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Horn/Shift button on DCT


MatBin

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MatBin

After a million years on bikes my left thumb operates the hooter on the lowest rocker switch on the left hand cluster, unfortunately Honda decided to put a gear shift paddle switch there and the hooter button further up the cluster.

Looking at the wiring diagram it doesn't look to difficult to swap the wires over, anyone done this.

Or come up with a cunning way to hit the hooter instead if changing gear (down) when trying to alert a dozen car driver/pedestrian?

Edited by MatBin
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Never had a problem with this, however, I did toot the horn a few times when trying to cancel the indicators on the first BMW I had.     Andy.

Could include that with popping over to Durham for an eyesight test...maybe 

Am I just an old guy that can not see things?, or perhaps I am a genius at adapting to new setups as I see no problem whatsoever with the button positions on the NC.     Andy.

Gringo

No. Not had this issue myself. I've been riding for a million years too. Having said that, what I did find hard to get used to was cancelling the indicators without hitting the horn button. 

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Everyone complains about the Honda switchgear, but you get used to it. Just practice. “Just popping out for an hour, love. I need to brush up on the switches..” 

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Had that issue myself too. However the CRF has the same layout as the X-Adv. As they are my two most used bikes I now have become very accustomed to that layout and no difficulty when riding them. However I now have the exact same problem as Gringo had with the other two bikes, and because I don't ride them as often, this is a nuisance especially when I need to use the horn. 

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davebike

It gets easer I had my grom together with a fazer  rea issues now without Fazer with NC750x it is easer ! Still change up looking for ead lamp flas :-( !

 

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When I turn out of my drive I cover the horn button as there is a side road to the left with not so great visibility. After three years of doing this I can instantly find the button whenever needed - almost every time :cry:

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Gringo
25 minutes ago, Tex said:

 “Just popping out for an hour, love. I need to brush up on the switches..” 

Could include that with popping over to Durham for an eyesight test...maybe :banana:

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Rocker66

All this fuss about one switch changing. How would these people have got on when bikes changed from having the gear change on the right to on the left and the gear pattern from 1 up 3 down  to 1 down 3 up. Believe me sounding the horn whilst trying to indicate is nowhere as dangerously painful  as hitting the rear brake instead of changing up whilst your rear wheel is on a wet manhole cover. And you bike still has the Japanese tyres.

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davebike

Funney I never had a problem  Working fro a dealer in teh 70's I had to swap all te  time ! My Jota was RHS shift !

 

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Rocker66
3 minutes ago, davebike said:

Funney I never had a problem  Working fro a dealer in teh 70's I had to swap all te  time ! My Jota was RHS shift !

 

I found it strange after riding for several years on Brit bikes certainly more of a change than worrying about one little button.

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ChrisCB

People have been banging on about this for 10 years! First model was VFR1200. The hooter is the most under used button, toot at every car at a junction, cyclist and pedestrian to warn them of your presence you'll soon get used to where it is.

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outrunner

Never had a problem with this, however, I did toot the horn a few times when trying to cancel the indicators on the first BMW I had.

 

 

Andy.

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Haggard Rider

I've had the opposite problem - went to press the horn, indicated instead - then it was too late to express my annoyance so settled back into zen mode.

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listener

I've got this great idea for a horn switch ...

You have an inductive sensor buried in the rider's seat and a passive sensor attached (or in close proximity) to the rider's bum cheeks.

 

When the rider experiences a 'OMFG' moment his/her cheeks will pucker up, activating the inductive sensor via the passive sensor.

This activates the horn. Simples! :thumbsup:

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SteveThackery

I disagree with Rocker on this.  Yes, we can all get used to things changing, but for me there needs to be some good reason - an advantage - in it.

 

Also, if everyone changes in the same way, then it's much easier to get used to.  The classic example of this is when British cars moved the indicator stalk from the right (which I still think is better) to the left in order to standardise with cars from other countries.  The fact that all cars ended up with it on the left made it easier to adapt, and the standardised layout made it safer.

 

The trouble with Honda's little game is that plenty of other manufacturers have not followed suit, so we must switch between the two systems when we swap bikes.  It's silly.  

 

Imagine if Ford decided to swap the indicator and wiper stalks, but no other manufacturer followed.  It would be considered ridiculous and Ford would be derided for doing something different - and non-standard - just for the sake of it.  Well, I'm deriding Honda.  Rocker is right - you get used to it - but until you do you're bound to make the odd mistake.  There used to be a joke that - according to the Highway Code - turning on the wipers is a recognised alternative to the right hand indicator.  (It didn't say that of course, but the joke captured the problem.)

 

I felt super-embarrassed on a handful of occasions when I cancelled the indicator but accidentally sounded the horn - it's very discourteous to the car in front, who naturally thinks you are telling them off, or saying "get out of the way".

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The reason Honda did the change is clearly to accomodate the DCT paddles. Obviously then from a cost point of view it made sense to change all the switches. 

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1 hour ago, Rocker66 said:

All this fuss about one switch changing. How would these people have got on when bikes changed from having the gear change on the right to on the left and the gear pattern from 1 up 3 down  to 1 down 3 up. Believe me sounding the horn whilst trying to indicate is nowhere as dangerously painful  as hitting the rear brake instead of changing up whilst your rear wheel is on a wet manhole cover. And you bike still has the Japanese tyres.

