Failed - First MOT.

[nigeats 3]

I bought the NC750XA brand new, first reg, Sept 2017. Within a month the radiator failed and after a ride the coolant was spewing out amongst the steam. Local dealers replaced as one would expect. But I was obviously disappointed that this had occurred. After two years use (I use it 6 days to commute then 4 days off) I then start to find that it won't start. Battery appears flat if I don't run it for 4 or 5 days & I have to jump it via another battery source. I therefore run it stationary, in the garage, while it is not in use to keep it charged for my use when I do need to use it for my commute to work. Coming up to its 3 year registration date I booked it in to my local motorbike workshop for its MOT on the 26th Aug (not Honda authorised but DVLA registered). Not expecting any problems I received a call later in the day to be informed that it had drastically failed its MOT.  The Swing Arm was showing too much play in it and subsequently the rear tyre had severe wear & tear which therefore failed & the front tyre was on an advisory. So I asked them to replace the tyres. I also asked them to set about on rectifying the swing arm problem. The next day they call me to say that the bush in the swing arm has deteriorated and needs replacing. They cannot source it locally & so have to order it from abroad. Concerned with all of this I look into my handbook to see that the warranty is 2 years. It was serviced last year. Commuting I have clocked up no more than 7,000 miles so it hasn't had a hard life. I have been in touch with Honda UK and they have suggested compensation as I am expecting a huge bill on completion when it has passed its MOT. Honda UK have then asked me to take it to my local Authorised workshop for them to inspect it so that they can report on it back to HQ although the works will have been completed and I will only have the receipt and work ticket as my evidence that my bike has failed me. Maybe I should have taken/booked into my local authorised workshop in the first place but it is further away than my commute hence why I booked it local to me and it is legitamte in that it does not void the warranty. As I write, 11th Sept, the part for the swing arm has finally arrived at the workshop and it is now being made roadworthy again. I hope to have it back soon and then get local Honda dealer give it a 'once over' to report back to Honda HQ. If I had bought second hand then maybe I would expect such issues but I didn't and as I said earlier I am disappointed to say the least....!

[PoppetM 16,833]

I am sure others will be along to comment, sorry to hear you had so many issues. Mine was a NC750SA bought brand new in 2016. Ran it for 37,000 miles with none of the issues you faced. I commuted in all weathers so it was exposed to salt etc, bike could be left while I was on a fourteen night holiday and still start on the first press. Was sadly written off in an accident five months before she Would have needed an MoT so whether I would, have had some of the gremlins is unknown to me, but all I replaced were chains, sprockets, brake pads and tyres. 

[Slowboy 20,395]

44 minutes ago, nigeats said:

I bought the NC750XA brand new, first reg, Sept 2017. Within a month the radiator failed and after a ride the coolant was spewing out amongst the steam. Local dealers replaced as one would expect. But I was obviously disappointed that this had occurred. After two years use (I use it 6 days to commute then 4 days off) I then start to find that it won't start. Battery appears flat if I don't run it for 4 or 5 days & I have to jump it via another battery source. I therefore run it stationary, in the garage, while it is not in use to keep it charged for my use when I do need to use it for my commute to work. Coming up to its 3 year registration date I booked it in to my local motorbike workshop for its MOT on the 26th Aug (not Honda authorised but DVLA registered). Not expecting any problems I received a call later in the day to be informed that it had drastically failed its MOT.  The Swing Arm was showing too much play in it and subsequently the rear tyre had severe wear & tear which therefore failed & the front tyre was on an advisory. So I asked them to replace the tyres. I also asked them to set about on rectifying the swing arm problem. The next day they call me to say that the bush in the swing arm has deteriorated and needs replacing. They cannot source it locally & so have to order it from abroad. Concerned with all of this I look into my handbook to see that the warranty is 2 years. It was serviced last year. Commuting I have clocked up no more than 7,000 miles so it hasn't had a hard life. I have been in touch with Honda UK and they have suggested compensation as I am expecting a huge bill on completion when it has passed its MOT. Honda UK have then asked me to take it to my local Authorised workshop for them to inspect it so that they can report on it back to HQ although the works will have been completed and I will only have the receipt and work ticket as my evidence that my bike has failed me. Maybe I should have taken/booked into my local authorised workshop in the first place but it is further away than my commute hence why I booked it local to me and it is legitamte in that it does not void the warranty. As I write, 11th Sept, the part for the swing arm has finally arrived at the workshop and it is now being made roadworthy again. I hope to have it back soon and then get local Honda dealer give it a 'once over' to report back to Honda HQ. If I had bought second hand then maybe I would expect such issues but I didn't and as I said earlier I am disappointed to say the least....!

