Jump to content
Integrator

BoosterPlug experience..?

Recommended Posts

Integrator

Anyone with Boosterplug experience on DCT models.?

 

I’m commuting 140 km’s every Day all year.. and missing a little more/better throttle respons at low speed..

due to the emmision standards the bike is running very lean..

 

I’ve found the booster plug for the NC series..: boosterpluginstallationhondancctx700750s

- Anyone made the installation..?? 

- Is it working as intended..??

- how has it affected your consumption??

 

I know my 5 year Honda warranties is lost.. :afro:

but that’s ok since the bike is from 12 and I’ve passed 100.000 Km’s

 

tight chain!

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Tex

 

3 hours ago, Integrator said:

due to the emmision standards the bike is running very lean..

 

Is it? How do you know? Have you had a Dyno run done to check your assumption?

 

There’s a ton of misinformation bandied about emissions laws and whatever. And fitting a device to ‘fool’ the ECU into thinking the engine is colder than it is most certainly isn’t the answer.

 

If your bike is a 2012 then it’s only a Euro 3 or even earlier.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Integrator

Ehhh.??. Thank you for the input... but..

I’m Well aware of the emission bits.. As Well as many others who have bikes under the EU emission rules..

All bikes are running to the lean side.. no question about that. :ermm:

 

- But the question was if anyone have tried this.. or maybe any other kind of chipping on the NC’s..? :D:D:D

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Tex

Where’s Eembee when we need him? ;) 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Defender
1 hour ago, Tex said:

Where’s Eembee when we need him? ;) 

Removing the boosterplug from his Integra!

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Defender
19 hours ago, Tex said:

 

 

Is it? How do you know? Have you had a Dyno run done to check your assumption?

 

There’s a ton of misinformation bandied about emissions laws and whatever. And fitting a device to ‘fool’ the ECU into thinking the engine is colder than it is most certainly isn’t the answer.

 

If your bike is a 2012 then it’s only a Euro 3 or even earlier.

 

I'm pretty sure they're all Euro 3?

It's certainly/currently London ULEZ compliant.

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery
21 hours ago, Integrator said:

 

I’m Well aware of the emission bits.. As Well as many others who have bikes under the EU emission rules..

All bikes are running to the lean side.. no question about that. :ermm:

 

They aren't.  All bikes are running very close to stoichiometric, except when they are at very high revs or high loads, when they run slightly rich.  Lean running doesn't help - see this graph:

 

image.png.a9095b76b2c4be5410760b44669eb627.png

 

As you can see, reduction of nitrogen oxides requires a mixture close to stoichiometric, and leaning out causes a rapid rise in NOx, even with the catalytic converter.  Also see the post-catalyst lines from HC and CO - both remain flat as you weaken out the mixture, so there is no incentive to run the engine lean.

 

It has been argued that the three-way catalytic converter - which is required to reduce NOx - makes global warming worse because it causes an *increase* in CO2 emissions due to the necessity to run at stoichiometric, rather than lean, increasing fuel consumption.

 

Note that all engines are taken away from stoichiometric for some of the time, but on motorcycles it's almost invariably only at high engine speeds and loads.

 

21 hours ago, Integrator said:

- But the question was if anyone have tried this.. or maybe any other kind of chipping on the NC’s..? :D:D:D

 

No, I don't think anyone has bothered for the NC - hardly worth it!  :)

 

3 hours ago, Defender said:

I'm pretty sure they're all Euro 3?

It's certainly/currently London ULEZ compliant.

 

They are all Euro 3, except for the later ones which are Euro 4.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery
32 minutes ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Lean running doesn't help...

 

Just to be clear, I mean that lean running doesn't help reduce emissions when you are trying to reduce NOx - it makes it worse, so it's not right to say emission controls result in lean-running engines.  That was only true pre-1993 when the three-way cat was introduced in the UK (for cars).  These days lean running is only used to improve fuel economy, and only for some of the time (I suspect never on bikes, as fuel economy isn't normally a factor in sales).

 

Having said all that, the optimum mixture for performance is richer than stoichiometric, so there is still a slight performance gain to be had by bodging the engine to run richer.  Just don't think that bikes currently run lean - they don't, they run stoichiometric much of the time.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery

Sorry - I keep thinking of things to write!  

 

I'm with Tex on an important point: if you can't see it on instrumentation, then it doesn't exist.  If Boosterplug don't publish a before-and-after dyno run for the NC, then you've simply no idea whether it makes any difference, and you can (and should) assume it doesn't.

