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baben

Clutch issue - for the CB schism

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baben

So I am heading home from Wales after four fabulous days riding coast and mountain roads, eating unsuitable food and really having a good catch up with my younger brother. Just outside Warwick, on the Fosse Way, my clutch went "odd". It felt strange and then I realised the lever was not returning to its stop after releasing it. I stopped and then found I could not feather the clutch at all - it was either disengaged, with the lever pulled, or engaged once I released it, nothing between and the lever would not come back to its stop unless I pushed it. The cable seemed fine - the problem was inside the clutch housing. Anyway, I phoned the RAC and was finally recovered home some hours later - see separate thread. And this morning the clutch seems fine again! What is going on? Tex professes himself baffled and I do not have a clue. Bike has done just over 2000 miles now and is just due its first Annual service. I throw the problem before the combined wisdom of the forum.

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Rocker66
5 minutes ago, baben said:

So I am heading home from Wales after four fabulous days riding coast and mountain roads, eating unsuitable food and really having a good catch up with my younger brother. Just outside Warwick, on the Fosse Way, my clutch went "odd". It felt strange and then I realised the lever was not returning to its stop after releasing it. I stopped and then found I could not feather the clutch at all - it was either disengaged, with the lever pulled, or engaged once I released it, nothing between and the lever would not come back to its stop unless I pushed it. The cable seemed fine - the problem was inside the clutch housing. Anyway, I phoned the RAC and was finally recovered home some hours later - see separate thread. And this morning the clutch seems fine again! What is going on? Tex professes himself baffled and I do not have a clue. Bike has done just over 2000 miles now and is just due its first Annual service. I throw the problem before the combined wisdom of the forum.

Strange. My CB500X is coming up for 10k and🤞Has not shown any clutch problems and I use a lot of clutch control. I look forward with interest to read if you have any further problems with it. 

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Andy m

Interesting and worrying. I had a ride with worse than normal fuel consumption and felt the clutch might be slipping. Since then, another 400 miles and nothing strange. 

 

Please keep us informed. 

 

Andy

Edited by Andy m

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alhendo1

Mines is a 2018 (27 months old/19500 miles) model so has a light action but not as light as the 2019 model.....I have to confess I'm no mechanic and am not sure what could be going on. I'd have started with the lever end, oiling it and the cable and checking the action  but if you say there's nothing wrong with the cable then it can't be that....probably a ridiculous idea but has it had its 600 mile oil change and if so what grade of oil?

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elbee

Years ago my daughter bought an old Hyundai Atoz as her first car (from up north with her b/f). She had a problem with the clutch that her garage couldn't fix. I took a look - where the cable came out of the cabin into the engine compartment it ran through a metal 90 degree elbow. That had worn through and the cable was taking a "short cut". Poor engineering, easy fix, crap mechanic.

 

Perhaps you cable housing has worn somewhere?

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alhendo1

2014 Clutch problem? https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,2914.0.html

Could it be something along these lines?....although the thread is an old one and you'd have thought Honda would have ironed this out.

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Gringo
5 hours ago, baben said:

And this morning the clutch seems fine again! What is going on? Tex professes himself baffled and I do not have a clue. Bike has done just over 2000 miles now and is just due its first Annual service. I throw the problem before the combined wisdom of the forum.

As it appears to be ok this morning it kind of suggests an over heating problem maybe? Maybe a change of oil is all that is required. I'd be tempted to do that and go on a long run (with a back up?) and see if the problem reoccurs? 

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Tex

From the phone conversation I had with Glen this morning I can only think of two possible scenarios. Either the internal return spring has broken or come adrift (see photo) or the bush that the clutch actuator runs on (red arrow) had seized.

 

4-F5-D27-BE-CA32-43-EC-AFDE-4-AF91-F41-D

 

The symptoms Glen described we’re the clutch lever would pull in normally, but then fail to return. Seeing how it worked OK after being allowed to cool down overnight (or while waiting for the RAC recovery ;) ) I suspect a problem in the bush (because a broken spring doesn’t heal itself overnight).

 

I am sure we would all appreciate a detailed description of what the dealer finds. 

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Argyll

 There was a report on the US forum of the possible failure of the bush which could give the symptoms described, ie loss of tension in the clutch cable.

 

" had a problem of the clutch actuator arm bushing/bearing falling off from their original location and let the arm go off center. This releases tension and moves the friction point from a bushing to the engine side case - resulting in loss of tension and after a while a failure of the oil ring at the top of the engine case"

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Tex

Looks like problems aren’t unknown on the clutch actuator of the CB500 then. That’s actually good because the dealer should know about and, importantly, how to fix it. 

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Andy m

I wish Fowlers or someone would upload the 2019 fiche. The extra light/slipper clutch changes over the model years and I am not convinced this isn't a possible cause. 

 

Andy

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Chris750
5 minutes ago, Andy m said:

I wish Fowlers or someone would upload the 2019 fiche. The extra light/slipper clutch changes over the model years and I am not convinced this isn't a possible cause. 

 

Andy

 

https://www.lingshondaparts.com/partscatalog/catalog/browse/catalog/hondamc/modelid/1535/catkey/B/

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horobags

looks like you'd better part-ex your 500's for another NC boys;)

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Andy m
29 minutes ago, Chris750 said:

Nice one, thank you. 

