😁. I can probably claim some sort of subsidy if I set myself up as a (very small) farm, and I can still go touring, taking it around UK cities in a sort of tribute tour to those who share our small roads with their juggernaut caravans in the summer.😎

Or a Traction engine, nothing to tax, beggar all to insure, and run it on coal and water.

What could possibly go wrong.😈

 

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Tonyj

I might go down the horse and cart route myself , the trendies will lap it up “ yar he’s an artisan “ then when I’m late they will be all over Twitter and Facebook giving my horse a shit rating because I’m not there on the hour dot . There’s a sniff of hypocrisy about the way it’s rolling out . Not denying fossil fuel is going but like tex says it’s for some one else to sacrifice. Just read this morning that an Indian billionaire is digging up coal in Australia which might not even recoup investors outlay . They don’t give a shit about the economy or pollution.  As the great man Fraser off dads army would say “ we’re doomed I say we’re doomed”. Morning,chin up

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Griff

I think all of us on this forum are to some degree doing our bit for the "green" thing. After all our NC Motors are one of the greenest around at the moment and have some of the lowest emissions of any current motorcycles. This was something that I very much was aware of when I retired in 2013. I like to ride a frequently during the week to ensure that any remaining skills on the bike that I have, are kept up to date. However I don't need the associated petrol consumption that could possibly come with such a practice. That certainly coloured my decision to purchase my former NC700X in 2012 and my current X-Adv. My little CRF250L is also doing its bit in that regard. 

 

Another green device to be considered is the E-bicycle.  As a former avid cyclist I have  been trying to get back into cycling in countryside that is hard on the legs with wall to wall hills everywhere. I had stopped almost 20 years ago but at age 68 (plus the hills) I was struggling to get back into it. Then a friend stuck an E-bicycle under my nose. After some reluctance I took the bait. After only a couple of weeks I am already up to 60km trips locally and even then only using only 50% of the assist available.  Something else to consider and debate :D

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Rocker66
4 hours ago, Andy m said:

The railway won't delay the London Glasgow express to get an extra freight train in.

 

Andy

They wouldn’t have to as the freight would be on the slow line whilst the express goes past on the fast line allowing both to proceed at their normal. Speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Trev

Like Tex, I enjoy reading posts like this on this wonderful forum, always something to learn, varied opinions and (almost :D) always civil and open debate. As one of the few EV owners on the forum, this time I may even be able to add to the collective knowledge and understanding of the topic ..... maybe :whistle:

 

I have to admit to a wry smile regarding some of the comments and 'concerns';

 

For sure infrastructure will keep pace with take up of EV, the two are inextricably linked

 

Range is almost always the first issue raised whereas, in reality, by far the largest majority of car trips are within the range of already available EV's. The reality is that most people don't actually bother to put much thought into how often they actually do a 100+ mile round trip because, right now, they don't have to. The new generation coming onto the market now will make range even less of an issue.

 

Talk of EV being something of a luxury that only some can afford seems a little out of place on a forum where many (most?) of the bikes owned are a pure 'luxury'.

 

Even more so is the 'concern' at perhaps an EV only lasting 8 - 10 years before it would  need too be changed. C'mon peeps, from what I see most of you change bikes more often than Top Gear changes presenters :D As we all know, the least eco thing about motoring or biking is buying a brand new vehicle so please don't go all holier than though on me about this point, keeping something 8 years would seem the definition of hell for NC forum users :devil::whistle:

 

Anyhoo, I'm sure it will fine, in a few years time you'll all be enjoying the benefits of cleaner air and quieter environment and those of us who have gone EV can revel in the improved performance and ease of use

 

.......................I will still have something big, blue and gurgly in the garage though for the odd outing :whistle:

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Rocker66
35 minutes ago, Trev said:

Like Tex, I enjoy reading posts like this on this wonderful forum, always something to learn, varied opinions and (almost :D) always civil and open debate. As one of the few EV owners on the forum, this time I may even be able to add to the collective knowledge and understanding of the topic ..... maybe :whistle:

 

I have to admit to a wry smile regarding some of the comments and 'concerns';

 

For sure infrastructure will keep pace with take up of EV, the two are inextricably linked

 

Range is almost always the first issue raised whereas, in reality, by far the largest majority of car trips are within the range of already available EV's. The reality is that most people don't actually bother to put much thought into how often they actually do a 100+ mile round trip because, right now, they don't have to. The new generation coming onto the market now will make range even less of an issue.

 

Talk of EV being something of a luxury that only some can afford seems a little out of place on a forum where many (most?) of the bikes owned are a pure 'luxury'.

 

Even more so is the 'concern' at perhaps an EV only lasting 8 - 10 years before it would  need too be changed. C'mon peeps, from what I see most of you change bikes more often than Top Gear changes presenters :D As we all know, the least eco thing about motoring or biking is buying a brand new vehicle so please don't go all holier than though on me about this point, keeping something 8 years would seem the definition of hell for NC forum users :devil::whistle:

 

Anyhoo, I'm sure it will fine, in a few years time you'll all be enjoying the benefits of cleaner air and quieter environment and those of us who have gone EV can revel in the improved performance and ease of use

 

.......................I will still have something big, blue and gurgly in the garage though for the odd outing :whistle:

 

Now all we need is a green way of generating sufficient electricity. We are already having to lay cables from Norway to supply us with a Hydroelectric generated power. We have a  transformer station locally where we exchange power with France and who knows what will happen with that after October 31st.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
slowboy

As ever Trev, you're hitting a number of nails on the head.