 

Subjective reports ("It's smoother", "It's faster"), marketing material ("Up to 5% power boost!") and all other such sources are not worth a crap.  Hard data is the only thing that matters.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Andy m

But Steve, a mate of a bloke down the Triumph club says he knew a bloke with an Enfield that felt much better with one and the spark plug colour had changed from light brown to tan 😁😁😁

 

It's all about the feeling of lost control now a black box does what the mixture screw used to. Needs a phscycologists not an engineer to explain it. 

 

Andy

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery
1 hour ago, Andy m said:

 

It's all about the feeling of lost control now a black box does what the mixture screw used to. Needs a phscycologists not an engineer to explain it. 

 

 

Actually that's spot on!  

 

I'm going to change my advice to Henry: if you believe it will make a difference, then you will feel a difference, so buy one.

 

In all seriosity, it still might.  Running richer than stoichiometric might, in theory, release an extra horsepower.  Maybe.  It will also mess affect your fuel economy.  Personally I wouldn't bother.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
tw586

The Nc is also fitted with an O2 sensor, so any modification to alter the fuel map will result in the ECU correcting the mixture back to the programmed map. I however unsure  if that adaptive strategy is stored or reset with the ignition cycle  

Share this post


Link to post
Integrator
Posted (edited)

Holy moly...! :D:D:D (Walter Matthau quote in Grumpy old men :D

My best advice in this wonderful forum...  

Don’t go away from the screen, people will put stuff in your mouth.. you’re never intended to, mean or say.. :blink:

 

thank you for the Lambda graph, QI for sure..!

 

IF someone actually have tried the B.plug in this forum.. my next question would be.:

Ta..daa..! 

- Do you Have any numbers, graphs or Dyno runs to back it up..?

(but I never got around to ask that, did I..! )

 

Based on my question, some of you assuming I suddenly believe, -  a chip could improve several years job of 20 Honda engineers..?

I don’t think so..

I was simply asking a question about if anyone, HAD made a chipping..?

and not about what anyone thinks about chipping.!

 

But thank you all for your input.. :D

I’m sure after this... No one who actually has chipped their NC’s, don’t dare mentioning it in this string.. :D

 

have a nice summer

and maybe We’ll meet at the AceCafe, on my way to Holyhead a Saturday in August.

Edited by Integrator
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery
1 hour ago, tw586 said:

The Nc is also fitted with an O2 sensor, so any modification to alter the fuel map will result in the ECU correcting the mixture back to the programmed map. I however unsure  if that adaptive strategy is stored or reset with the ignition cycle  

 

Good point, I forgot about that.  You'll need to disconnect it, which will put light the MIL lamp, unless the ECU is spoofable with a resistor.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Integrator said:

 

Based on my question, some of you assuming I suddenly believe, -  a chip could improve several years job of 20 Honda engineers..?

I don’t think so..

 

 

 

Well, actually, as I said earlier, you probably could.  Those 20 Honda engineers had to make the bike comply with Euro 3/4, whereas you can choose to ignore that.  Running slightly richer will probably release a tiny amount more power.  Whether you'd notice it is another discussion.....

 

This is actually the bit I reacted to: 

On 7/20/2019 at 22:29, Integrator said:

Ehhh.??. Thank you for the input... but..

I’m Well aware of the emission bits.. As Well as many others who have bikes under the EU emission rules..

All bikes are running to the lean side.. no question about that. :ermm:

 

That was quite a strong assertion for saying it's wrong, hence my rather lengthy essay!  :)

 

Anyway, you can probably assume that none of our regular contributors have tried the booster plug, although the topic does come up occasionally.  Also, it's probably not practical to improve the performance in the more traditional ways - long duration cams, head work, etc.  There seem to be no "real" performance accessories available for the NC engine.

Edited by SteveThackery
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
ncx19
Posted (edited)

Ive used a boosterplug on 2 different BMW R1200Cs.  Before the 2 spark model, they had a known lean condition that caused surging and stalling.

It worked beautifully.  They also had an O2 sensor and the trim tables did not tune out the boosterplug's effect.

 

On my NC I cant say I have a problem, so wouldn't want to change anything.

However, this is an inexpensive mod - and would encourage you to try it and report your results,

 

Edited by ncx19
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
listener

I tried to improve my bike's performance by putting a crushed Viagra tablet in the petrol.

It didn't make the bike any faster but now I can pull monster wheelies! :banana:

 

 

Most of these 'chip tuner' things are pure snake oil.

