sprockets and chain replaced

[scottiedoug 126]

I had changed the chain and rear wheel sprocket (it had the wrong amount of teeth) at 18600. Now at 38990 so I reckon thats pretty good. I have the 750 DCT model. I purchased a neoprene insert front sprocket and a standard metal for the wheel and good DiD chain. The first thing to  do if you have the DCT is apply the parking brake to help loosen the front sprocket bolt (it is tight). I had to take off the hugger so  I could chock the back wheel. then I loosened the nuts for the wheel sprocket, you can get to then a couple at a time while wheel is in situ.  I could then take the split link out and get the chain out. While I had the wheel out I changed the cush drive rubbers.

fitted the new engine sprocket and replaced the bolt just by hand for the moment, put the wheel back in with the new sprocket and fed the new chain round only to find it was 2 links to long, so out with the dremel and took the links out.

New split link fitted and adjusted the chain to correct slack. I chocked the wheel again and tightened the fron sprocket bolt, the the wheel sprocket nuts  hugger back on. Job done.

 

[scottiedoug 126]

[davebike 943]

I always ad a drop of nutlock to sprocket bolts 

I would never use a clip link on a NC the current power limit fro them is 40BHP

But I a pro so should know better !

[Bugsy 175]

Nice write up scottiedoug, thanks. New C & S always feels better and often sounds smother too I find.

 

I am interested in the use or not, of split links. Having grown up with them (Bonnevilles, Honda CB750s) without issue, why are they so out of favour now? I wasn't aware of a limit (set by who?) davebike.

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

42 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

Nice write up scottiedoug, thanks. New C & S always feels better and often sounds smother too I find.

 

I am interested in the use or not, of split links. Having grown up with them (Bonnevilles, Honda CB750s) without issue, why are they so out of favour now? I wasn't aware of a limit (set by who?) davebike.

 

Calling  @Tex

Right, I’m home with a cuppa, Mrs T is clattering about in the kitchen making a pie. And Diesel is sitting at her side, ever hopeful she might drop something tasty. Or anything at all really..  

 

A little background for those unfamiliar with the arcane intricacies of the spring clip. The whole assembly that joins the two ends of the chain is the master link, which comprises of a side plate with two pins riveted through it, a removable side plate and a horseshoe shaped clip which locates in groves machined in the pins.

It was a perfectly sound method (indeed, the only method) of joining a chain right up until the late seventies when the horsepower of the emerging breed of ‘Superbikes’ made the possibility of failure a worry. The worry wasn’t entirely unfounded as a couple of high profile failures bore witness.
 

For example, in 1973 (or 74, don’t remember exactly) Kawasaki sought to publicise it’s new Z1 with some record attempts at Daytona. A team of four riders (Yvon Duhamel, Hurley Wilvert, Art Bauman and Cook Nielson from memory) were to ride two only lightly modified Z1s round the outer banked circuit for 24 hours seeking to raise the record - which at that time was still held by a 500 Velocette - to an average of 120mph. More than halfway through the attempt one bike broke a master link and, the rules of record breaking being as they are, had to stay where it was until the mechanics could get to it and fit a replacement. The delay cost that bike any chance of the record but the other one ran faultlessly to the finish.

Racers began to rivet their chains to eliminate a possible weak spot and, as we all know, anything a racer does soon finds it’s way onto road bikes but there’s really nothing wrong with a, correctly fitted, spring clip. The 500cc Paton (75 hp, 140+ mph) raced in the Classic TT by John McGuinness has a spring clip that remains with the chain for life, being removed and re-used as often as necessary.

To correctly assemble a master link you need to lubricate both pins with a heavy duty grease before sliding them through the ends of the chain. The removable side plate should be a tight(ish) fit over the pins and be pushed fully ‘home’. Then the spring clip is fitted (closed end facing the direction of travel) by sliding it into place. It’s essential not to try and lever the open ends apart.

 

When a master link fails it’s normally because the spring clip has, somehow, gone awol and that allows the removable side plate to work it’s way off the pins and then the chain parts..  

 

There are three ways (finally we get to the point!  ) to secure a spring clip. All require that the side plate and the clip be properly clean. One is to put a dab of silicone (ordinary ‘household’ stuff, the sort you might use to seal plumbing) on the side plate before fitting the clip. The silicone is sticky and tends to ‘glue’ the clip in place. Another method is to assemble the clip onto a, scrupulously clean, side plate then put a generous dab of enamel paint over both. Leave to dry overnight and not only does the paint stick the clip and side plate together but it provides an early warning of possible failure by visibly cracking. The last method is the one we use on the racers. Assemble up the master link, fit the clip and then loop a thin wire (household fuse wire is fine) around the centre of the removable side plate and the clip and twist the ends together until it’s tight. 

Most bikes fitted with standard (ie not O ring) chains will used a spring clip. Most O ring chains are riveted. Each remain totally relevant. 

 

Hope that helps, Lloyd?

 

THE ABOVE ARE THE WISE WORDS OF, TEX,

 

And Tex is the man.

 

Lloyd

Edited October 23, 2020 by Grumpy old man

[Spindizzy 7,109]

Can I add to the gospel according to St Tex.....

 

After installing the link, gently using a screwdriver ease the side plate out so it is fully against the clip (without loading it).  Not all side plates sit in the right place after you squeeze it on.

