Jump to content
slowboy

Bargain Africa Twins

Recommended Posts

slowboy

I have been reading elsewhere about the number of bikes coming to the end of their 3 year PCP hitting the dealers, so I thought I’d take a look at the ATs. There are loads on auto trader for between £6.7k and £8k with plenty of choice of DCT or manual and many with full luggage for that.

If you don’t feel the need for the latest thing, that means you could have 3 for the price of a new, spec’d up one.😂😂

I’ve certainly heard of a dealer who sold 140 of them in 2016/2017 on low rate PCP getting them all back at the end of their terms when the owners found they didn’t have much value above the final payment. Now I’m sure many of those owners have gone to buy other bikes on similar arrangements, but the dealers are carrying a pretty hefty financial risk, as it’s they who have to clear the final payments, not Honda UK. Many will be going from the dealer straight into the auctions, so if you can get to one of those, there will be some serious bargains.

Edited by slowboy
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
KingJames

They have inner tubes though!

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
kayz1

My dealer has offered me the top of the range with luggage  can't remember the name of it..for silly money

when you think it is over 19grand new. This is pre-reg with one mile..DCT as well low seat chucked in for luck

Very VERY Tempted :whistle:  But again it has tubes..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
kayz1

Ow! and a PS:  looking at the new Adds yesterday for that new Forza 750 scooter..It has a little more power for next year.

I would think all NC's will be up on power then.. 57.7bhp

Share this post


Link to post
lipsee

Is this the good side to PCPs?

Share this post


Link to post
Mr Toad
2 hours ago, lipsee said:

Is this the good side to PCPs?

 

It depends how you look at it. For people like me who don't buy new bike* then it's great news. 

 

I don't think PCP can run in its current form for ever. It was a way for manufacturers to keep production numbers high by making bikes and cars that people would otherwise not be able to afford available to them. Only ssssso much a month sssssir and you can have................................

 

However, as Brian points out, it shifts the liability of what to do with the 3 year old bikes onto the dealers and the market is flooded. How long the dealers can support this remains to be seen but the current situation can't be helping. It's not just the dealers problem though, if the dealers keep offering good PCP deals it then relies on enough people signing up to keep things moving. If people stop signing up due to financial and job uncertainty the bubble will burst and the manufacturer will get dragged down.

 

* I bought my Enfield new as second hand prices were so high and with limited availability of used bikes it was a no brainer. My first new bike since the 90s and only my second since the 70s

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Trev
7 hours ago, slowboy said:

I have been reading elsewhere about the number of bikes coming to the end of their 3 year PCP hitting the dealers, so I thought I’d take a look at the ATs. There are loads on auto trader for between £6.7k and £8k with plenty of choice of DCT or manual and many with full luggage for that.

If you don’t feel the need for the latest thing, that means you could have 3 for the price of a new, spec’d up one.😂😂

I’ve certainly heard of a dealer who sold 140 of them in 2016/2017 on low rate PCP getting them all back at the end of their terms when the owners found they didn’t have much value above the final payment. Now I’m sure many of those owners have gone to buy other bikes on similar arrangements, but the dealers are carrying a pretty hefty financial risk, as it’s they who have to clear the final payments, not Honda UK. Many will be going from the dealer straight into the auctions, so if you can get to one of those, there will be some serious bargains.

 

 

As the owner of a 2016, 11k miles DCT AT I can vouch for it as a a great Winter bike option to keep you NC nice and clean for the Summer :D

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Tonyj

Trev you kill me , a 6 grand winter hack to save a 3grand nc :0) 

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Radarman

I went to Crescent Honda last week to book my Nat for 3rd annual service. I haven't noticed any used ATs but plenty of the new ones (both standard and ATAS). So either used ones are selling fast or people are not returning them when 3yr PCP is finished.

The latter was my choice as it is really fantastic bike regardless tubed tyres, 21" front wheel and whatever else you find not perfect about it.:devil:

I couldn't be bothered to remove tons of farkles too before handing the bike back so that might be another reason why she's with me ;):whistle:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
slowboy
21 minutes ago, Radarman said:

I went to Crescent Honda last week to book my Nat for 3rd annual service. I haven't noticed any used ATs but plenty of the new ones (both standard and ATAS). So either used ones are selling fast or people are not returning them when 3yr PCP is finished.

The latter was my choice as it is really fantastic bike regardless tubed tyres, 21" front wheel and whatever else you find not perfect about it.:devil:

I couldn't be bothered to remove tons of farkles too before handing the bike back so that might be another reason why she's with me ;):whistle:

They really are very good indeed. And tubes, with 21” front wheels, only makes it better.👍

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Ciaran1602

PCP in theory should benefit the riders who want new bikes every so often They're supposed to be pegged such that the Guaranteed Future Value (which is a misleading term in my view, more the "final balloon payment") is a fair whack lower than the bike's trade in value based on the mileage the bike has covered in that time frame. For example my NC750S 3 year PCP is set up that the settlement figure at the end of the 3 years, after 12,000 in total covered, is around £2500. I pay within a few pennies of £100pcm. Say you get £3000 offered at trade in. You start the next PCP with a £500 leg up compared to your last one. And on and on and on. Of course the other benefit is substantially lower monthly payments compared to straight HP.

