dct problems

[putz 38]

well after nearly 120,000 miles looks like my super reliable 700s dct is worn out. The clutch seems to have worn, i need nearly all the 6k revs to pull away and ok when gets going. Not much info about the dct clutches wearing, out there, although i can guess a great cost. If anyone can advise or know i approx cost that would be great. Always comes at a bad time. thanks

 

[Griff 1,556]

I assume You have tried a reset   That is serious mileage to get out of any clutch let alone the complexity of a DCT unit.  Very encouraging to hear actually. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Griff

[KingJames 1,262]

I think that is worth a complaint to Honda, 120k is still young.  Wasn't there something about a solenoid and a pin going that when replaced it sprung back into life?

[ChrisCB 6,653]

2 minutes ago, KingJames said:

I think that is worth a complaint to Honda, 120k is still young.  Wasn't there something about a solenoid and a pin going that when replaced it sprung back into life?

Didn't Honda say the clutch plates would last forever because there is no human activation involvement?

 

I stripped a 98k bike and the plates were well within tolerance.

[fj_stuart 4,739]

55 minutes ago, Chris750 said:

Didn't Honda say the clutch plates would last forever because there is no human activation involvement?

 

I think a clutch might last forever even with a dumb human operating it. I’ve taken two FJ1200s to 100k+ on original clutch plates.

 

A couple of years ago I had to replace the clutch basket on my CBF250. There was some weird wear on the teeth that caused a loud whine. While the clutch was apart I checked the plates. The bike had done 56,000 miles but they were still in spec. Not only that they were, as far as my digital calipers could measure, at the upper end of the spec. Thus there had been no measurable wear after all those miles. Ok the CBF isn’t very powerful, but that’s still impressive.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

Yep, you need to try the DCT reset procedure.  Search this forum for instructions.

I believe there are filters that can cause this problem when blocked - someone with more recent experience than me can probably advise.

Edited August 3, 2020 by SteveThackery

[putz 38]

Thanks for your advice, i have done the dct reset procedure and the d and s will not go from display now, i think it could be more serious than this, time to take to a mechanic i think.

[Tex 36,816]

7 hours ago, putz said:

Thanks for your advice, i have done the dct reset procedure and the d and s will not go from display now, i think it could be more serious than this, time to take to a mechanic i think.

If the D and S are showing it indicates the reset was unsuccessful. Probably because you didn’t have the engine hot enough when you did it. By all means consult a mechanic by make sure it’s one who is fully conversant with DCT!

[SteveThackery 3,090]

I agree - it pretty well has to be a Honda mechanic, because you need someone conversant with the unusual transmission, plus the setting up and reset procedures.

[putz 38]

I have been trying the dct reset over a period of days , you get a large or a small L come up in display , this is what i have read tells you engine not hot enough etc. When i first turn on a large L then after about 5 mins a small l and then it goes out. This is when i have been trying the procedure.

 

[MikeBike 5,005]

I think the clutch reset procedure is different depending if it's pre or post facelift model (2016) si make sure you are following the correct procedure. 

As setting the clutch take up is what  the DCT reset is for I'd definitely try doing that successfully before taking it to the dealer.

[putz 38]

yes thanks will try again today

 

[Integrator 180]

Did you solve the problem by now..?

[MikeBike 5,005]

@putzHow did it go?

Edited August 13, 2020 by MikeBike

[putz 38]

no, not solved the problem, the d and s will not go from display and still slipping and a struggle to get moving. Every way has been tried with reset, seems that this is a more serious issuse than just a dct reset or calibration. The next move is honda, which i wont be able to do till work picks up. thanks for your advice guys

 

[MikeBike 5,005]

3 hours ago, putz said:

no, not solved the problem, the d and s will not go from display and still slipping and a struggle to get moving. Every way has been tried with reset, seems that this is a more serious issuse than just a dct reset or calibration. The next move is honda, which i wont be able to do till work picks up. thanks for your advice guys

 

I had D and S stuck for a while after I'd tried (and failed) to do a DCT reset and done something wrong. I thought I'd broken it but eventually it went away but I'm afraid I cant remember what I did - maybe it was disconnecting battery for a while?

So I suspect the fact that DS remains mens the DCT reset didnt complete properly. So get rid of DS and do the correct procedure beofre a service visit.

Maybe someone else on here can help re getting rid of DS

 

 

EDIT found this - see what it says about DS showing at the end... and have a read of the thread at

 

 

CLUTCH INITIALIZE LEARNING (PCM)

• If the PCM and/or clutch assembly are replaced,

perform this procedure.

• Before starting this procedure, check the following:

– PGM-FI system and DCT system have no DTC.

– Engine idle speed is normal.

– Transmission is in neutral and cooling fan stops.