I think the performance of EVs at the moment is for enhanced market penetration, 'cause many of us like the idea of being able to go fast, even if in truth we rarely do. There are lower speed limits and closer monitoring in the pipeline, and this, coupled with speed limiting devices will actually noticeably increase range without notable technology change. My big old Volvo reads the road speed signs pretty reliably, it's only a small software tweak from there to auto limiting.

I have also noticed lately, on my longer jaunts on the C90 (one 1000 mile weekend already this year) and the CRF 250, that the average traffic speed on A and B roads seems to be dropping. It used to be the C90 at 45mph was either holding up and/or being passed by most traffic. Lately I've noticed I tend to be keeping up with the flow at 40 or even 35 on the C90 and doing a lot more passing on the CRF. Some of that is probably down to traffic density, but not all by any means. I think people have gotten used to going slower, because of the density in their normal routes, and are less inclined to speed up much when not 'held back'.

Maybe range will be less of an issue as a result.

Just a thought and a feeling rather than a scientific study, but I have definitely perceived a difference.

And we'll adapt as well, with different approaches to travel, although I suspect some of the more out of the way places will be less visited as a result.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose, as we won't be saying soon😉

I still think my C90 and CRF will see me out though😎

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery
1 hour ago, slowboy said:

I have also noticed lately, on my longer jaunts on the C90 (one 1000 mile weekend already this year) and the CRF 250, that the average traffic speed on A and B roads seems to be dropping. It used to be the C90 at 45mph was either holding up and/or being passed by most traffic. Lately I've noticed I tend to be keeping up with the flow at 40 or even 35 on the C90 and doing a lot more passing on the CRF. Some of that is probably down to traffic density, but not all by any means.

 

Yes!  I agree - people seem to be driving more slowly.  Lots of times I come across people travelling at 45 mph in a 50 or 60 limit.  Many are female, but by no means all.  It seems like 45 mph is a "comfortable" or "natural" speed for an increasing number of people.

 

Personally I hate it - I find it intensely frustrating, especially as overtaking is often difficult and/or dangerous on today's crowded roads.  I almost always travel at, or above, the posted speed limit, hence my frustration.  Obviously my frustration cannot be morally justified, but it's real, nonetheless.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Tel
Posted (edited)
On 08/07/2019 at 09:18, SteveThackery said:

 

Difficult to store; no existing transport infrastructure (unlike electricity); most of it is made from natural gas at the moment, so it isn't carbon-neutral, and electrolysis is not as efficient as you'd think; hydrogen fuel cells have a limited life.

 

None of these are insurmountable, of course, but they tilt the economic argument towards batteries.

 

This is a great article:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle

 

 

Are you sure about the existing electricity infrastructure? If more people go electric how will the grid cope? It won't [however that  power is produced]. Also, nobody mentions the security and safety implications in all your pronouncements; city dwellers cannot park in the road outside their homes and connect to the domestic or public power without scum intervening and silent cars/vehicles are a menace anywhere but especially in busy city environments, particularly when over half the people on the planet can't now walk along the street without being connected by headphones to music or to other sad cases who can't cope with being alone with themselves anymore! 

 

Edited by Tel
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
baben
Posted (edited)

There really does seem to be a 40 mph mentality developing in car drivers. On the bike it doesn't worry me - I just nip past, but when I am in the car it can be very frustrating. Mind you, my own driving speed is directly affected by the speed limiter installed in the front passenger seat. I am a lot quicker when I am on my own and especially when I am in the little i10 which is like a motorised roller skate!

Edited by baben

Share this post


Link to post
Tonyj

More in line of Steve’s post . Traveling along the M20 today and a woman going 42/45 in the reduced speed lane which is 50 ffs . So you’ve got foreign lorries all over you and they ain’t getting tickets. Mind you Indian bloke straight down the on ramp , I’m in lane 2 cuts across the front of me half a car length (7foot) floors it upto the camera then must have realised why no one else is going 70 and brakes like he’s doing an emergency stop ? . At this point I changed lanes and went past him . Not even increasing my speed from 50 . Absolute joke both of them . Neither would have a license if I was old bill.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Rocker66
33 minutes ago, Tonyj said:

More in line of Steve’s post . Traveling along the M20 today and a woman going 42/45 in the reduced speed lane which is 50 ffs . So you’ve got foreign lorries all over you and they ain’t getting tickets. Mind you Indian bloke straight down the on ramp , I’m in lane 2 cuts across the front of me half a car length (7foot) floors it upto the camera then must have realised why no one else is going 70 and brakes like he’s doing an emergency stop ? . At this point I changed lanes and went past him . Not even increasing my speed from 50 . Absolute joke both of them . Neither would have a license if I was old bill.

But then if you were old Bill you probably wouldn’t be out there to see them.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
slowboy
2 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Yes!  I agree - people seem to be driving more slowly.  Lots of times I come across people travelling at 45 mph in a 50 or 60 limit.  Many are female, but by no means all.  It seems like 45 mph is a "comfortable" or "natural" speed for an increasing number of people.

 

Personally I hate it - I find it intensely frustrating, especially as overtaking is often difficult and/or dangerous on today's crowded roads.  I almost always travel at, or above, the posted speed limit, hence my frustration.  Obviously my frustration cannot be morally justified, but it's real, nonetheless.

 

I don't find it bothers me much, but I think I've calmed down a fair bit since I've left the world of deadlines and meetings. 🏖🏕

The CRF passes stuff fine and even the C90 has been known to get a pass in if the environmental contentions are favourable.🤡

And the car has just under 300bhp, so it quite nippy in a gentlemanly sort of way.😈

(Well I have to have one stupid thing😎)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×