 

However the whole issue with them is used values can only ever be speculated upon, not guaranteed (which is why the term is so horrendously misleading - its more of a guaranteed sale price to the benefit of the financier). I know when i've looked of late that my year and a half old bike with no more than 3000 miles on it has been getting trade in offers as low as £3400 (though sometimes up to as much as £4000 if it is advantageous to the dealer). There's a real risk that you get to the end of your PCP and you actually don't have the trade in equity you thought you did. It's less prevalent in the bike world as used values seem to plateau much sooner but in the car world there's a growing issue where used car values are so low that cars are not worth enough to settle their PCP at the end. In those instances if you want to trade the vehicle in, therefore title to the asset passes to the dealer, you have to pay them to take it off your hands. Or you hand the car back to the finance company and walk away, arranging a new deal after the event.

 

PCP relies on owners having disposal income enough to maintain payments and scrape enough deposit together, with any equity from the bike, to then hop up a rung either to a bigger bike or a newer model. It's also the kind of finance that bursts like a great big balloon when there's economic shocks - such as Covid and the dreaded B word.

 

Its great for used bike bargain hunters. And honestly, I won't be indulging in it again. You end up getting into a cycle of ever more expensive models just because you can. I fully intend to either pay off my GFV at the end and keep or simply hand it back and get an old Deauville or something. Uncertain futures make me cautious - and who doesn't want to be £100 up a month, eh?

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
lipsee

I have abit of a fascination with PCPs ,,,,not that I would get one,,,but it interests me  how manufacturers and dealers operate the system and work this system to there benefit.. It always buyer beware...  Anyway  I got interested in this guy on the tube   ,its about cars (or VW polo) but it could easily transfer to bike ,,,watch and learn  

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Ciaran1602

The Voluntary Termination point in there is a really good one - something a lot of people don't even know they have and even if they do know tend to misunderstand in relation to PCPs.

Edited by Ciaran1602

Share this post


Link to post
iaink

Perfect example of this, a nice 67 plate black AF with full luggage is being advertised at Victor Devines in Glasgow, only 3300 miles, £8295.

Share this post


Link to post
Trev
On 15/10/2020 at 20:57, slowboy said:

They really are very good indeed. And tubes, with 21” front wheels, only makes it better.👍

 

The 21" does make it a bit slow turning in on the faster roads but I managed to hustle mine around a (admittedly IAM) track day plenty quick enough to hang onto a (poorly) ridden GSXR750 without too much effort. I wouldn't want to try and keep up with a 'proper' Katoom rider who has traded his sportsbike for an orange brute but the AT is plenty quick enough, and handles plenty well enough, for most of us 'sensibles' on this forum.

........ still got those terrifying tubed tyres though   :D       :D :D :D :D :D :D

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Tel
21 hours ago, iaink said:

Perfect example of this, a nice 67 plate black AF with full luggage is being advertised at Victor Devines in Glasgow, only 3300 miles, £8295.

...you could buy a proper bike for that money though!...:devil::muttley:

Share this post


Link to post
riders in the storm

Not become an issue with bikes yet so much...............

 

But one of our three cars is on a PCP,  it was the easiest way to finance a great offering on a new family car in lockdown.................

 

The balloon payment, due now in 3 years and 8 months is high, which keeps the monthly payments low.......

 

Suits me fine,  but no way will I be paying the balloon payment, I will be bored to death of it by then anyway.....

 

But by then EV's will be so commonplace I can't possibly imagine anyone wanting a four year old dirty diesel SUV.

 

I suspect my dealer, or the manufacturer, whoever is bearing the risk, is going to get their fingers burnt.....

Share this post


Link to post
Trev
On 15/10/2020 at 19:30, Tonyj said:

Trev you kill me , a 6 grand winter hack to save a 3grand nc :0) 

 

It's worse than than that, it's saving a rusty 2008 Enfield and a rusty XS650 from getting salty :D

 

For me, owning a modern bike is purely about commodity and the AT falls into this category, I don't get a warm glow from a new number plate or owning 'the latest model' so don't really care how scruffy they get as they're entirely replaceable