 

I must admit I am deeply hurt at being slagged off because of my psychological shortfalls regarding these switches. I can't help being the way I am and some understanding should be shown :cry:

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Rocker66
1 minute ago, Griff said:

 

I must admit I am deeply hurt at being slagged off because of my psychological shortfalls regarding these switches. I can't help being the way I am and some understanding should be shown :cry:

I can understand that some people may have trouble adjusting but I can’t understand why after 10 years there are still long threads about it. 

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Gringo
1 hour ago, outrunner said:

Never had a problem with this, however, I did toot the horn a few times when trying to cancel the indicators on the first BMW I had.

 

 

Andy.

Yes, me too. Always the left turn cancel :dielaugh:

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They can do what they like with switches, but to do away with the ignition key is one step to far, I will never go keyless. 

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ChrisCB
8 minutes ago, dave said:

They can do what they like with switches, but to do away with the ignition key is one step to far, I will never go keyless. 

You still have a key you just don't stick it in a hole 😁

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Rocker66
1 hour ago, SteveThackery said:

I disagree with Rocker on this.  Yes, we can all get used to things changing, but for me there needs to be some good reason - an advantage - in it.

 

Also, if everyone changes in the same way, then it's much easier to get used to.  The classic example of this is when British cars moved the indicator stalk from the right (which I still think is better) to the left in order to standardise with cars from other countries.  The fact that all cars ended up with it on the left made it easier to adapt, and the standardised layout made it safer.

 

The trouble with Honda's little game is that plenty of other manufacturers have not followed suit, so we must switch between the two systems when we swap bikes.  It's silly.  

 

Imagine if Ford decided to swap the indicator and wiper stalks, but no other manufacturer followed.  It would be considered ridiculous and Ford would be derided for doing something different - and non-standard - just for the sake of it.  Well, I'm deriding Honda.  Rocker is right - you get used to it - but until you do you're bound to make the odd mistake.  There used to be a joke that - according to the Highway Code - turning on the wipers is a recognised alternative to the right hand indicator.  (It didn't say that of course, but the joke captured the problem.)

 

I felt super-embarrassed on a handful of occasions when I cancelled the indicator but accidentally sounded the horn - it's very discourteous to the car in front, who naturally thinks you are telling them off, or saying "get out of the way".

When I first got my airhead BMWs I had to adjust to an entirely different switch gear arrangement but. I just adapted. At one time the instruments on bikes were all basically the same but now they vary a lot from one model to another let alone from make to make yet I don’t see people banging on about that yet this one switch seems to somehow be the subject wailing and despair . Do we really want every bike and every car to be identical.

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SteveThackery
1 hour ago, Griff said:

The reason Honda did the change is clearly to accomodate the DCT paddles. Obviously then from a cost point of view it made sense to change all the switches. 

 

Correct, indeed, that seems to be why they did it.  But does that excuse them creating a non-standard switch layout?  I think standardisation of safety-related controls is important (think what driving a car would be like if the pedals and stalks were arranged however the manufacturer wanted).  

 

I think Honda should have looked for another way to provide the paddles functionality.  The obvious place would be to use a gear lever in the normal place, but just operating a pair of switches, and leave the handlebar layout unchanged.

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Rocker66
8 minutes ago, SteveThackery said:

 

Correct, indeed, that seems to be why they did it.  But does that excuse them creating a non-standard switch layout?  I think standardisation of safety-related controls is important (think what driving a car would be like if the pedals and stalks were arranged however the manufacturer wanted).  

 

I think Honda should have looked for another way to provide the paddles functionality.  The obvious place would be to use a gear lever in the normal place, but just operating a pair of switches, and leave the handlebar layout unchanged.

Working on that principle every motorcycle would need to have identical handlebar layouts with identical switches . All sat nags would have to be identical and all after market accessory switches would have to be identical and approved . Do you really want to go down that road.

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SteveThackery
47 minutes ago, Rocker66 said:

At one time the instruments on bikes were all basically the same but now they vary a lot from one model to another let alone from make to make

 

To be honest they don't vary that much at all.  Pretty well every modern bike has a digital speedo and "analogue" tacho.  Sometimes we get analogue speed indication or digital engine rpm.  But that is all.  They all have a blue mainbeam warning, a flashing indicator warning, and all the other mandatory safety-related warning indicators.  It's only the secondary stuff where the manufacturer can innovate new instrument layouts.

 

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yet I don’t see people banging on about that yet this one switch seems to somehow be the subject wailing and despair .

 

I think the reason people are still "wailing" about it is because Honda have failed to get widespread adoption of their new layout.  Unlike the indicator stalks in cars, where there was a transition period and then standardisation, there is no indication of transition or standardisation when it comes to these two handlebar switches.  The opposite seems to be true - most people other than Honda think it's a stupid idea and haven't adopted it.  Hence the ongoing complaints.

 

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Do we really want every bike and every car to be identical.

 

Straw man.  Nobody said that.  My argument is that there is a strong case for standardising the layout of all the basic and safety-critical controls, exactly as they've done with cars.  Rocker, I don't believe for a minute you'd support Honda making their twistgrips operate the other way round because "forward for faster" is more logical, or swapping the clutch lever and rear brake lever so that braking is all done from the bars and gearchanges all done with the feet.  But I could probably make a case for those.

So no, we don't want every bike to be identical.  But there's a lot to be said for making the basic controls standardised.

 

1 minute ago, Rocker66 said:

Working on that principle every motorcycle would need to have identical handlebar layouts with identical switches . All sat nags would have to be identical and all after market accessory switches would have to be identical and approved . Do you really want to go down that road.

 

Again, straw man.  Have cars done that?  No.  So why would bikes?

 

 

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