• Do not operate the throttle during clutch initialize

learning

1. Warm up the engine to the normal operating

temperature (engine oil temperature: 50 – 110°C/

122 – 230°F) and stop it.

If the PCM is replaced with a new one, the "D" and "S"

indicators [1] come on to indicate that the clutch

initialize learning is necessary when the ignition switch

is turned ON. Further the large "L" [2] (extremely low oil

temperature) or small "L" [3] (low oil temperature) is

displayed on the shift indicator to indicate that the

engine warming up is necessary if it is not warmed.

 

 

DUAL CLUTCH TRANSMISSION (DCT) (NC700XD/SD)

2. Turn the ignition switch ON with the engine stop

switch " (in the run position) " while pushing the D switch [1] of the N-D

shift switch. The MIL [2] will come on.

Release the D switch after the MIL goes off.

• When only the dual clutch assembly is replaced:

No indication appears on the shift indicator [3].

• When the PCM is replaced:

The "D" and "S" indicators [4] come on.

3. Operate the N-D shift switch [1] in the sequence as

follows:

– Push the D switch

– Push the D switch

– Push the N switch

– Push the D switch

– Push the N switch

• When only the dual clutch assembly is replaced:

The PCM is ready to clutch initialize learning when

the "D" and "S" indicators [2] lights, and the "–" [3] is

displayed on the shift indicator and blinks at interval

of 2 seconds.

• When the PCM is replaced:

The PCM is ready to clutch initialize learning when

the "–" is displayed on the shift indicator and blinks

at interval of 2 seconds.

When the engine is not warmed up enough, the large

"L" [4] (extremely low oil temperature) or small "L" [5]

(low oil temperature) is displayed on the shift indicator.

If so, warm up it until the "L" on the shift indicator goes

off. Stop the engine and perform the steps 2 and 3

again.

 

4. Start the engine and let it idle. The "–" [1] on the shift

indicator starts blinking at interval of 2 seconds. The

Clutch Initialize Learning is successful, when the "–",

"D" and "S" indicators [2] go off.

Stop the engine.

The clutch initialize learning is unsuccessful, if the "–"

starts blinking at interval of 0.5 second or it goes off,

and the "D" and "S" indicators stay on. Perform the

initialize learning procedure from step 2 again.

5. Stop the engine.

6. Restart the engine, push the D switch of the N-D

shift switch

Edited August 14, 2020 by MikeBike

[putz 38]

i think the reset procedure is past being of any use, i think the clutches need changing maybe and wont calibrate. thanks for all the advice, i will post when i have a diagnosis, when i sell the silver 

[MikeBike 5,005]

15 minutes ago, putz said:

i think the reset procedure is past being of any use, i think the clutches need changing maybe and wont calibrate. thanks for all the advice, i will post when i have a diagnosis, when i sell the silver 

If it's not actually completed sucessfully, what makes you think it won't be of any use. I got DS stuck on mine and it was fine afterwards. It came from me doing the procedure going wrongly not because there procedure couldn't complete for a mechanical reason.

Of course it may be mechanical especially with a high mileage, but as the bike has a procedure to adjust the clutch take up, and that is the issue,are you sure it's really been done according to the procedure above  - one last try from step 2.

I thought I'd broken mine and couldnt get rid of DS until I retried a few times.

[putz 38]

Just a hunch, bike has 120k on it and i need nearly all the revs to pull away 6k revs, the dct reset is a good calibration for some, but possibly not a sequence for worn parts, Have been trying this on and off for weeks as it still works with d and s up, but now hardly able to pull away. Maybe try and get honda to look at it to find out whats needed, and if they reset it i will be amazed. Will try once more sunday following your posted procedure again.  Thankyou  for your time in helping me , good to see a problem through , as some may keep there dct for a few more miles

[dave 959]

Steve, I live locally to you, my first contact is Gforce Motorcycles for help, or Lee at  Motor-works. Newington, but they probably do not have the hands on knowledge of DCTs.

 

 

[putz 38]

cheers, yes my mate has his suzuki serviced at g force and i know of lee at motorworks, but i would say this is a job for a honda dealer, as the technical back up should be of help from honda, my first port of call would be kent motorcycles when possible. Most of the other stuff on the nc these guys would be very good, as not to complex. Tried reset again today and no joy

Edited August 16, 2020 by putz

[Steve Case 939]

Just a quickie, whats the NC used for? Do you do a lot of commuting into London for example with lots of slow speed work?

[Griff 1,556]

17 minutes ago, Steve Case said:

Just a quickie, whats the NC used for? Do you do a lot of commuting into London for example with lots of slow speed work?

 

Nope. 

[Steve Case 939]

Probably the wrong person, that would be a hell of a commute.

[putz 38]

yes all london commute and stop start in westend london all day, thats why i think the clutches have worn, rather than a calibration