I think my NC might be terminal - total loss of power

[ChrisCB 6,653]

Cylinder leakage testing is the norm these days.

[jeremyr62 2,538]

1 hour ago, Chris750 said:

Cylinder leakage testing is the norm these days.

Yes, but it's nowhere near as easy as a compression test.

[Tonyj 6,907]

Sorry if this has already been covered but is the fuel good or should I say a known factor . Some years ago we went into a main garage on he A11 and filled up and 3 of the 7 bikes developed a problem. Misfires and wouldn’t run . 
they had either water or contaminated fuel . It didn’t help as they broke over a distance , not straight away .  Obviously ignore this if already covered .

Edited November 23, 2019 by Tonyj

[ChrisCB 6,653]

7 hours ago, jeremyr62 said:

Yes, but it's nowhere near as easy as a compression 

True but you may as well just put your thumb over the plug hole.

[ChrisCB 6,653]

1 hour ago, Tonyj said:

Sorry if this has already been covered but is the fuel good or should I say a known factor.

As in post #2.

 

Had a 700 Tracer in this week with running problems/poor performance, tank drain revealed half full of diesel.

[Mr Toad 9,022]

17 hours ago, Grumpy old man said:

The difference between me and the techies in the shop is, they have the gear, tools ,diagnostic equipment,  back up, spare parts to hand for elimination and they are spending some one else's money+ I  sometimes doubt they know what they are doing that's why we get terrible feedback about them. I'll keep biking as long as I can but maybe with just one bike and I think that could be the Crf.

Come on OP put that vid up.

 

Don't be fooled by all that gear, they have enough 'gear' to cover every job on every model of bike they might need to work on.  

 

Each job only uses a fraction of the tools they have and most jobs use a core set of a few tools.  All that diagnostic equipment does is simplify the error codes the bike puts out and turn them into human readable format so that they don't have to remember that 6 short, 2 long and 3 short flashes means squirrels have chewed through the plug lead.

 

Like Brian I have few tools compared to what a dealer carries and it's enough. Just like Brian if I need something I haven't got I buy a single of what I need. My last purchase was a large socket to remove the front sprocket from the Bonneville. I had the size either side of the one I needed but for some reason not the right size so I bought one.

 

I've been doing this for years and it's how my tools built up. Some only get used once, I bought one to remove the nut holding steering wheel on to an MG that has never been used since, but for what they cost compared to what they saved me makes them worth it.   

[Mr Toad 9,022]

12 hours ago, Grumpy old man said:

Now that would be great and we/I  would learn a lot.

As for the mechanical things I don't have a problem, I  checked the valves on the CRF  last Friday, it took about 11/4 hours (all in spec) but electrics frighten me😨 perhaps once retired and time isn't the same problem I'll learn more.

 

Thanks all for the encouragement 

Lloyd 

 

Electrickery is nothing to be frightened of. Basically it's either on or off and some things have changing resistance that raises and lowers the levels of on and offness.  

[Tonyj 6,907]

21 minutes ago, Chris750 said:

As in post #2.

 

Had a 700 Tracer in this week with running problems/poor performance, tank drain revealed half full of diesel.

Basically that is what I meant . Did t realise it was on post 2 :0) .. my friends emptied the Jerry can into my road bike , the ones we use on the dirt bikes :0(  . They where just using it up and my bike ran shit all the way home from France . 
just to put the cherry on the cake I had it serviced and cleaned the filters out . Then promptly filled it with diesel at a petrol station the first time I used it , ha ha ha how we laughed . I almost cried :0)

[Andy m 23,473]

2 hours ago, Chris750 said:

As in post #2.

 

Had a 700 Tracer in this week with running problems/poor performance, tank drain revealed half full of diesel.

 

I keep telling the wife, that's how you get the MPG up 🤔😁😁😊

 

Andy

[ChrisCB 6,653]

1 minute ago, Andy m said:

 

I keep telling the wife, that's how you get the MPG up 🤔😁😁😊

 

Andy

And the repair bills 🙄

[jeremyr62 2,538]

Diesel in the fuel makes bikes smoke like a chimney. I once spent half a day trying to work out why my pride and joy suddenly looked like Concorde on its first flight. Eventually I remembered I had put in two litres of diesel by mistake. As far as I can tell the diesel just doesn't combust, it just spews out of the exhaust as a fine white smoke (so not like Concorde really). It ran OK though.

[motorbykcourier 293]

On 23/11/2019 at 05:55, Tonyj said:

Sorry if this has already been covered but is the fuel good or should I say a known factor . Some years ago we went into a main garage on he A11 and filled up and 3 of the 7 bikes developed a problem. Misfires and wouldn’t run . 
they had either water or contaminated fuel . It didn’t help as they broke over a distance , not straight away .  Obviously ignore this if already covered .

Think I've must have filled up at the same fuel station - never again !

 

PS. I still think this is a fuel filter clogged issue plus pump.

You won't get a code to say so,  because its just like running out of fuel.

[pmjones79 27]

I hope you have all had a lovely Christmas.

So many amazing people on here suggesting things to try.

An update of where I am with my poor NC700X.

I have carried out a test on the ignition coils and spark plugs. All ok.

I have finally carried out compression tests on both cylinders. All ok.

I have replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, injectors and fuel. All ok.

Unfortunately, the problem is still there.

The bike lets me start it.

It idles fine.

Changes into 1st fine.

When releasing the clutch the revs are there but incredibly poor power. I cam stop the bike by putting my feet on the ground. Even when still accelerating.

