'12 DCT Won't Start (Click, Click, Click, Click)

[geeksrpeeps2 11]

Thank you for reading.  My DCT is having an intermittent issue starting (happening with increased frequency, losing trust as a daily commuter).  When engaging the start switch (following the familiar fuel pump whirring sound), I get the dreaded click, click, click from the starter switch / solenoid.  This has occurred with two different fully charged batteries, multiple starter switches / solenoids, and multiple starters.  I'm thinking this an electrical (short) issue, so I ordered a replacement positive battery cable and starter cable as my next troubleshooting step.

 

I appreciate anyone else's perspective and input if you have any other troubleshooting recommendations.  Thanks again.

[makman 975]

Is the bike changing gears okay?  I had a shifter pin problem on my 13 plate DCT that gave similar starting issues.  It cannot engage gear/neutral, so it does not start.

 

Other than that, new battery, check reg/rec and solenoids as you have done already.

 

Hope you get it sorted asap.

[rjp996 1,091]

When its going click, Is the battery low ?, as you said you changed the battery - if after the battery was changed you are saying that a good battery is discharging until it goes click when started again, have you checked for parasitic drain (if you suspect its the battery as keeps going dead. You can check the drain by putting you amp / multi meter in series with the battery when bike turned off - see what the amps it’s pulling when off and if it’s pulling a higher than expected amps, pull the fuses one by one until the drain/ amps drop and you identify the cuircit that has the draw (be it a short as you suspect of another component)

 

if any use in can give you the amp static drain on my DCT as a baseline

Edited December 29, 2019 by rjp996

[DCTPaul 629]

As mentioned....

A battery may be showing the volts...

but may not have the amps to back it up when the starter is pressed...

not enough current to hold the relay / solenoid in place, hence the clicking...

I would go Battery...

Go quality Yuasa or somesuch...

I find cheapies false economy and liable to ket you down.

As for what is wearing the battery... old? Overdrawn with accessories, or as per my ikd gilly runner - boiled by over voltage from a failed reg/rec...

[Slowboy 20,427]

If there is something like a USB connection wired straight to the battery, they have a residual drain even when nothing is connected to them that can flatten a battery in a few days when not being used.

Just a thought.

[JONO49 201]

You've mentioned you use your bike as a commuter, so I surmise it has a reasonably mileage and ridden in all weathers, so you might be on the right track with the leads and corrosion, but something a lot of people overlook on high mileage bikes is the starter motor brushes being worn! An intermitant start problem is the early signs, If you can lay your hands on an multi-meter and measure the battery voltage when fully charged 12.68 volts is what you want to see at the lower level, when you hit the start button there ideally wants to be no more than a 1.5volt drop in the voltage when the starter engages, when it clicks see what happens then?

Edited December 29, 2019 by JONO49

[SteveThackery 3,090]

8 hours ago, geeksrpeeps2 said:

I'm thinking this an electrical (short) issue, so I ordered a replacement positive battery cable and starter cable as my next troubleshooting step.

 

I doubt it's a short.  Shorts on fused circuits blow the fuse.  Shorts on unfused circuits (like the starter) cause much heat and smoke.

 

Before we go any further, we need to know one thing: when it goes click, does the battery voltage drop right down?  That is, do the instrument panel and warning lights go really dim?  

 

Even better, connect a voltmeter across the battery and note the voltage.  Turn on the ignition, wait for the pump to finish priming, and note the voltage again.  Press the starter so it goes click, and note the voltage once more.  If you report those three numbers back - along with the behaviour of the warning lights - it will help us a lot.

 

8 hours ago, geeksrpeeps2 said:

This has occurred with two different fully charged batteries, multiple starter switches / solenoids, and multiple starters.

 

It really bothers me that you (or someone) has been swapping batteries, solenoids, starters..... this is NOT how you cure a fault.  You don't throw expensive parts at the bike and hope for the best (unless you're a bike mechanic at a dealer who gets commission on the parts he fits).  You need to take a logical approach to the problem.  Measuring those voltages would be a good start.  Oh, as would measuring the "switched off" current, as mentioned above.  It will be a few milliamps, so set your meter accordingly.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by SteveThackery

[Graham NZ 1,186]

If all else fails get the battery load-tested.  A battery can show good voltage but fail a load-test.  Starting puts maximum load on a battery so it's then that a faulty battery will object with clicking.

[geeksrpeeps2 11]

Many thanks for your collective input, as I'm an obvious novice at motorcycle troubleshooting / repair (just following the troubleshooting steps for starter issues in the Honda service manual).  The batteries I've attempted are a Battery Tender lithium ion (about 4 years old) and a MightyMax (about 11 months old), both showing "fully charged" upon installing.  I removed the direct-connect USB cable shortly after the starting issue began worsening about a month ago. 

 

I'll invest in a decent multi-meter (which I've never used before, as I'm a bit skittish about electric current) and test the load drop when starting as recommended, and report the results.

 

Thanks again for sharing your wisdom and experience regarding this issue! 

[Griff 1,556]

To the experts on here would worn starter motor brushes cause this ?  Wonder what mileage is on the bike ? 

[geeksrpeeps2 11]

17 minutes ago, Griff said:

To the experts on here would worn starter motor brushes cause this ?  Wonder what mileage is on the bike ? 

Just under 90,000 km

Edited December 30, 2019 by geeksrpeeps2

[jeremyr62 2,554]

Yes, worn bushes in the starter motor would give these symptoms. 90k km is not huge though, although have seen it on motors with less. Older Hondas had rebuildable starter motors. No idea about NC. The OP does say he has tried multiple starters so unlikely to be this.