Any 'improvement' they provide will be nigh on unnoticeable in real world terms, or it will be at the cost of some other aspect of the machine (or your wallet).

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Andy m

The website gives a hint as to how it works. It adds to a temperature setting, so the equivalent of running with the "choke" lever on on a carbed bike. 

 

If I wanted to sacrifice economy for speed and noise, I think I might just go for a more certain route, trade it for a more conventional bike. It'd cost more than a £135 gadget, silencer and air filter, but easier to explain to the sewer ants and comes with built in hard facts. 

 

I think Henry's options may be more limited by insane import taxes on bikes? 

 

Andy

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Integrator

Thank you all .. :D

 

Now.. get out biking.. :hyper::hyper::hyper:

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
SteveThackery
30 minutes ago, Andy m said:

The website gives a hint as to how it works. It adds to a temperature setting, so the equivalent of running with the "choke" lever on on a carbed bike. 

 

Exactly: it makes the engine report "cooler" than it really is, so the ECU richens to compensate.  The thing is, significant or prolonged enrichment requires the bike to run open-loop (unless it has a wideband lambda sensor) so I don't think the ECU will sustain that richer mixture over any length of time.

 

Anyway, we won't know until we've seen the dyno curves!  ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
rjp996

my bike always runs smoother after I wash it (so once every year, just before the MOT :-)

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
arengle
Posted (edited)

will work for the region idle to 200rpm, will get rid of that sharp jump in power, so you will be get a more linear output in that region. but will work only for a week or 2 until ecu using the o2 sensor will figure out the difference and will compensate back, in this moment you will probably get a lost in power at higher revs. to go over this issues you will need to rest the ecu on regular basis. personal advice don't bother and spend the money on fuel to use to practice on controlling the bike at low speed using gas, clutch and rear brake, and you will discover that you have no need for this booster.

Edited by arengle

Share this post


Link to post
Tonyj

In answer to the question. No I don’t  have any experience with the booster plug . If you decide to purchase one let us know your experience. Make you feel better   :0)

Share this post


Link to post
neil700

I went the conventional route and stuck on an Akropovic exhaust and a DNA air filter . Fuel consumption seemed to improve and the performance even more so. Not a cheap option but made my NC way more flexible especially in 6th. Completely happy

Share this post


Link to post
embee

All of the above.

 

OK, so the Boosterplug is as Andy says a tweak to the air temperature signal. How the engine reacts to this depends a lot on how the calibration and algorithms work in the ECU. If as they claim it results in typically a 3% base enrichment, the effect it will have at low speed/light load will depend on how the lean-going and rich-going ramps in the feedback operate. Very often when the correction in the feedback reverses (the ECU senses the change in voltage from the lambda/O2 sensor) there is a step plus a ramp, so if for example it is on the rich side it will step down the fuelling by a fixed amount then ramp down further until it reaches the lean side reversal point. The steps and ramps can be different in each direction, and can be altered by various other factors (speed/load etc). Adding essentially 3% fuel to what the ECU is calibrated for will mean it will be running in the lean-going phase more of the time, so may behave a bit differently.

If the calibrations and transient features result in excessive lean excursions it can make it feel a bit unresponsive. Transients can be tricky to get right, it involves "predicting" when the air gets to the cylinder and trying to deliver fuel at the right time, and this depends on speed/load and how the load is "measured" (speed/density/throttle angle/rate of change etc). There is a delay between opening the throttle and the engine cycle getting more air, and you don't want to put fuel in when the air hasn't yet got to the cylinders but you don't want it to be too late otherwise you can get a misfire/hesitation etc.

Now, this may be the case for the original calibration for emission compliance reasons, rich excursions on transients invariably result in very big HC/CO spikes so tend to be avoided. Lean excursions will, as Steve says, result in NOx spikes but at low speed/light load the absolute values of NOx mass emissions are low so that may not be a big issue for compliance/certification.

The first thing to do is make sure your engine is actually running at its optimum. Check valve clearances, renew the plugs if they are beyond 50k kms. Run it on some "super" 97/98RON fuel for a couple of tanks (helps clean any deposits from injectors) or use some proprietary injector cleaner in the recommended dosage (it can help with small deposit loading). Use an original air filter.

If it's a DCT then do a clutch initialisation, it's free and will determine how well the take up works away from standstill so significant for feel.

 

If all the above fail to get it working to your satisfaction, then by all means try an aftermarket add-on, but get it working at its best first.

 

I find my 700 Integra runs absolutely fine on std filters/exhaust etc, but you may find different.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×