 

 

[davebike 943]

The 40 bhp sujestedlimit came from a rep selling did  and I think  is somewhere in DID paperwork 

I was a mechanic at the end of the 1970's and we saw a lot of chaines come off dud to the clip link failingor being poorly fitted few cased much daamage but those that did was horrid few locked wheels and a few smashd cases

I rather "gun shy" re chaines havingseen a few issues there at least a few makes I will not fit for customers neer had a leagal issue but was taught to "think how you explain you actions to the coriner" !!

Clip links do fail not often but I never use one on a bike over125 I entended to ride !  OK i have the tools just forked ove £100 for a new DID rivet tool (they last 5 years in the workshop !

THe idea of silicon sound OK  but I not do it myself remember the first thing I get is "you should no better"!

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

15 minutes ago, Spindizzy said:

Can I add to the gospel according to St Tex....

We are blessed on this forum, not only 'Tex' but lots of very experienced bikers willing to spread their knowledge. 

Thanks All

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

12 minutes ago, davebike said:

The 40 bhp sujestedlimit came from a rep selling did  and I think  is somewhere in DID paperwork 

I was a mechanic at the end of the 1970's and we saw a lot of chaines come off dud to the clip link failingor being poorly fitted few cased much daamage but those that did was horrid few locked wheels and a few smashd cases

I rather "gun shy" re chaines havingseen a few issues there at least a few makes I will not fit for customers neer had a leagal issue but was taught to "think how you explain you actions to the coriner" !!

Clip links do fail not often but I never use one on a bike over125 I entended to ride !  OK i have the tools just forked ove £100 for a new DID rivet tool (they last 5 years in the workshop !

THe idea of silicon sound OK  but I not do it myself remember the first thing I get is "you should no better"!

I can't help think for the DIY biker that a correctly placed link ( which isn't difficult) is safer than a badly riveted link.

On another note and speaking for myself,  I very rarely use the 53 hp that the NC has to offer if I was gunning it all the time then I would consider having a riveter and if my local supplier could provide an endless  chain then that would be ideal because I remove the swing arm to replace chain and sprockets so that it gives me the chance to grease the swing arm.

I also noticed that the RE Himalayan has a spring link fitted from new.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Grumpy old man

[Andy m 23,501]

The 40 HP figure to me could very well be arrived at by committee. Engineers will give a short number and long details of what that applies to. A single hammering away in sand at 40HP is not a 60HP triple on the motorway. A BMW F650 with the same chain size as a CB250 means someone is not at the limit. The rep selling to workshops wants spring clips banned. The rep selling to M&P, Wemoto etc. doesn't. Supply chain want rid of the extra variant. The accountants look at margins. The risk lawyers want DIY banned first, then the workshops, then motorcycles, then people. Marketing want to know why they can't find said clip on Beebo.... The Engineers number is higher than 40HP.

 

I've had one failure in 30 years. The Enfield OE chain failed at a rivet, the clip was in place. Simple bad workmanship. 

 

Lloyd is spot on, better a correctly fitted clip than badly done rivet. You can also carry a spare clip link if going up the desert. 

 

I'm lucky, I struggle to find much over 50HP that interests me. The CB will get a clip when I've worn out the OE chain. 

 

Andy

[janvda 21]

I think the EK chains with screw-on links are great for the DIY-er too

[Spindizzy 7,109]

I never thought about the paint method to stick the clip as an extra security. Will do that when I change my chain, which isn't long for this world.

 

I have heard another tip that is the clip is stamped out when made, so has a slightly rounded edge one side and sharp the other. The opinion was that having the sharp edge outward was preferred. I offer no evidence that it makes any difference either way.

 

 

[Andy m 23,501]

Nail polish is an alternative to the paint. 

 

The Saturday Girl in Wilco's was so impressed that I went for the black 😁 Told her it matched my heart 🖤😁😁😂😁. 

 

Andy

[Grumpy old man 4,673]

11 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Nail polish is an alternative to the paint. 

 

The Saturday Girl in Wilco's was so impressed that I went for the black 😁 Told her it matched my heart 🖤😁😁😂😁. 

 

Andy

I used white enamel on mine, stands out like a sore thumb, so most the time when just walking towards the bike it catches your eye, which h can't be a bad thing.

[Spindizzy 7,109]

I have a tin of bright yellow smoothrite perfect for the task 

[MatBin 5,080]

7 hours ago, Andy m said:

Nail polish is an alternative to the paint. 

 

The Saturday Girl in Wilco's was so impressed that I went for the black 😁 Told her it matched my heart 🖤😁😁😂😁. 

 

Andy

.

Edited October 23, 2020 by MatBin

[usabikes 440]

I have read that the spring clip itself these days is of a convex/concave design and should be fitted so that the bow pushes the middle of the link out towards you before pushing it home, flat. Just fitted a no-ring chain with clip link to the Himalayan but cannot recall if it was convex or flat. An el-cheapo no-ring chain is just another reason I like the Himalayan, cheap to feed!

 

Tex's suggestion of a bit of lock wire or similar is a good one as it seems easiest to get the link off when needed eh?

 

Frankly I think they're having us on with this measly HP limit too, when you think we used to run them on heavy bikes with a lot more than 40HP back in the 70's and being young we didn't exactly nurse them. Technology & build quality can only have improved in 40 years one would think.

[Torquepen 81]

I’ve just fitted a new chain & sprockets to my 700s & using a spring clip for the second time & not had any problems. 

 I use a 42T on the rear rather than 43. The bike doesn’t need to rev quite so high