That sounds uncharacteristically bad. To be honest 7000 miles out of a rear tyre is pretty good and a bit more, say 8000 to 10000 out of a front, especially the OEM tyres.  
Also there are no bushes in the rear swinging arm. There are needle roller and ball bearings. if they are worn, it won’t be just one part that needs replacing.

This is the link to the Honda parts list with picture from Fowler’s;

https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5840068/nc750x/swing-arm

For the swing arm bearings the parts are 20, 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26. The spacers, parts 8, 9 and 10 are unlikely to need replacement. That’s £80.85 in parts to do a proper job.

 

I hope you haven’t been mugged by an unscrupulous dealer inventing work. Not saying you have, just saying I hope you haven’t. My bearings on my NC700x (it’s the same set up) were still fine when I sold it at 30,000 miles. Unless you absolutely blast it with a jet wash close to the bearing seals, I would have expected them to be fine at such a low mileage.

 

I’d be demanding the workshop doing the job gave me all the parts they replaced, after all you do own them, on the basis Honda want to see them to support your compensation claim. Any decent company would be happy to do that to assist a customer.

 

Hope that helps

Edited September 11, 2020 by slowboy

[Andy m 23,492]

Not sure which part has failed? The swing arm is on bearings not bushes. 

 

I think I'd like the removed parts handed over, because Honda warranty aren't going to like this sort of confusion. 

 

Hope there is no corrosion, these bearings need grease. Honda use very little and will often blame jet washing if there is none at all. Its often good practice to strip and grease when new, but if you aren't doing your own work you would need to tell them to do this. 

 

Brian can type faster than me! 😁

 

Good news is that the OE tyres are the biggest pile of poo ever fitted to a motorcycle. You are going to be impressed by the improvement if you switch to just about anything else. Avons and Michelin PR's work well. 

 

Andy

 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Andy m

[ChrisCB 6,660]

7000 miles over three years six days on works out at about a total commute of just over 10.5 miles a day, correct me if wrong. That's probably not enough to keep a battery healthy particularly in the winter months. Definitely ask for the old swing arm parts back for assessment, Honda aren't too generous with the grease on assembly.

[outrunner 4,457]

I think someone is taking the p**s here, my 16 plate NC 750 has  done 54000 miles on the original swingarm bearings and they are still OK. They were greased up after I took the swingarm off to get it powder coated but that was after 30 odd thousand miles. If there was so much play that it destroyed the tyre you would surely have noticed something amiss with the handling of the bike. As others have said, I would want the old parts back as proof that they were seriously knackered.

 

Andy.

[nigeats 3]

Well, thanks for your comments so far. I'm certainly no expert or that knowledgeable but I can only hope I haven't been duped but I have used the local workshop before - only last year they serviced it. It is reputable in the area and has been/was recommended by another local workshop who deal in other types of motorcycling.  I look forward to collecting my bike again along with the work ticket to get the exact reason for it failing MOT. 

[MikeBike 5,005]

18 minutes ago, slowboy said:

I’d be demanding the workshop doing the job gave me all the parts they replaced, after all you do own them, on the basis Honda want to see them to support your compensation claim. Any decent company would be happy to do that to assist a customer.

 

Hope that helps

Just what I was going to add. Those parts would be the only evidence to support the workshops claims and amount of work done and if Honda really want to look into it they'll need something to look at.

[MikeBike 5,005]

4 minutes ago, nigeats said:

Well, thanks for your comments so far. I'm certainly no expert or that knowledgeable but I can only hope I haven't been duped but I have used the local workshop before - only last year they serviced it. It is reputable in the area and has been/was recommended by another local workshop who deal in other types of motorcycling.  I look forward to collecting my bike again along with the work ticket to get the exact reason for it failing MOT. 