[JONO49 201]

Try direct to the solanoid from the battery and eliminate the starter switch? Or if your feeling bold go straight to the starter!

Edited December 30, 2019 by JONO49

[Andy m 23,513]

You need a set of jump leads. 

 

1. Battery direct to starter motor cable to bypass the solenoid and associated switches. 

2. Starter motor body to frame in case the mounting is isolated by corrosion. 

3. Battery negative to frame in case it's the earth strap. The starter is the biggest draw so is always first to suffer from earth faults. 

 

You can also use the jump leads to bench test the motor. Sparks and burning smells will tell you about the brushes. Don't run for more than 2-3 seconds as a time though. 

 

Andy

[geeksrpeeps2 11]

Battery load failure was indeed the culprit, with both batteries. Thank you all for teaching me a valuable lesson of battery charge versus battery load. I wrongly assumed that a fully charged battery equated to a fully capable (load delivery) battery (especially with the 'newer' MightyMax battery being under a year old).

 

I installed a new battery and she fired right up with no hesitation (vice a 10% chance of starting pre-battery swap).  I got my daily commuter back!

 

Thanks again for all your sage advice, and Happy New Year!!

[Andy m 23,513]

Glad you are sorted. 

 

Voltage is the electrical equivalent of pressure. You can have the water tank three hundred feet above the tap and measure 150 psi, but if there is only a pipe full, you are getting nothing more than a quick blast and damp feet when you open it up. 

 

Andy

[SteveThackery 3,090]

23 hours ago, geeksrpeeps2 said:

Battery load failure was indeed the culprit, with both batteries. Thank you all for teaching me a valuable lesson of battery charge versus battery load. I wrongly assumed that a fully charged battery equated to a fully capable (load delivery) battery (especially with the 'newer' MightyMax battery being under a year old).

 

Hmm.... I remain sceptical.  A battery that lasted less than a year?  Are you SURE there is no current draw (apart from single-digit milliamps) when the bike is switched off?

[geeksrpeeps2 11]

I certainly understand your skepticism, as I initially leaned away from a battery issue due to the existing battery's relative youth.  The replacement battery features 300 cold cranking amps versus 100 CCA in the MightyMax.  I frequently used a directly connected dual USB adapter with the MightyMax (which I would occasionally forget to power down after riding), which may have aided in the battery's accelerated demise. 

 

I'll post again if the issues return, but so far so good on day 2 post-battery replacement. Thanks again.

Edited January 2, 2020 by geeksrpeeps2

[Graham NZ 1,186]

The likely hood of both batteries failing a load-test is remote but as shown here it can happen. 

 

This is far from the first case of a battery I've come across which appeared to be holding a healthy Voltage but then failed a load test.

 

More than once I've seen brand-new spark plugs fail after only a minute of operation.  Rare but real.

[listener 11,180]

17 hours ago, geeksrpeeps2 said:

The replacement battery features 300 cold cranking amps versus 100 CCA in the MightyMax.

 

A new battery, if of the correct capacity and spec, should not die after a year.

The OEM battery on my last NC750X DCT was still going strong after four years.

I don't think I've ever charged that battery by any other means than riding the beast; and it has had to cope with chilly Scottish winters.

 

I notice that you state that the MightyMax battery was rated at 100 CCA.

The OEM Honda battery (YTZ14S) is rated at 230 CCA, so that may be why the MightyMax was going bye-byes so quickly.

 

You didn't state what the CCA was for the Battery Tender one but, assuming that it's CCA was around or even under 230, at "about 4 years old" it may well have been unable to cope.

[ste7ios 469]

Battery’s life depends on usage, sizing and environmental conditions. The same battery may last a year or even eight to ten...

 

It’s very important to stick to the specs and when we don’t understand them we’ve to stick to the same model (YTZ-14S). Easier & safe...

 

A smaller AGM battery than the specified for example will get overcharged. Overcharging causes gassing and the AGM will get dry. Overcharging also accelerated grid corrosion.

 

Lithium market is a mess. CCA are meaningless for Lithium (no LFP can pass the CCA tests) and the quality is not always the best. In cold you’ve to warm them first by consuming some current and then try to start the engine but because they’re usually too small for many engines or usage scenarios there’s not enough juice to start the engine at the end...

 

The best is to choose one with a capacity near to the OEM AGM battery (not easy because of the physical size) or the biggest that can fit in the battery area...

 

 

About the troubleshooting... Measurements, measurements, measurements!

 

And never forget the connections. A bad / loose connection is enough for click, click, click...

 

Anything else is just guessing...

[dave 963]

Does your bike still have the rubber battery strap, without it being secure vibration could set in at certain revs. 

[SteveThackery 3,090]

1 hour ago, ste7ios said:

 

About the troubleshooting... Measurements, measurements, measurements!

 

 

Amen.

 

 

[Mark8arker 527]

My battery has died on me. Out of my routine. Not used the bike for a couple of weeks. Started it up on Saturday to move the bike. Started striaght away. Left it running for few minutes. Both brakes with little tight. So cleaned them. Put the bike away. Came to check  it's ok tonight for the morning & its clik click click. Put it on charger.                                                                            

 

Possible worth swapping  the battery for a new one? Allot shortish runs to work last two years 18,000 mile on the clock + has 12v socket in the frunk for charging mobile. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Mark8arker