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'13 DCT flashing '-' in D but not in S


nigelspencer

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nigelspencer

It's been a few years since I had the flashing '-' problem (the rubbish pin that Honda fitted) and now something similar has returned. If I run in D from starting it will start flashing a few times over the first 10 miles, usually when I come to a halt however it happened on the motorway this morning when it was in 5th gear. If I run in S from starting then I get no problem. Obviously the revs are higher in S but has anyone else has something similar?

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DaveM59

Sounds more like an electrical gremlin than a mechanical problem. Check and clean all the connectors particularly the ones to the dash and the one to the RH switch gear.

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What Dave said along with ....the Revs should not be higher only that the bike holds on to the gear for longer before it changes gear...so over all it

still has the same ratios ..if you no what i mean..

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Definitely sounds like electrical, and connectors are always the prime suspects in these cases. I had issues with tarnished pins in the connectors from the handlebar wiring on my 2012 Integra 700 which prevented it starting. There are connectors inside the fairings both sides which join the switchgear to the main harness, get in there and give them a close looking at, spray with contact cleaner or similar and work them in/out a few times to try to ensure a good contact. The instrument connector is a good call too.

The connectors down at the lower end, on the shift motor and the various gear position sensors are worth getting at also.

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nigelspencer

The bike is in at the Garage today and they say they can't see anything in the error log despite the problem occurring everyday last week and on the way to them this morning. Surely there must be a problem solving route that is followed based on what the customer sees and (but not in this case) the error log shows? It feels like a horrid case of deja vu!

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nigelspencer

So just off the phone from the dealer and it's a shift pin failure again, previous one was Feb 2017 and I've now about doubled the mileage to 67,000. 

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Do you think they fitted one from the old batch before Honda San fixed it?

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Sounds a bit suspicious that Lyn could be right. I've not heard of any failures of the pin since the new part number came in, basically with the 750 models.

 

At least something has been identified, although it seems odd it causes a problem in D but not S.

Edited by embee
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Could be Honda telling the dealer to not say what the real problem is so as not to put people off the model....or not:flowers:

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MikeBike

Forgive my ignorance but if it was something mechanical wouldn't there be also be a mechanical problem, like not changing gear? And why only in D? The only symptom you mention is the display. I had some display problems and solved them by removing the dash connector, spraying with connector cleaner and working in/out  afew times.

The dealer has probably just put NC700 + Dash "-" = shifter pin problem.

If you get it replaced, I'd specifically ask for the old removed pin, to prove that was actually the correct diagnosis and to have something to show in case you can get some contribution from Honda having fixed their badly made pin once before.

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outrunner

I fail to see how it can be a shift pin issue as the only thing S mode does is hang on to the gears longer before shifting up, surely it would be the same in either mode if it was a shift problem, just my opinion of course.

 

 

Andy.

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nigelspencer

a week ago I started to get the flashing '-' on the display and the bikes wouldn't change gear. It reliably did this in 'D' but from my previous experience a3 years ago I remembered that using 'S' lessened the issue to a point. I booked into the dealer to get it checked, telling them that the same pattern of problems was occurring as happened 3 years ago when it turned out to be the pin. Between booking the fix and getting it to the garage there were a few instances of it doing it when in 'S',  refusal to change gears with the paddles and doing weird shifts when accelerating (4,5,6,5,6).

 

I'll know if its all fixed when I pick it up in a couple of hours and will feedback.

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Thanks Nigel. I think you’re the first to report a repeat failure of the shift pin (although, obviously, not all owners are on this forum) so it’s a bit of a mystery. Not to mention disappointing. Looking forward to your update (and fingers crossed for a successful outcome).

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MikeBike

Re kayz1 and embee comments do you have the part number for the shifter pin fitted from an invoice to see if it was the old part number fitted last time?

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Hmm, I know that I have the updated part fitted to my 2013 bike, but it is disconcerting to read this.  Hope you have it back soon and get to the bottom of this error.

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I see this issue also related over on the other forum. The only comfort is that as far as I can see over there, there are also very few incidences of this issue in the first place and none that have recurred. 

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nigelspencer

So the two parts fitted were

K35600MFJD01 switch assy

K24315HA000 PIN shifter

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SteveThackery
2 hours ago, nigelspencer said:

So the two parts fitted were

K35600MFJD01 switch assy

K24315HA000 PIN shifter

 

Alarm bells immediately ring.  The chances of both failing at the same time are extremely small.  One of them didn't need replacing.  I'd ask for both faulty parts.

 

Still, I'm glad it's mended now. 

 

 

Edited by SteveThackery
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MikeBike
4 hours ago, nigelspencer said:

So the two parts fitted were

K35600MFJD01 switch assy

K24315HA000 PIN shifter

was the shifter pin the same part number as fitted in 2013?

Did you see the broken pin?

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If not in warranty they should according to Honda San put all faulty changed and charged for parts in a plastic bag and return them to the customer.

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nigelspencer

Sounds as though I'll be seeing them again in three years - or not as I'll get my normal local mechanic to fit the newer part rather than the dealers. I didn't see either of the parts as the service part of the dealers closes much earlier than I can get to them, they have a non mechanic there after 5 so that you can pick up.

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MikeBike
14 hours ago, nigelspencer said:

So the two parts fitted were

K35600MFJD01 switch assy

K24315HA000 PIN shifter

 

9 hours ago, embee said:

24315-HA0-000 is the part number listed for the original 2012 NC DCT.

24315-HL4-000 is the part number for the later pin used in the 750.

https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda-motorcycle/750-MOTO/NC/2018/NC750SDJ/Engine/GEARSHIFT-DRUM-NC750SD-/100119/E_19_1/1/32282

 

So it looks like the part fitted in 2017 was the old 'faulty' pin despite the new revised one being available for some years. And this was the Honda dealer. I would be pushing them to rectify their mistake Free of charge. You shouldn't be expected to replace a gearbox part after only  a couple of years and they should have used the revised one and not fitted a proven faulty pin.

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I don't know whether the new part superseded the old part for service replacement. The Dealers will fit what is specified for the model, they will not second guess the book (liability and all that). We may happen to know that the new part will replace the old part like for like, but unless specified by the manufacturer a dealer won't (usually) do it.

 

When I was in the industry we regularly issued new design parts. There were general guidelines and principles for how it was done. if a new part could be interchanged with the old part with no effect to fit/function (e.g. revision to details for manufacturing purposes) then it could carry the same part number with a sequential issue letter, meaning old or new versions could be used in service equally. If there was a significant aspect which would affect fit/function (including reliability) then it had a new part number. These may be introduced at a certain production point (e.g. model year), and may or may not be specified to replace the old part number for service fit. There was also a "use up" option, where the old parts were used up and new stock became the new part.

If you scroll through the Honda fiche listings you will often see old parts crossed out and a new part number given. I would have expected this to have been done for the shifter pin, but maybe Honda decided it was not warranted, we don't know.

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nigelspencer

Just to be clear, the part numbers I gave were the ones fitted yesterday rather than 2017, I'm looking for that invoice over the weekend.

 

I suppose putting this into perspective it's a very cheap bike to run, service and tyre pretty much every 8000 miles and about 70mpg - so £200 isn't all that horrific over 3 years (hopefully the last time though!). I had the cam belt and water pump changed on a golf this year, £500!

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