Call them and say to keep the parts... You dont have to make it sound like you dont trust them but "Honda want to investigate the failures and some friends of mine with a simlar bike (us) are interested too."

[DCTPaul 629]

take a print of the page in the link, when you collect the bike

so you can identify the parts with the service guy... discuss how they may of failed, wanting their in their expert opinion, so as to put the point across to Honda.

please, let us all know how it goes...

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by DCTPaul

[Rocker66 34,406]

Sorry to hear of your woes and hope that you get it sorted ok

As to your battery considering how few miles you do on each trip I would recommend a battery tender such as an optimate.

[stordz 901]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, as others have said it all seems a bit strange, hope that it all gets sorted.

 

I had three NC750S over a three year period racking up 6-7k per year and short of replacing tyres and the occasional service never had any problems.

 

[alhendo1 3,041]

That's a real shame that such a low mileage bike has developed this problem. Hopefully it'll all be sorted and fingers crossed Honda will make a decent contribution to the bill. Best of luck and keep us posted. 

[MatBin 5,080]

I bought my 2nd hand 2017 ncx earlier this year and had it MOTd 3 months after purchase with 7500 miles on the clock, it passed with no problems at all. I only use it as a toy so I ride once a week doing between 50 and 80 miles. During lockdown I kept the battery in charge using a solar charger (Oxford Optimate). 

When I bought the bike the tyres were legal but only just so I asked the dealer to put new tyres on the bike as part of the deal, looks like 7000 is about the lifespan of a rear tyre, but so much can affect tyre lif its hard to say precisely how long one will last.

Radiator fail was very unusual, but any component can fail early, seems you were a bit unlucky.

If Honda are looking to compensate you I think they are being super generous, the warranty is 2 years and your bike is now 3 years old, so way past any warranty period.

As others have said, your daily mileage does seem too low to keep the battery topped up, we had the same thing with my wife's car, short journeys kill batteries very quickly.

Using a big 750 to do 10 miles a day isn't perhaps what the bike was designed to do.

Bearing failure at your low mileage is quite unusual on an NC and I agree with others you need to establish what parts failed and get them back from the repairers.

Hope it works out ok and once it's all sorted you enjoy riding the NC again.

Edited September 12, 2020 by MatBin

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

5 minutes ago, MatBin said:

As others have said, your daily mileage does seem too low to keep the battery topped up, we had the same thing with my wife's car, short journeys kill batteries very quickly.

Using a big 750 to do 10 miles a day isn't perhaps what the bike was designed to do.

Hi

The bike is sold as a commuter, and a genuine question, will a smaller bikes battery not respond in the same way?

 

To the OP seems like you've had some bad luck. Wheel bearings, I had a set changed under warranty and the replacement set went after about 8000 miles so I replaced them, swingarm bearings and spacer shouldn't be going at that age unless it's had some really hard power wash cleaning but 7000 miles from the orignal tyres you've done really well mine were knackered at 2500 and with help from this forum I got them replaced with PR4s on warranty. On the battery front have you anything draining the battery, tracker, alarm or any other accessories if not get a battery maintainer, the way to go.

Good luck 

[MatBin 5,080]

10 minutes ago, Grumpy old man said:

Hi

The bike is sold as a commuter, and a genuine question, will a smaller bikes battery not respond in the same way?

Agreed it's a commuter, but there's commuting and there's commuting, 10 miles i.e. 5 miles each way (if that's the distance, OP needs to confirm) isn't enough on a 750, probably a C50 would be better choice.

It's a big old engine to throw over and start every 5 miles with a tiny bike battery, especially with all the other electronic stuff modern bikes have on them.

Tbh I doubt many bikes would respond well to restarts every 5 miles and a total of 10 miles per day. The engine would hardly get warm, surprised the exhaust hasnt rotted too.

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by MatBin

[Rocker66 34,406]

2 minutes ago, MatBin said:

Agreed it's a commuter, but there's commuting and there's commuting, 10 miles i.e. 5 miles each way (if that's the distance, OP needs to confirm) isn't enough on a 750, probably a C50 would be better choice.