I have had a few suggestions of the clutch going. I have had clutches replaced on two cars but never on a bike. I don't know if the diagnosis is the same. My lever and changes seem fine, just no (or very little) power when releasing the clutch lever.

I really don't know what else to try. I can't afford the prices in a garage.

[Tex 36,816]

Thanks for the update. And sorry to hear that you’re still struggling.  

 

Yes, it is beginning to sound as though your clutch is slipping. A very simple test for that is to engage 2nd gear, apply either brake quite hard, roll on the throttle to bring the revs up to around 3,000 then slowly let the clutch out.  If the clutch is good the engine will stall (cut out). If the engine continues running and the bike doesn’t move then it’s the clutch. If the clutch is really shot you can even repeat the above test in first gear. 

[Graham NZ 1,186]

Peter, when the clutch lever is 'home' is there some free-play before tension is felt?  there should be something like 2 or 3mm where the lever abuts the stop.  I don't know how the cable operates on a manual NC but on many bikes there is a primary adjustment which affects when the clutch starts to dis-engage.  If that is too tight the clutch can be made to slip even if there is nothing wrong with the clutch itself.

[Grumpy old man 4,670]

Hi , also check free play on the engine end of the clutch cable if it is the clutch then it could be the cable not allowing the clutch to go fully home. Just a thought, have you been changing the oil, the wrong oil could give you clutch issues. 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

Your reluctance to make a simple video of the problem happening is making it much harder for us.  Haven't you got a mate who can hold your phone while you demonstrate pulling away from standstill?  Stick it on YouTube and it'll help enormously.

[embee 7,288]

I'm still not sure whether we are considering an engine which doesn't produce any power (as per the description) or a bike which doesn't move because the clutch is slipping.

[commuter 262]

OK, you have a good spark. As Andy says, the next logical step is fuel. Fuel wont burn if there's poor compression so check that both cylinders are the same. Both inlet valves dont burn out at the same time and both pistons dont break rings at the same time.  Same compression on both cylinders then tells you that you have more direct issues with the fuel. take all the fuel out and try a sample in the lawn mower to see if it works ok. Check the fuel filter, you hear the pump cut in and cut out which implies you have good pressure. did someone somehow bypass the filter and you have blocked injectors? Has the air filter mysteriously become blocked by a passing swarm of locusts? Has someone disabled the engine fault lamp and you just have one of those faults which Honda like to charge you lots of money for one of their bods to connect your bike to a cheap diagnostic  gizmo which tells them that your bike needs a 10 pence part which needs to be imported from Japan?

[trisaki 2,029]

I assume the wheels turn freely  , ie brakes not seriously binding  ,sorry not read all the previous on goings 

[DaveM59 1,603]

On 27/12/2019 at 20:42, pmjones79 said:

The bike lets me start it.

It idles fine.

Changes into 1st fine.

When releasing the clutch the revs are there but incredibly poor power. I cam stop the bike by putting my feet on the ground. Even when still accelerating.

So it revs OK but won't pull the bike forward so it has to be clutch, assuming you mean you can rev it to the red line and still have no relative forward motion. This tends to assume the motor is running as it should it just isn't connecting with the transmission. THe only other possibility is the drive sprocket splines.

[Grumpy old man 4,670]

52 minutes ago, DaveM59 said:

So it revs OK but won't pull the bike forward so it has to be clutch, assuming you mean you can rev it to the red line and still have no relative forward motion. This tends to assume the motor is running as it should it just isn't connecting with the transmission. THe only other possibility is the drive sprocket splines.

That was my thoughts at the beginning of the thread. If the OP could put up a vid it would help. Reading the work the OP has already done would tell us he's no duck head so surely he could recognize a slipping clutch🤔.

[pmjones79 27]

Hello all,

Just to keep all you fine people in the loop.

I have ordered all the relevant clutch parts and oil.  I will hopefully be fitting them this weekend.

I have never had a clutch go in all my years of biking and I could not tell the symptoms.

I really do hope this solves my issue.

Yes, I will feel stupid but also relieved. I have performed some checks and tests I have never done before during this diagnosis. I have bought some kit that I will use forever too.

I'll hopefully be letting you all know the outcome soon.

Thank you all again.

[Grumpy old man 4,670]

1 hour ago, pmjones79 said:

Hello all,

Just to keep all you fine people in the loop.

I have ordered all the relevant clutch parts and oil.  I will hopefully be fitting them this weekend.

I have never had a clutch go in all my years of biking and I could not tell the symptoms.

I really do hope this solves my issue.

Yes, I will feel stupid but also relieved. I have performed some checks and tests I have never done before during this diagnosis. I have bought some kit that I will use forever too.

I'll hopefully be letting you all know the outcome soon.

Thank you all again.

Hi

Thanks for keeping us informed it is very useful for us all. Are you now sure it is the clutch? Great to hear the work you have done, do you enjoy it? I don't but finances dictate.

[Slowboy 20,357]

17 hours ago, pmjones79 said:

Hello all,

Just to keep all you fine people in the loop.

I have ordered all the relevant clutch parts and oil.  I will hopefully be fitting them this weekend.

I have never had a clutch go in all my years of biking and I could not tell the symptoms.

I really do hope this solves my issue.

Yes, I will feel stupid but also relieved. I have performed some checks and tests I have never done before during this diagnosis. I have bought some kit that I will use forever too.

I'll hopefully be letting you all know the outcome soon.

Thank you all again.

 

Not stupid at all, we all find things out for the first time and very often when we do it seems unfathomable and confusing because it's outside our previous experience. And don't forget your willingness to discuss it might well be useful for someone else in the same position.

Good to here your heading towards a solution.