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Tonyj

Kind of follow your logic trev and I would probably if push come to shove not be arsed to save the Enfield or possibly the yam hence I don’t have classic. I imagine both your bikes mentioned mean a lot more to you but you need the dependability of a modern machine that can take less of your time but still work without a shaman. I do have a ducati that gets the treatment which is the closest I come to a classic , it’s 8 years old :0) . I haven’t looked under the cover since last year so it may not even be there :0) . 
I am time sensitive ( still at work ) so need Products that don’t demand to much from me and hobbies to suit . Have the tools and ability but Mending or faffing is still not my favourite pastime. I would go to a pub locally and see all the old fellas swopping a 7/16th reverso thread nut for an equivalent itailian sprocket ( made up ) for a bike that looks for all intents A stunner only for it not to run right . They get their joy from fixing it . Character they call it back in the day it was unreliable. I am glad they persevere because historically they serve a purpose but Not for me , give me a bike that will take Me to the alps and back without having to become acquainted with several aa recovery men thanks 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Trev

Glad you do Tony as I don't have a clue what logic I'm following  :frantics: :D

 

The AT is the most expensive bike I've ever bought (£9k one year old, 1800 miles ex demo) by a fair wedge but, like the NC before it (also a one year old, low miles bike), I haven't formed any bond of attachment to it. It really is a superb piece of kit, I plan to keep it 'forever' and I've even taken time and pennies adding a few farkles, all small tweaks like heated grips, power distribution box, fork leg shrouds, regulator guard, etc to 'improve' it to suit my own tastes. Despite that it's not 'my' bike but one just like loads of other bods have and I could get another just like it, and probably would if it got nicked or totalled and wouldn't spare a second thought for the previous bike.

 

However many of my other bikes are 'my bikes' and if they get nicked then I'm out with the claw hammer looking for it as I want 'my bike' back not one that looks like it or a 'better' one.

 

Logic, nope, not the slightest whiff of it :D

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Mr Toad
1 hour ago, Trev said:

 

It's worse than than that, it's saving a rusty 2008 Enfield and a rusty XS650 from getting salty :D

 

For me, owning a modern bike is purely about commodity and the AT falls into this category, I don't get a warm glow from a new number plate or owning 'the latest model' so don't really care how scruffy they get as they're entirely replaceable

 

I couldn't have said it better myself Trev. 

 

When I had the NC it got used all year round while the 2009 Bonneville stayed in the garage on wet days. Now I have a 2016 BMW R1200GS and an Enfield 500 Trials, the GS is worth four times what the Enfield is worth but the GS gets ridden all year round and the Enfield kept dry. Value has nothing to do with it.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Radarman

I think it might be better bond with "your" bikes for you Trev and Mason (and others too) but to be honest none of your almost classic bikes you mentioned with a lot of chrome are not designed to be ridden in wet and salt. They are your sunny day toys for shorter rides while AT and GS are pure "workhorses". Maybe that's why your Ennie or Triumph are so special and GS and AT are just bikes.

 

The other thing is you own more than one bike: one of them is more down to earth, sensible solution while the others are just something you probably always wanted to have. Hence the latter are so special.

 

To me AT is my only bike and is like Swiss army knife: is not the best chef's knife nor the Wera screwdriver and might not be the nicest looking tool. But I'm sure it can take me reliably from point A to B doesn't matter the weather, road type/condition and distance between those points. That's why I like it very much :thumbsup:

 

Edited by Radarman
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Rocker66
17 minutes ago, Radarman said:

I think it might be better bond with "your" bikes for you Trev and Mason (and others too) but to be honest none of your almost classic bikes you mentioned with a lot of chrome are not designed to be ridden in wet and salt. They are your sunny day toys for shorter rides while AT and GS are pure "workhorses". Maybe that's why your Ennie or Triumph are so special and GS and AT are just bikes.

 

The other thing is you own more than one bike: one of them is more down to earth, sensible solution while the others are just something you probably always wanted to have. Hence the latter are so special.

 

To me AT is my only bike and is like Swiss army knife: is not the best chef's knife nor the Wera screwdriver and might not be the nicest looking tool. But I'm sure it can take me reliably from point A to B doesn't matter the weather, road type/condition and distance between those points. That's why I like it very much :thumbsup:

 

To be fair sue rode both her her XS650s all year round as did I with my XS2 I can assure you that they were certainly not sunny day toys but were in fact our only means of personal transport.

Share this post


Link to post
Radarman
15 minutes ago, Rocker66 said:

To be fair sue rode both her her XS650s all year round as did I with my XS2 I can assure you that they were certainly not sunny day toys but were in fact our only means of personal transport.

 

Fair comment Rocker.

But you and Sue are possibly the only members of this forum (at least I know) who don't have the car at all by choice. Not that I can say the same about Trev and Mason :whistle:.

Share this post


Link to post
Rocker66
4 minutes ago, Radarman said:

 

Fair comment Rocker.

But you and Sue are possibly the only members of this forum (at least I know) who don't have the car at all by choice. Not that I can say the same about Trev and Mason :whistle:.

I think you will find that there are others on here who don’t have cars.

However my point is the 650 Yamahas were practical bikes as opposed to being toys. Both Sue and I put a lot of touring miles on ours as well as using them as daily transport.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×