 

Fully agree although if any main roads are involved maybe a 125 such as our CB125F. Not only more practical but a great saving in running cost.

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

13 minutes ago, MatBin said:

Agreed it's a commuter, but there's commuting and there's commuting, 10 miles i.e. 5 miles each way (if that's the distance, OP needs to confirm) isn't enough on a 750, probably a C50 would be better choice.

It's a big old engine to throw over and start every 5 miles with a tiny bike battery, especially with all the other electronic stuff modern bikes have on them.

Tbh I doubt many bikes would respond well to restarts every 5 miles and a total of 10 miles per day. The engine would hardly get warm, surprised the exhaust hasnt rotted too.

 

Time to bring back kick starters.

[MatBin 5,080]

9 minutes ago, Grumpy old man said:

Time to bring back kick starters.

Indeed. Or bump start easy on a 2 stroke (although I never had one) but I did bump my R80RT a couple of times.

[pjm 6,041]

Where are you based? Could the local climate have an influence? A smart battery charger is the solution for most modern bikes with the small batteries and high loads over short journeys then standing time.

[Tonyj 6,907]

10 minutes ago, Grumpy old man said:

Time to bring back kick starters.

or get a peddle bike :0) not really the op can have what he likes . I am on my second and commuted 5 days a week and no dramas. sounds a bit sussy . the battery will take a kicking if stopped after a short distance and the engine temp will hardly get unto spec . I would imagine  it will need more regular services due to condensation in the bike . 3/5 years a battery really . swing arm bushes ? id take somewhere else for a second opinion myself

[Mr Toad 9,022]

14 hours ago, nigeats said:

Well, thanks for your comments so far. I'm certainly no expert or that knowledgeable but I can only hope I haven't been duped but I have used the local workshop before - only last year they serviced it. It is reputable in the area and has been/was recommended by another local workshop who deal in other types of motorcycling.  I look forward to collecting my bike again along with the work ticket to get the exact reason for it failing MOT. 

 

There's another consideration about your choice of workshop. With cars you can take them to any competent garage and as long as they used proper approved parts your warranty remains intact and this is protected in law.

 

Unfortunately this law doesn't cover motorcycles for some reason. This means that if you don't get your bike serviced by a Honda dealer and things go wrong they can refuse any warranty claim.

 

I know you're out of warranty now but Honda may decide that because they didn't service the bike in the 2 year warranty period to reject any claim for compensation.

 

Good luck, I hope you get a satisfactory result. 

[Andy m 23,492]

52 minutes ago, Grumpy old man said:

Time to bring back kick starters.

There is a certain feeling of a proper ride when it starts on the kicker. Even better with a carb tickle etc. Not sure how I'll feel when all you get is the ***ing paperclip popping up and asking if you are sure followed by a faint hum as the anti-fallover fires up. Buy a classic for this though, flooded on the choke is not the way to start a day at the office. 

41 minutes ago, MatBin said:

Indeed. Or bump start easy on a 2 stroke (although I never had one) but I did bump my R80RT a couple of times.

The trick with FI is to press the starter button as you drop the clutch. In the cold, counter intuitive as it is, ignition on before the run works better. Probably current draw from headlight and pump warming it up. 

 

Andy

[MatBin 5,080]

23 hours ago, Andy m said:

There is a certain feeling of a proper ride when it starts on the kicker. Even better with a carb tickle etc. Not sure how I'll feel when all you get is the ***ing paperclip popping up and asking if you are sure followed by a faint hum as the anti-fallover fires up. Buy a classic for this though, flooded on the choke is not the way to start a day at the office. 

The trick with FI is to press the starter button as you drop the clutch. In the cold, counter intuitive as it is, ignition on before the run works better. Probably current draw from headlight and pump warming it up. 

 

Andy

My R80RT was that old it had carbs, first time I tried to bump it down carpark slope I had forgotten to turn ignition on, oops. Loads of effort to push it back up again.

[baben 11,703]

the only way my old Fanny Barnett would start when cold was with a bump start. It also helped if you removed the plug and used a pencil on it to improve the spark.