Regulator/Rectifier Location

[Greaser 10]

Hi guys,

I am very new here and have a quick question after already reading through some posts to what my fault could be on my NC700XC, I have a brand new battery which will not stay charged, has been on the Optimate 3 times now, bike starts fine, then after switching off, I have now power, where do I locate the regulator/rectifier please.

[shiggsy 529]

Here you go

 

 

[trisaki 2,029]

2 hours ago, Greaser said:

Hi guys,

I am very new here and have a quick question after already reading through some posts to what my fault could be on my NC700XC, I have a brand new battery which will not stay charged, has been on the Optimate 3 times now, bike starts fine, then after switching off, I have now power, where do I locate the regulator/rectifier please.

Put a volt meter across the battery terminals when its running to see whether or not its charging  ,should be 13v +

[Greaser 10]

Hi Mark

Many thanks yes I'll check that thanks, any idea where the rectifier is please?

[Greaser 10]

Hey thanks for the reply, have just seen yours after replying

[shiggsy 529]

I was going to say, with eyesight like that no wonder you couldn't find it

[Greaser 10]

Have only just started on getting at it, such a pain trying to remove the underseat panel/tail tidy, I managed to break a few of the pop up plastic panel pins as they would not pop out, I can now just about get my hand in and see the reg/rec why is it so difficult to get at, argh, luck I found my son's multimeter so can check the voltages.

[fj_stuart 4,753]

I had this problem a while back on my CBF250. As Mark says the first thing to do is put a voltmeter across the battery and start the bike. The voltage should increase from 12V to 13-14V. If this doesn't happen something is wrong.

 

Before you change the regulator/rectifier check the output from the alternator. You can do this from the plug into the reg/rec. In the case of the CBF it was between each of three yellow wires and ground (the alternator is three phase) The voltage should be quite high (40-60V AC)

 

In my case the reg/rec was ok but the alternator stator was fried. Luckily I got a used item from the auction site.

 

For more details see my blog:

 

http://fjstuart.blogspot.com/2018/12/it-never-rains-but-it-pours.html#comment-form

[Tex 36,817]

Stuart is right. Shotgun diagnostics (firing new parts at a problem until one of them cures it) is expensive, frustrating and time consuming. A proper diagnosis is needed. The problem could be in the alternator or the wiring/connectors (including the earths) just as easily. 

[Steve Case 949]

I had a similar problem with the old, dead and unloved burgman. Bought a new cheap battery from Wemoto and fitted, within a day it would hold no charge so tested with the MultiAVO and found when disconnected it showed no voltage and I surmised one of the internal poles had broken.

 

Wemoto replaced the battery after checking I was not taking the mickey and the replacement lasted for a year until the burgman was killed by a low flying BMW.

 

Just saying that a new battery is not always a good battery.

[Greaser 10]

Hi guys

After leaving my new battery on the Optimate for a few days, I put the meter on it and it read 12.13 volts, the bike fired up, meter went up to 14.05, even 14.33 when revved up, I switched it off, the voltage dropped back to 12.10ish and stayed there, later it fired up and gave me the same readings as before, great I thought I'd go for a short ride tomorrow and check it again, comes out this morning, put the meter on and it's dropped to 0.93, not even enough juice to fire the fuel pump, any ideas please, could it be the reg/rec is sucking all the juice out when it's standing just overnight???

 

Am not very technical at tracing faults.

[outrunner 4,457]

I am thinking you have a short somewhere that is draining the battery, or the battery is a bad one, it does happen.

 

Andy.

[Greaser 10]

Just now, outrunner said:

I am thinking you have a short somewhere that is draining the battery, or the battery is a bad one, it does happen.

 

Andy.

Hi Andy

Thanks will check it out, the battery is new and after just speaking with M&P Direct who sold me the battery 2 weeks ago, said if the reg/rec is faulty and you leave the battery connected, it will drain it right down overnight.

 

[fj_stuart 4,753]

The good news is the charging system is working ok. So I doubt that you have a bad regulator/rectifier.

 

I would check the current leaking from the battery with the ignition off. There should be a little to the clock etc going. On my CBF250 this is specified as 0.1mA max. If there is a lot more there is likely a short.

 

Another thing I'd do was charge the battery and leave it disconnected overnight to see if it holds a charge.

 

 

[ste7ios 469]

The right way to check the battery status:

 

1. Disconnect it from the bike
2. Fully charge it (leave it overnight to the Optimate)

3. Disconnect it from the maintainer and let it rest for at least 1 - 2 hours

4. Do your measurement with the multimeter. A brand new AGM battery in good condition must give you 12.8 to 13V at 25°C / 77°F when fully charged (take a look at the manuals of the manufacturer. They may vary a little. For Yuasa/Varta is 12.9-13.0V). The voltage will be lower at lower temperatures.