 

Lings don't show a 2018 X but show the F which I know is the same. The part numbers both starting 22.. and P... (I assume one is Honda and one Lings stock number) are different. I've only checked 5 clutch parts, springs, lever, judders springs* etc. but it is enough to convince me the extra light 2019 is not the same.The sixth part I checked, the oil filler cap, has the same part number on both fiches just to confirm they don't use multiple numbers for the same part. I would exercise caution in looking at/comparing problems on bikes before 2019 (X with the smaller front wheel). 

 

*Ducati and other forums have a few threads where the judder springs, basically packers behind the plates, cause problems. 

 

Lets hope the dealer finds something. 

 

Andy

Edited by Andy m
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Tex
30 minutes ago, horobags said:

looks like you'd better part-ex your 500's for another NC boys;)


Sod that for a game of soldiers! :D 
 

46 minutes ago, Andy m said:

I wish Fowlers or someone would upload the 2019 fiche. The extra light/slipper clutch changes over the model years and I am not convinced this isn't a possible cause. 

 

Andy

 

I think the differences are very small, the ‘systems’ are identical even if the parts aren’t. It’s obvious that clutch actuator problems have afflicted a small number of bikes right from the first 2014 models and it seems they still do. I don’t see it as a big deal (but it wasn’t me stuck at the roadside.. :( ).

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Tel
1 hour ago, Tex said:

Looks like problems aren’t unknown on the clutch actuator of the CB500 then. That’s actually good because the dealer should know about and, importantly, how to fix it. 

Very dependent on which dealer/mechanic you get though; years ago I bought a CBR600 from Dobles and it broke down near Pratts Bottom on the ride home, rang Dobles and they sent a van/mechanic but he couldn't sort it and returned to the shop. Kept the bike and rang me next day to say they couldn't find any fault. Collected the bike and ran it fine for several days then on my way to work at Sutton  at 90mph on the outside lane on the M25 it cut out [dead]  near the Swanley turnoff, I had to freewheel inside across 3 lanes of fast traffic and called the AA and was recovered home.

As soon as I told my mate [mechanic at Johns of Romford] he said fuel pump points! I ordered a set and he fitted them and problem solved!

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Spindizzy

Some slipper clutches have a ramp both sides such that under power it grips tighter. It means you can use much lighter springs and have a lighter lever action. Makes it susceptible to release friction in the system. If it went away after cooling it suggests to me an over close tolerance between driven and driving tangs. You could try putting it in gear with engine off and shoving bike backwards. If the clutch lever releases properly that's a sign. If it happens again try it. 

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MatBin

Interesting, I should have thought the clutch springs would have ensured a conventional clutch would have remained engaged rather than failed open. But Spindizzy has indicated a system that could cause failed open under certain circumstances.

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dave

I'm interested to know the outcome, I've just brought a CBR500R, which does not have the slipper clutch. Being old school, the modern aids take away the biking fun, the 500 range should be bullet proof. 

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Spindizzy

For those curious about how a slipper clutch works

 

slip-and-assist-clutch-Image-source-www.

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SteveThackery
On 10/17/2020 at 17:31, Spindizzy said:

slip-and-assist-clutch-Image-source-www.

 

The arrows look the wrong way round, to me.

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Andy m

Any news? 

 

Having done a long descent this morning on mud/nervous sheep byproduct/fist sized stones, second gear, ride the compression, the clutch stank and did the odd feel, possibly changed biting point type thing. I was due second breakfast so by the the time I was ready to go it was cooler and normal. Needless to say I'm now playing myself on my inbuilt dislike of the idea of the slipper clutch. 

 

Logically it made the descent with a few dabs of brake (its no 650 thumper) and this is the first time I've worked it that hard. Rode 70 miles home, no issues, so it is in my head. 

 

Andy

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poldark
10 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Any news? 

 

Having done a long descent this morning on mud/nervous sheep byproduct/fist sized stones, second gear, ride the compression, the clutch stank and did the odd feel, possibly changed biting point type thing. I was due second breakfast so by the the time I was ready to go it was cooler and normal. Needless to say I'm now playing myself on my inbuilt dislike of the idea of the slipper clutch. 

 

Logically it made the descent with a few dabs of brake (its no 650 thumper) and this is the first time I've worked it that hard. Rode 70 miles home, no issues, so it is in my head. 

 

Andy

 

Well perhaps your oversized Hobbit's feet are messing with the gear lever mechanism? 🧙‍♂️

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baben
39 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Any news? 

 

Having done a long descent this morning on mud/nervous sheep byproduct/fist sized stones, second gear, ride the compression, the clutch stank and did the odd feel, possibly changed biting point type thing. I was due second breakfast so by the the time I was ready to go it was cooler and normal. Needless to say I'm now playing myself on my inbuilt dislike of the idea of the slipper clutch. 

 

Logically it made the descent with a few dabs of brake (its no 650 thumper) and this is the first time I've worked it that hard. Rode 70 miles home, no issues, so it is in my head. 

 

Andy

I took mine out for a brief run to warm then motor so I could check the oil. It felt different but I could not say exactly how. The oil was on the low side though - just above the low level mark. When it locked up I was not long out of a crawl through the centre of Warwick. Could simple over heating be the issue? If so I am not happy!

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Andy m

Heat seems to do something but I can't put my finger on it. 

 

Andy

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