 

(I would repeat the measurement after a couple of hours)

 

The open circuit voltage is only indicative of the battery status. You also need a load test to estimate the real status of a battery. The best is a load tester of course but the engine starter can do the job.

 

Connect the battery to the engine, the voltmeter on the battery and take a measurement. Start the engine and keep your eyes on the voltmeter. You need to see what’s the voltage drop.

 

The problem of the most cheap digital multimeters can’t measure correctly fast changes in the voltage so it will be good to repeat the above with the battery fully charged.

 

Let us know the numbers (voltages & temperature).

 

 

It’s also important to measure for parasitic drain as Stuart said. For the NC must be lower than 1.2 mA.

[shiggsy 529]

If it read 12.13 volts after coming off of the Optimate I suspect the battery is knackered.

ste7ios checks will confirm it.

Are there any aftermarket electronics wired in to the bike ? 

[ste7ios 469]

12.13 V? Right after the charging? Sorry, I missed that... With that voltage the battery holds less than 25% of its named capacity. It’s useless for an AGM. 

 

Anyway, test it as described to be sure.

 

Any link to the battery? Brand? Product code / model?

[Greaser 10]

21 hours ago, shiggsy said:

If it read 12.13 volts after coming off of the Optimate I suspect the battery is knackered.

ste7ios checks will confirm it.

Are there any aftermarket electronics wired in to the bike ? 

It's a brand new battery, I have twin air horns but they have been on over a year without any worries, am going to test the battery after being on the Optimate, connect it up to the bike, but disconnect the regulator leave over night then check the voltage on the battery, if it has dropped then it's more than likely the reg

[ste7ios 469]

What’s the battery? A link? A photo? 
 

Sometimes new has nothing to do with fresh.

 

If it’s a factory activated battery like Yuasa’s YTZ or GYZ series or a bottle supplied type AGM battery but bought / activated a lot of months ago, not properly maintained, not stored in a cool environment then the “new” battery (for you) will be severely deteriorated.

 

 

[Greaser 10]

https://www.mandp.co.uk/products/mbtz14s-motobatt-battery-680715

[outrunner 4,457]

On 26/04/2020 at 11:26, Greaser said:

It's a brand new battery, I have twin air horns but they have been on over a year without any worries, am going to test the battery after being on the Optimate, connect it up to the bike, but disconnect the regulator leave over night then check the voltage on the battery, if it has dropped then it's more than likely the reg

If it has dropped overnight doing as you say, connected to the bike with the regulator disconnected 

and the voltage drops then it is probably what I said before, short or duff battery, just because the battery is new does not mean it can not be faulty.

 

Andy.

[Greaser 10]

Yes I agree, the dealer has offered me a replacement one so that's good.

 

After fully charging the battery again, I connected it to the bike after I disconnected the regulator, voltage was 12.99, a few hours later it was 12.13, then an hour later 11.07, I found 2 green wires bolted to the side of the frame on the left side which I take it are earths, I removed the bolt and cleaned the area before re bolting back on the frame.

 

I finally got the regulator out today after much fiddling with the tail tidy, the connectors had some oil over them which might have flicked up from the chain, after checking how to test it on YouTube I was surprised to see that the yellow wiring from the connectors goes off into the engine casing, and the red and green pair merge into several other wires, so not sure how to test them now.

 

Am I able to just meter the regulator terminals to ensue there's continuity, the positive terminal has some scale on it which obviously I'll clean off, I have taken some picturesbut am not sure how to post them on here, it says copy URL well they are on my phone's gallery.

 

If the replacement battery behaves the same way I'm at a dead end and don't have a clue what to try next.

 

By the way when I did fire it up and revved it, the voltage went right up which must indicate the alternator IS working as it should.

 

 

[Tex 36,817]

 

1 hour ago, Greaser said:

I was surprised to see that the yellow wiring from the connectors goes off into the engine casing, and the red and green pair merge into several other wires, so not sure how to test them now.

 

The three yellow wires go to the alternator (which is inside the engine cover). To test the alternator output turn your meter to AC voltage, start the engine and measure across the three terminals in the multi plug. Call them A B & C. Put one probe on A and the other on B check the reading (will be much higher than 12V!) then check A to C then B to C. All three checks should give a similar reading 

 

1 hour ago, Greaser said:

By the way when I did fire it up and revved it, the voltage went right up which must indicate the alternator IS working as it should.

It sounds as though it is, but the test (above) will confirm it.

[outrunner 4,457]

1 hour ago, Greaser said:

 

If the replacement battery behaves the same way I'm at a dead end and don't have a clue what to try next.

If it does then you have a short somewhere which could take a bit of finding.

 

Andy.

[Graham NZ 1,186]

Interesting topic.  Much better than Covid Lockdown sadness.